How do the Coin Vault Guys NOT get sued

JapanJohn · September 17, 2006 7:38PM

First time I ever watched and they are selling a 2005 Silver Eagle for $399. They're really building up the "First Strike" thing as well but that pales in comparison to the fact that they're saying "once these are gone, where will you ever get another one". A 2005 Silver Eagle!!!!! Just about anywhere I guess.

At some point I have to figure that an educated consumer is going to get smart and realize they've been had.

Is this just a fact that they are "good salesmen" with "good hype" or is this out and out deception.

John

MrKelso · September 17, 2006 7:41PM

The red label NGC MS70 1st Strike on the screen right now is $279.98 earlier in the year they were selling that same coin for $999.98

JapanJohn · September 17, 2006 7:43PM

OMG! Now the guy is touching the face of a bunch of Morgan Dollars. They're awfully shiny as well. Perhaps they took a trip through the bath.

I can't believe how he's handling these things. Perhaps he knows something we don't.

John

Outhaul · September 17, 2006 7:44PM

Who the hell is the loudmouth on the coin vault who thinks he's an authority on coins? He was the same way when he was hawking baseball cards on the HSN. All the shills on the shopping networks should be taken out and summarily shot.

MrKelso · September 17, 2006 7:46PM

This show is a rerun that is approx a week old. Those Morgans Are crap.

$17.00 a Morgan should be more like $8.00 for each Morgan.

dorkkarl · September 17, 2006 7:52PM

summarily shot? for doing something perfectly legal in america, this person should be shot? how does that statement make YOU look?

K S

SportsModerator · September 17, 2006 8:36PM

Without their help, my gold plated and colorized state quarter sets would not be at the advanced level they have achieved.

Try getting that sort of service from Mark Feld..............Ha!

Outhaul · September 17, 2006 8:44PM

<< Without their help, my gold plated and colorized state quarter sets would not be at the advanced level they have achieved.

Try getting that sort of service from Mark Feld..............Ha! >>

Everyone knows what a joke CV is...well, most everyone...

BAJJERFAN · September 17, 2006 8:53PM

<< How do the Coin Vault Guys NOT get sued >>

I guess the answer would be because no one sues them.

Here in Ioway there is a movement afoot to bring a class-action lawsuit against Microsoft for overcharging for their products and or monopolizing the market. Yet these turds at HSN can rip folks off no problemmo. In both cases the decision to purchase is optional on the part of the consumer.

sinin1 · September 17, 2006 8:57PM

I hope not - they are the only source I have found for my platinum state quarter collection

MrKelso · September 17, 2006 11:07PM

<< Without their help, my gold plated and colorized state quarter sets would not be at the advanced level they have achieved.

Try getting that sort of service from Mark Feld..............Ha! >>

BillJones · September 17, 2006 11:39PM

A lot of coin dealers have gotten in trouble for saying some of the things that the guys on HSN say all the time, like “What a great investment these coins are!” One of the ways that they get around the law is to package the coins in the boxes and other types of holders. Apparently the Federal Trade Commission has ruled that they are not in a position to criticize the price of HSN offerings because it’s difficult to place a fair value on the “package” of coin combined with a special custom holder.

A lot of coin dealers have gotten in trouble for saying some of the things that the guys on HSN say all the time, like “What a great investment these coins are!” One of the ways that they get around the law is to package the coins in the boxes and other types of holders. Apparently the Federal Trade Commission has ruled that they are not in a position to criticize the price of HSN offerings because it’s difficult to place a fair value on the “package” of coin combined with a special custom holder.

I was watching them in action last night. One of their favorite lines is, “Where are you going to find these coins once the mint stops selling them?” They also go on the denigrate coin dealers who often sell items like Proof sets in “beat-up holders. Our holders are all pristine!”

One other gimmick is that they love to talk about the average cost of the group of coins they sell, like a run of Proof sets from 1960 to 2000. “Look for $25 a piece you get all of these coins, and down here on the bottom row from 1996 to 1999 these sets (all of them the clad version) retail for as much as $100 each!” Of course they don’t tell you that some of the sets from the ‘60s, 70’s and ‘80s have a retail value of 8 or 9 bucks. And they fail to mention that the WHOLESALE price of their "$100 sets" is often less than $50.

The whole thing is a load of hype. Let’s hope that not too many would be collectors get turned off to the hobby after they find out that they have been had!

Edited to add that they were selling PDS sets of state quarters. Of course they had gone through any of them see if any of the rare die varieties were in there like the Wisconsin and Minnesota pieces. They made it almost sound like they are running a lottery, but of course they never said that any of those coins were AMONG the coins they were selling either.

Newb · September 17, 2006 11:39PM

What the heck is a Missoula dollar anyway? I did a brief search last night and couldn't find anything of significance.

Coxe · September 18, 2006 3:14AM

My guess is:

(1) They are careful to walk the line where they technically do not lie but deceive.

(2) They probably staffed intimidating lawyers even before they staffed persuasive salesmen and are ready for most mom and popconfrontations.

(3) The consumers that are likely to buy from them are among the most legally handicapped in the nation. They are more likely to threaten to kill them than to sue them as their knee jerk reaction, thus setting up a natural settlement (drop the criminal charge to drop the civil charges).

flaminio · September 18, 2006 3:16AM

How come the Coin Posse™ doesn't take action against these guys?

Leiana · September 18, 2006 3:19AM

I don't know if what they do is technically illegal, deceptive sure, but illegal? I don't think so.

If they were selling counterfeits and representing them as the real thing, then sure that would be very illegal.

From what I have seen of their show, it is simply capitalism at its worst.

-Amanda

BillJones · September 18, 2006 3:22AM

<< I don't know if what they do is technically illegal, deceptive sure, but illegal? I don't think so.

If they were selling counterfeits and representing them as the real thing, then sure that would be very illegal.

From what I have seen of their show, it is simply capitalism at its worst.

-Amanda >>

The trouble is, Amanda, as soon as they start talking about their coins as "great investments" they are thin ice. At least that's what happened to a lot of coin dealers who said that in the 1980s. The Federal Trade Commission got after them big time.

And when you have the nerve to call gold plated state quarters "a great great investment opportunity" as I heard them do one night, for most dealers the feds would be knocking on their doors.

Leiana · September 18, 2006 3:29AM

<< The trouble is, Amanda, as soon as they start talking about their coins as "great investments" they are thin ice. At least that's what happened to a lot of coin dealers who said that in the 1980s. The Federal Trade Commission got after them big time.

And when you have the nerve to call gold plated state quarters "a great great investment opportunity" as I heard them do one night, for most dealers the feds would be knocking on their doors. >>

I suppose I am having difficulty wrapping my brain around the notion that people would take investment advice from someone trying to sell them something on the television.

I am not up on the FTC's policies on investment fraud (the f word!

), but I would suspect that an investment return is not guarenteed in writing by the Coin Vault folks.

Sure, calling those things an investment is way off base, but they are trying to sell something.

-Amanda

BillJones · September 18, 2006 3:34AM

People have been hooked on boiler-room phone operations for many years. Perhaps you would not spend thousands of dollars on a “investment” that was offered to you via a “cold call” over the phone, but it happens enough for those operations to continue. Just tell some body that they have a chance to “make a killing” by “getting in on the ground floor,” you will find there are still fools out there.

mrearlygold · September 18, 2006 3:41AM

How do they not get arrested and shut down for what appears to simply be shady rip off scams is a mystery.

sweetwilliet · September 18, 2006 3:41AM

The trouble is, Amanda, as soon as they start talking about their coins as "great investments" they are thin ice. At least that's what happened to a lot of coin dealers who said that in the 1980s. The Federal Trade Commission got after them big time.

If they tell you they are great investments, that is just an opinion, just like the word great can mean better than spending the money on a bunch of M&Ms, which will have no retail value in 20 years (I hope). Buyer beware, but a fool and his money are soon parted.

ARCO · September 18, 2006 3:45AM

Why do some people pay $1,600.00 for a handbag from Vivendi bought from a store on Rodeo Drive, Beverly Hills. While another buys just as useful a handbag from Wal-mart for $16.99?

The answer is marketing.

rec78 · September 18, 2006 3:45AM

At some point I have to figure that an educated consumer is going to get smart and realize they've been had.

The educated consumer is already smart and does not buy from coin vault.

I think that the types of buyers they get are the gift giving crowd. You know "my husband collects coins but i don't know anything about them so i will buy them for him as a gift" Or for a Graduation gift for a coin collector---What is the gift recipient supposed to do when they get such a gift --get mad? i don't think so, in most cases they just smile and say "thank you".

BobGreene · September 18, 2006 5:45AM

<< How come the Coin Posse™ doesn't take action against these guys? >>

Coin Posse? Another urban Legend!

LastExitInNY · September 18, 2006 6:29AM

they all sound like crooks

LastExitInNY · September 18, 2006 6:29AM

too bad they dont allow live call ins

BillJones · September 18, 2006 6:35AM

<< too bad they dont allow live call ins >>

Oh, but I've seen them have those ....

From fools who called in to tell them what great job they were doing, how much money they had made from buying coins from them (on paper of course) and what great bargains they found at Shop at Home.

MrKelso · September 18, 2006 6:38AM

<< What the heck is a Missoula dollar anyway? I did a brief search last night and couldn't find anything of significance. >>

I think some Bank in Missoula Closed down and the owner called Robert and sold him bags of these crappy Dollars that are worth $8.6256 at todays silver spot and Coin Vault turns around and sells them for Like $17.00 a coin if you buy them by the roll plus S&H So thats 2 times Melt value at todays Spot on silver.

I wish they would bring back PAUL HOLLIS He made the show interesting with Historical information. This Woody Woodpecker guy they have now is a Joke. And Chambers is just a used car saleman.

cladking · September 18, 2006 7:13AM

<< I was watching them in action last night. One of their favorite lines is, “Where are you going to find these coins once the mint stops selling them?” They also go on the denigrate coin dealers who often sell items like Proof sets in “beat-up holders. Our holders are all pristine!”
>>

This is the one I like. All this probably means is that they remove so many of the best
coins for slabbing that they have plenty of nice holders to put the junky sets in that they
actually sell. About 80% of these holders are usually in good shape and half the rest are
good enough. If you need nice holders there is no shortage among the firms that bust
up sets by the tens of thousands.

Last night they claimed to reject 2 of 3 sets that are submitted to them. It is ludicrous to
think that this many sets have some sort of problem. While sets do vary and there are some
culls, fewer than 10% of most dates have any problem coins or damaged plastic. This was
on Coin Vault rather than HSN though. These guys (CV) generally have much better prices
than the others though can be many multiples of wholesale on "value added" products.

If you pay too much attention to the claims being made you'll hear few statements that are
actually true and many claims about how cheap coins are and how well they'll do in the future.

They do a great deal of good bringing coins to the public but one has to wonder how much
harm is done by attracting those who seek profit and are sometimes grossly ioverpaying in
this pursuit.

MrKelso · September 18, 2006 7:20AM

These guys (CV) generally have much better prices
than the others though can be many multiples of wholesale on "value added" products.

Yes they do, I was looking at HNS the other night and they were selling a roll of SAE's 2006's for i believe it was $569.95

Even Coin Vault Wouldn't be that darn high.

CoinMaster1229 · September 28, 2006 11:47AM

If i offer to sell them my 3 coin gold sets, how much will they pay me. can i count on at least half of what they sell them for. Will they call them the coinmaster horde????

SportsModerator · September 28, 2006 11:52AM

FYI HSN gets 33 1/3 % of the sales price right off the top.

Chambers and co. are probably frontmen for a whole bunch of regular dealers that many of you do business with, and who set up a shows etc. They just don't tell you of their association.

SportsModerator · September 28, 2006 11:57AM

and then they have to wait 90-120 days for settlement from HSN, less returns, which are many.

mrearlygold · September 28, 2006 12:12PM

Where is the FTC on that one?

ABC123 · September 28, 2006 12:35PM

Very Similar to Watching a Train Wreck---Most People Stand Around and Hold a Pity Party !

dcarr · September 28, 2006 1:09PM

Most things you buy that are advertised on TV have a huge markup.
TV time is very expensive, after all.

Why doesn't anybody ever complain about the HUGE markups on retail jewelry at the mall ?
Markups of 10:1 over true wholesale are common in retail jewelry.

morganbarber · September 28, 2006 1:51PM

I watch the vault and a couple of similar shows, from time to time. What amazes me, is how accurately they represent the value of what they are selling(if you cut it in half). No matter what the product, if I do some research, it always seems like the sale price is exactly 2Xfair value plus or minus a few percent.

Frankcoins · September 28, 2006 9:53PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery

Puffery as a legal term refers to promotional statements and claims that express subjective rather than objective views, such that no reasonable person would take literally. Puffery is especially featured in testimonials.

For instance, a diner advertisement promoting the “world’s best cup of coffee” would class as puffery. That claim would be almost impossible to substantiate, and no reasonable consumer would take such exaggeration at face value.

Puffery often uses the superlative form of a word, like “best”, “most”, “greatest”, etc. However, a company making a superlative claim such as “cheapest” or “safest” usually has to substantiate such competitive claims. Merchants must exercise extreme caution when making statements about the quality, condition, or facts about their products or services. A slight variation in wording may result in an express warranty.

The United States Federal Trade Commission (FTC) defined puffery as a “term frequently used to denote the exaggerations reasonably to be expected of a seller as to the degree of quality of his product, the truth or falsity of which cannot be precisely determined.” [1]

The FTC stated in 1984 that puffery does not warrant enforcement action by the Commission. In its FTC Policy Statement on Deception, the Commission stated: "The Commission generally will not pursue cases involving obviously exaggerated or puffing representations, i.e., those that the ordinary consumers do not take seriously."

vplite99 · April 25, 2022 3:11PM

cladking said:
"They do a great deal of good bringing coins to the public..."

I could not disagree more. To be honest I took the quote out of context (above) but I feel CV does nothing but hurt the hobby when you factor in their marketing techniques. In the long run they turn many more people against coins, then create new collectors.

ajaan · April 25, 2022 3:18PM

@MrKelso said:
This show is a rerun that is approx a week old. Those Morgans Are crap.

$17.00 a Morgan should be more like $8.00 for each Morgan.

I'll pay $17 for most Morgans.

Dave99B · April 25, 2022 3:19PM

More importantly, what ever happened to JapanJohn?

Dave

Walkerfan · April 25, 2022 3:42PM

I grew up listening to Scott Houk. Robert Chambers has since passed away. Andy and Tyler Abel have done well taking over hosting duties. They have a lot of overhead, hence the high prices. Doesn't take much to research and see what you're getting involved with, pricewise, so you either buy it or you don't. We are adults here and not children. They offer a 30 day return privilege. I, personally, have never purchased from them but I do love the show. Besides, we all have paid dues and tuition, at some point. If I would have let that stop me; I'd have quit collecting decades ago.

Martin · April 25, 2022 4:45PM

We need moderation like this. Bring back SM1>
@SportsModerator1 said:

Without their help, my gold plated and colorized state quarter sets would not be at the advanced level they have achieved.

Try getting that sort of service from Mark Feld..............Ha!

Martin

DNADave · April 25, 2022 4:51PM

Saw that boob selling ANACS ms70 2021 type II eagles for $90 saying where else can you get such a good deal. Went straight to eBay and see them selling for 50

silverpop · April 25, 2022 5:02PM

guys come on greed drives these people that is as simple as it gets the more suckers they can get to buy the more they make

and greed is not illegal if it was the human race would be in trouble

BAJJERFAN · April 25, 2022 5:05PM

@Martin said:

We need moderation like this. Bring back SM1>
@SportsModerator1 said:

Without their help, my gold plated and colorized state quarter sets would not be at the advanced level they have achieved.

Try getting that sort of service from Mark Feld..............Ha!

Martin

Right now SM has a lot more on his plate than this place.

jmlanzaf · April 25, 2022 5:10PM

@ajaan said:

@MrKelso said:
This show is a rerun that is approx a week old. Those Morgans Are crap.

$17.00 a Morgan should be more like $8.00 for each Morgan.

I'll pay $17 for most Morgans.

It's a 2006 thread with a 2006 price

derryb · April 25, 2022 6:13PM

I don't know about CV, but they're buyers should get sued of stupidity.

Catbert · April 25, 2022 6:32PM

16 year old thread resurrected to comment on the obvious and that 99% of the readers of this board already know.

Jzyskowski1 · April 25, 2022 6:40PM

Got me again dang it. What the heck guys 22 years old thread? Give it a rest.
Don’t watch the show. Easy! 😉🙀🦫
( yes , I know Beaver, they don’t research and even look on first pg of posts or they might have seen the bit on silvertowne)🦫🤨

JWP · April 25, 2022 6:48PM

I guess i'm just out of the loop. I'm too cheap to pay for cable, and would rather buy coins from all of you guys. I've heard about Big Mike and then forgot about Big Mike. I'd rather buy coins from Mike Tyson, I trust him.

How do the Coin Vault Guys NOT get sued

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