So what do people think of the legitimacy of this toning?

Myqqy · October 7, 2006 2:54PM

I'm curious what folks think of this one...

TwoSides2aCoin · October 7, 2006 3:01PM

It looks legitimate to me, even if I don't like toners. I don't base my decision on plastic or the seller as both are legitimate, but by the looks of the coin itself.

Mrpawn · October 7, 2006 3:05PM

That coin would be welcome inmy collection

FatMan · October 7, 2006 3:06PM

AT

Bruceswar · October 7, 2006 3:28PM

Personally I like the colors, but I am not sure if they are real. I am hopping Braddick can shed some light on the coin as to how it looks in hand.

mcheath · October 7, 2006 3:31PM

its that same ms70 at blue copper that peac**k (the sensors wont let me put the name of the seller) coins has been selling for months, there are many threads about it

WoodenJefferson · October 7, 2006 3:50PM

Maybe it's "camera glare" from the breast feathers?

RB means Red Brown...right?

LincolnCentMan · October 7, 2006 4:01PM

I would hypothesize that that coin has a similar origin to the purple proof indians..

David

Dog97 · October 7, 2006 4:01PM

Bored & stirring chit on Sat night huh?

I think that’s one of them there coins what done had that there sticky stuff what they call licker removed from it thus removing a light diffusing substance that wasn’t letting the true iridescent & vibrant color show thru which were there all along. NT

But wait, grandpa likkered his coins to prevent them from tarnishing. He never likkered tarnished coins. AT

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 cleaner and retoned naturally so it’s NT.

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 in an intent to make it tone so it’s blatant AT.

And the Legend lady said to avoid blue Proof copper so it must be AT.

But it’s in a reputable tpg holder so it must be NT.

The guy selling it is a police officer. We can trust the police. NT

Seller is trusted board member. NT

Seller has been known for shenanigans. AT

They say we can’t judge a coin from an internet image. Hmmm..that could mean NT or AT.

If it’s pretty and you like it, who cares if it’s AT.

Hell, I don’t know what to think or who to trust nowdays. I’m so confused!

stman · October 7, 2006 4:20PM

I'll go with what Dizzy has to say about it.

Dog97 · October 7, 2006 4:27PM

I'm going with what stman has to say about it.

lava · October 7, 2006 4:30PM

BALCO........................................BALCO.....................................BALCO.............................................BALCO.........................................

As real as the numbers put up by Barry Bonds.

No surprise this came from NGC.

Bull sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Thank you, I'll pass. YOU pay the premium for this pile of goo.

lava · October 7, 2006 4:32PM

ps - I like Pat, and he is ok in my book. So, Like the seller, not the coin.

Boom · October 7, 2006 4:55PM

If the seller has a no strings attatched return policy and good feedback, go for it if you like it.

If it turns out to be juiced or saturated and you find that you don't like it, send it back for a refund.

I think it's pretty and haven't checked who the seller is but I know nothing about Copper.

Whatever floats your boat.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 7, 2006 5:06PM

this one is illegitimate it ain't in plastic. That's why it's only a dollar

it's raw ~

RYK · October 7, 2006 5:15PM

<< Bored & stirring chit on Sat night huh?

I think that’s one of them there coins what done had that there sticky stuff what they call licker removed from it thus removing a light diffusing substance that wasn’t letting the true iridescent & vibrant color show thru which were there all along. NT

But wait, grandpa likkered his coins to prevent them from tarnishing. He never likkered tarnished coins. AT

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 cleaner and retoned naturally so it’s NT.

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 in an intent to make it tone so it’s blatant AT.

And the Legend lady said to avoid blue Proof copper so it must be AT.

But it’s in a reputable tpg holder so it must be NT.

The guy selling it is a police officer. We can trust the police. NT

Seller is trusted board member. NT

Seller has been known for shenanigans. AT

They say we can’t judge a coin from an internet image. Hmmm..that could mean NT or AT.

If it’s pretty and you like it, who cares if it’s AT.

Hell, I don’t know what to think or who to trust nowdays. I’m so confused! >>

Best analysis yet!

Here is how I would approach it:

If the price is right (or money is no object), you like the look, and you are not afraid of it, buy it, own it, and enjoy it.

If the coin is expensive, it looks strange and unlike all of the other similar coins that you have ever seen, and you are afraid or have some doubt, PASS!

FullStrike · October 7, 2006 5:42PM

AT, NT who cares as long as it looks pleasing to my bored eyes. Heck AT one in the style of Peter Max and you'll get Max Dollars for it. Bring me some Chinese counterfeit Coins and as long as they look good .... well.. who could tell anyways.

seemyauction · October 7, 2006 8:09PM

I can't give an accurate opinion on color....I'm color blind....but the detail is nice and I need that one.....

seemyauction · October 7, 2006 8:18PM

Just curious had my son look at the colors....in this case does the RB stand for Red Blue? lol

ABC123 · October 7, 2006 9:30PM

Beautiful AT*

notwilight · October 7, 2006 9:49PM

People just refuse to accept that you can't tell AT from NT by looking at them. Tarnish is Tarnish, no matter what caused it. Ick--he used the T word. Yes, toning is just tarnish. On copper perhaps we should call it patina....

So everyone gives their opinion. Opinions are like a lot of other things you can name--everybody has one. Some are right some are wrong. I have to compliment the posters on this thread. Nobody took their opinion and put "definitely" in front of it to make it sound stronger. Nobody can know "definitely" except the person who AT'd it--if it is AT. But as one good post above pointed out, the opinions are usually based on other indicators besides what the coin looks like.

Anybody ever had a DUI ticket? I had one years ago during the peak of the MADD phenemon. I was borderline, caught at a checkpoint, no evidence of bad driving. I've since figured out that my pupils will indicate drunk on some informal test the give even when sober so I'm careful not to drive after even one drink now.

With a clean record and a good attorney, I might have gotten a break. But as I went thru the process, it became obvious that the deck was stacked on the side of the prevailing public opinion: lock up these drunk a**holes. Nobody cared about the facts--heck, the Assistant DA glossed over them and spent all his time on emotional issues--basicly with DUI you're much closer to guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around because of the the emotional furor over the high profile cases (headline: Drunk driver Kills high school cheerleader and honor student")...

So why the long and boring story? Coin toning is a lot like drunk driving right now. There is a lot of emotional negativity about it. Even small time operators like MOC caused a huge uproar here on the boards. Whenever society decides to rid itself of an evil, we lower the height of the bar for the burden of proof until justice is compromised. I've been on jury duty several times over the past few years and I'm convinced that we are locking up innocent people for drunk driving. Other examples that come to mind are Japanese internment camps during WWII and the guys who want don't trust anybody on ebay because of a few bad apples.

Now many of you will want to debate that this is fine--it ok to fail conservatively to protect us from drunk drivers, possible internal threats, or scammers on ebay. Maybe it is. I wouldn't argue with you and that point is irrelevant to my logic here.

My point is that in all the excitement over AT, we are probably calling more NT coins AT rather than vice versa.

As for this coin. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know.

--Jerry

RichieURich · October 8, 2006 2:50AM

I agree with Dog97!

Baley · October 8, 2006 3:00AM

If someone likes the appearance of this 2 cent piece, they might also enjoy the 3 blue proof Lincolns also being sold.

labrams · October 8, 2006 3:02AM

It looks like a Photoshop job to me, sorry. I am NOT a toning expert so take what I say with a big grain of salt. I *am* a Photoshop expert, tho, and whoa, that is way too blue.

Edited to add: Will you ever please stop making all of us load your 50K+ photo of the albino ferret, please.

MikeKing · October 8, 2006 4:40AM

I wouldn't buy any copper with blue or purple

Russ · October 8, 2006 4:50AM

I thought that Two Center had been listed and sold before?

Russ, NCNE

TomB · October 8, 2006 4:54AM

Well, based upon the seller's history and the fact that the 1914 matte proof Lincoln being offered is the Child's example that was sold by Heritage earlier this year but that looks nothing like it did when sold by Heritage, I give the coin a big fat AT.

dizzyfoxx · October 8, 2006 4:58AM

<< I'll go with what Dizzy has to say about it.

>>

NT, period.

TUMUSS · October 8, 2006 5:07AM

<< ...they might also enjoy the 3 blue proof Lincolns also being sold. >>

What are the odds...huh.

goose3 · October 8, 2006 5:11AM

no way they are AT....they've probably been "Conserved".

but, but it's a highly respected board member.......(to borrow an Stman phrase)

MrScience · October 8, 2006 5:20AM

Speaking of those proof Lincolns for sale, this is kinda sad IMO. Better living through chemistry?

stman · October 8, 2006 5:50AM

<< no way they are AT....they've probably been "Conserved".

but, but it's a highly respected board member.......(to borrow an Stman phrase)

>>

Goose it's "respected" board member. I recently found out that people take the meaning different if it's in quotes. Heh heh

Dog97 · October 8, 2006 5:55AM

So stman...are you still with what "dingy" says? (notice your mentioned quotes) Cause if you are me & RichieURich need to change our opinions.

ricko · October 8, 2006 6:05AM

Those who fail to listen to TomB, are doomed to their own error prone decisions. Tom is one of the true experts on this forum... and when he gives an opinion, you would be wise to listen. Cheers, RickO

stman · October 8, 2006 6:27AM

<< So stman...are you still with what "dingy" says? (notice your mentioned quotes) Cause if you are me & RichieURich need to change our opinions. >>

Naw, he never questions a slabbed coin. And then he adds the "period."

09sVDB · October 8, 2006 6:38AM

I like the seller(very trusted here) but not the look of the coin.

RedneckHB · October 8, 2006 9:10AM

I always wanted to know what the 1910 and 1913 looked like from that same submission.

Just go and browse the Heritage archives if you want to know what these coins looked like a few months ago.

dragon · October 8, 2006 10:09AM

In my opinion the color on that coin is phoney baloney and the clear result of being chemically treated.

Of course it's holdered by NGC, so obviously I must be completely off base and not know what I'm talking about.

grip · October 8, 2006 10:21AM

I'll go along with Tom-B and a few others,and me,AT'd.

Al

MikeKing · October 8, 2006 2:33PM

the best collections are built through patience ... and knowledge.
Unfortunately the two of them are tedious processes that can only exist with discipline.
There are many other beautiful 2C pieces out there with lovely patination which wouldn't be questioned as such and therefore, in my mind, worth waiting for.

DenverDave · October 8, 2006 8:30PM

<< Well, based upon the seller's history and the fact that the 1914 matte proof Lincoln being offered is the Child's example that was sold by Heritage earlier this year but that looks nothing like it did when sold by Heritage, I give the coin a big fat AT. >>

<< I always wanted to know what the 1910 and 1913 looked like from that same submission.
Just go and browse the Heritage archives if you want to know what these coins looked like a few months ago. >>

Perhaps someone could enlighten the board and post "before & after" photos...?

PS... My search of Heritage did not bring up the coins in question...

IrishMike · October 8, 2006 9:08PM

Sigh, looks like another victim of the chase for the almighty dollar.

braddick · October 9, 2006 12:08AM

<< 

<< Well, based upon the seller's history and the fact that the 1914 matte proof Lincoln being offered is the Child's example that was sold by Heritage earlier this year but that looks nothing like it did when sold by Heritage, I give the coin a big fat AT. >>

<< I always wanted to know what the 1910 and 1913 looked like from that same submission. Just go and browse the Heritage archives if you want to know what these coins looked like a few months ago. >>

Perhaps someone could enlighten the board and post "before & after" photos...? PS... My search of Heritage did not bring up the coins in question... >>

Before:

After:

IGWT · October 9, 2006 12:53AM

The 1914 1c sold for $750 w/ juice at CSNS in April when it was graded PF65. Now it's graded PR66 with a star and sitting at the top of the pop charts.

Newmismatist · October 9, 2006 1:13AM

<< Bored & stirring chit on Sat night huh?

I think that’s one of them there coins what done had that there sticky stuff what they call licker removed from it thus removing a light diffusing substance that wasn’t letting the true iridescent & vibrant color show thru which were there all along. NT

But wait, grandpa likkered his coins to prevent them from tarnishing. He never likkered tarnished coins. AT

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 cleaner and retoned naturally so it’s NT.

No wait, I think it was cleaned with MS-70 in an intent to make it tone so it’s blatant AT.

And the Legend lady said to avoid blue Proof copper so it must be AT.

But it’s in a reputable tpg holder so it must be NT.

The guy selling it is a police officer. We can trust the police. NT

Seller is trusted board member. NT

Seller has been known for shenanigans. AT

They say we can’t judge a coin from an internet image. Hmmm..that could mean NT or AT.

If it’s pretty and you like it, who cares if it’s AT.

Hell, I don’t know what to think or who to trust nowdays. I’m so confused! >>

Dog97 has said it all!

Myqqy · October 9, 2006 3:16AM

If it’s pretty and you like it, who cares if it’s AT.

I think that settles it.....

TWQG · October 9, 2006 5:43AM

Nice laquer.

JustGotRipped · October 9, 2006 5:50AM

<< I'm curious what folks think of this one...

>>

Ill say what i say to all these questions....If you feel comfortable paying multiples for a coin which coul dbe AT...go for it.

keets · October 9, 2006 6:07AM

i fail to understand how anyone can conceivably think that the "After" coin isn't AT, even without the knowledge of how it looked in the "Before" picture. i've been fooled in the past but that coin shouldn't fool anbody, though it will.

shame on you Pat, you're building up some bad kharma that'll bite you in the ass some day.

Dog97 · October 9, 2006 7:00AM

Man, the opinions are all over the place on this one. Looks like the overwhelming majority thinks AT. 3 NT vs 17 AT; 4 that don't care; 4 that don't have a clue but would probably like to learn; and several that are just plain retarded.

I'll replay some of the best ones:

FOR “NT”:
TwoSides2aCoin <<<It looks legitimate to me>>> Look again.
dizzyfoxx <<<NT, period.>>> Heil herr commandant!!

IT'S “AT”:
mcheath <<<its that same ms70 at blue copper>>> Probably.
RYK <<<Here is how I would approach it:
If the coin is expensive, it looks strange and unlike all of the other similar coins that you have ever seen, and you are afraid or have some doubt, PASS!>>> Good advice!
TomB <<<based upon the seller's history and the fact that the 1914 matte proof Lincoln being offered is the Child's example that was sold by Heritage earlier this year but that looks nothing like it did when sold by Heritage, I give the coin a big fat AT.>>>Picts posted, pattern same, colors different cause pict souped up. Inconclusive. 2¢ issue here, not 1914 Lincoln.

THINKS “AT” BUT DON'T ACTUALLY SAY IT:
LincolnCentMan <<>>Birds of a feather flock together.
MikeKing <<>> Good idea, so they say.

SAYS “AT” THEN APOLOGIZES FOR SAYING IT:
lava <<<BALCO........................................BALCO.....................................BALCO.............................................BALCO.........................................
ps - I like Pat, and he is ok in my book. So, Like the seller, not the coin.>>>
Suckup.

DON'T CARE IF IT'S “AT” AS LONG AS IT'S PRETTY & THEY LIKE IT:
Mrpawn <<<That coin would be welcome inmy collection>>>
Boom <<<go for it if you like it....I think it's pretty>>>
RYK <<<Here is how I would approach it:
If the price is right...you like the look, and you are not afraid of it, buy it, own it, and enjoy it.>>>
Whatever.

DON'T HAVE A CLUE:
Bruceswar <<<Personally I like the colors, but I am not sure if they are real.>>>
Boom <<>>
notwilight <<<As for this coin. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know.>>>
labrams <<<sorry. I am NOT a toning expert so take what I say with a big grain of salt.>>>
Thanks for your honesty!

BLIND & CONFUSED:
Dog97 <<<I’m so confused!>>>
seemyauction <<>>Check the new braille slabs.

AGREEING WITH SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN BEEN SAID YET:
stman <<<I'll go with what Dizzy has to say about it.>>>
Dog97 <<<I'm going with what stman has to say about it.>>>
RichieURich <<>>
Retards.

FOR THE RECORD
I knew (ok, possibly thought it might be) it was AT as soon as I saw it. Why? Never mind the recent threads, replies to this thread, who the seller or TPG is. Look it TECHNICALLY & not emotionally; the tone is too perfect. Original tone is rarely perfect, it has spots, blemishes, splotchs etc. Look at Child's coin above. Especially after 134 years on a highly reactive metal like copper. Look at the color progression; same even color; if it developed over years in an album it would progress from darker to lighter from the peripheral inward, not remain the same. On the obv, the color would move gradually across the motto, not start at the rim, jump the motto then land in the middle of the wreath. Colors float on surface, colors not right inside letters. If it was in an album exposed to sulphur & chemicals from the paper manufacturing process long enough to turn it dark blue it is highly unlikely that there would be full mint bloom red immediately adjacent to the dark blue, there would be some deminishing of the mint bloom.

You don’t buy that? So ok then, what if it wasn't in an album but a coin envelope? Then it would be really splotchy from where the surface was in direct contact with the paper in areas.

It's really simple, one does not have to be a rocket scientist or have a PHD in chemistry to understand it.

RedneckHB · October 9, 2006 11:52AM

Everyone should have known the color of the 1914 MPL was altered as it was shown in previous threads.

I saw the coin in hand after the color was changed. The Ebay photos are a very accurate representation of the coin. The photos of the 2c are also accurate as I also saw that coin in hand.

The Heritage description of the 1914 MPL say it has apple green toning. Who stole the apple?

So what do people think of the legitimacy of this toning?

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