@Jzyskowski1 said:
Got me again dang it. What the heck guys 22 years old thread? Give it a rest.
Don’t watch the show. Easy! 😉🙀🦫
( yes , I know Beaver, they don’t research and even look on first pg of posts or they might have seen the bit on silvertowne)🦫🤨
Where did you get 22 years? The first post was “September 17, 2006 9:38PM”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Got me again dang it. What the heck guys 22 years old thread? Give it a rest.
Don’t watch the show. Easy! 😉🙀🦫
( yes , I know Beaver, they don’t research and even look on first pg of posts or they might have seen the bit on silvertowne)🦫🤨
Where did you get 22 years? The first post was “September 17, 2006 9:38PM”.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Got me again dang it. What the heck guys 22 years old thread? Give it a rest.
Don’t watch the show. Easy! 😉🙀🦫
( yes , I know Beaver, they don’t research and even look on first pg of posts or they might have seen the bit on silvertowne)🦫🤨
Where did you get 22 years? The first post was “September 17, 2006 9:38PM”.
He's from the future.
No ,wise guy , I made a mistake. Sorry
What ever. 16 years. Dang it. Picky ? 😉🙀🦫
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Got me again dang it. What the heck guys 22 years old thread? Give it a rest.
Don’t watch the show. Easy! 😉🙀🦫
( yes , I know Beaver, they don’t research and even look on first pg of posts or they might have seen the bit on silvertowne)🦫🤨
Where did you get 22 years? The first post was “September 17, 2006 9:38PM”.
He's from the future.
No ,wise guy , I made a mistake. Sorry
What ever. 16 years. Dang it. Picky ? 😉🙀🦫
Isn't it interesting that this could be easily mistaken for a current thread (except for the price of Morgans and probably some other references I missed).
@vplite99 said:
cladking said:
"They do a great deal of good bringing coins to the public..."
I could not disagree more. To be honest I took the quote out of context (above) but I feel CV does nothing but hurt the hobby when you factor in their marketing techniques. In the long run they turn many more people against coins, then create new collectors.
What they are selling has evolved somewhat over the years. Until a few years ago most of their product was value added and obviously this was going to go for more than retail. In more recent years much of their product has very little value added so there is less justification for high prices. Obviously overhead is still high.
An individual who buys a completed collection of something may be drawn to collecting even when he learns that the price was too high but someone who buys a fancy silver eagle in fancy packaging at a significant premium is more likely to be put off when he finds the price was too high. A lot of dealers will actually offer less on some of this stuff which is Also problematical. Yes, original packaging can be preferable to MS-70 slabs in a few cases but sometimes dealers just offer melt for everything when they see it this material.
People really should at least duckduckgo things before they buy so they can see what is normal for pricing. It is surprising that enough of this stuff sells at so high a price. But many people buy everything based on advertising instead of common sense. The TV hucksters did do some good for the hobby in 2006 and still do, It's just less now.
Interesting that this thread started in 2006, and the TV guys are still selling coins that are overpriced. I watched one a couple weeks ago that the TV guys were selling a set of 20 different dates MS63 common date Morgan's and were using MS63 monster rainbow Morgan's sold at auction as a price comparison for the potential value of the set.
When I took business law in undergraduate school, a certain amount of salesman’s hype is allowed. The trouble comes in when they hype something as a super investment with great upside potential. It depends on how bad the hype is, but coin dealers are taking chance when they over state the investment thing.
I have not turned into this channel for quite a while, but I remember them talking about “investment potential” for true crap like gold plated state quarters! They called buying them an “opportunity!” That is really going out on a limb.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@thebigeng said:
I would never ever buy those gold plated state quarters, that is really lame. DO they think I'm stupid? I bought the platinum ones..
No offense, but are you serious? There used to be a member of my local club who consigned the platinum plated quarters to our club auctions. They looked pretty much like ordinary quarters to me.
Most pieces that are usually plated outside the mint are considered to be damaged and worth less than pieces that have been messed with. I remember reading the those who sold the Vancouver commemorative half dollars gold plated some of them when they were sold. Those pieces are not well regarded today.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
When I took business law in undergraduate school, a certain amount of salesman’s hype is allowed. The trouble comes in when they hype something as a super investment with great upside potential. It depends on how bad the hype is, but coin dealers are taking chance when they over state the investment thing.
I have not turned into this channel for quite a while, but I remember them talking about “investment potential” for true crap like gold plated state quarters! They called buying them an “opportunity!” That is really going out on a limb.
Sales puffery is allowed to an amazing extent. Where you get in trouble is holding yourself out as an expert to the layperson.
But puffery... goes back at least to the Egyptians - "This chariot was owned by a little old lady and only driven to the temple on feast days"
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
@smuglr said:
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
As a public service, I should inform you that you've been taking advantage of by people called "numismatists" who tricked you into thinking you should pay over face value for pocket change. Paying $50 for a Morgan $? Ridiculous skullduggery. Do you know how many millions of those exist? Please stop enabling these fraudsters.
@BillJones said:
When I took business law in undergraduate school, a certain amount of salesman’s hype is allowed. The trouble comes in when they hype something as a super investment with great upside potential. It depends on how bad the hype is, but coin dealers are taking chance when they over state the investment thing.
I have not turned into this channel for quite a while, but I remember them talking about “investment potential” for true crap like gold plated state quarters! They called buying them an “opportunity!” That is really going out on a limb.
Sales puffery is allowed to an amazing extent. Where you get in trouble is holding yourself out as an expert to the layperson.
But puffery... goes back at least to the Egyptians - "This chariot was owned by a little old lady and only driven to the temple on feast days"
Or driven by Charlton Heston in Ben Hur.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@smuglr said:
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
As a public service, I should inform you that you've been taking advantage of by people called "numismatists" who tricked you into thinking you should pay over face value for pocket change. Paying $50 for a Morgan $? Ridiculous skullduggery. Do you know how many millions of those exist? Please stop enabling these fraudsters.
Not nearly the same, even a cull Morgan is worth closer to the $50 than these ASEs are to $750, but your typical response.
@smuglr said:
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
As a public service, I should inform you that you've been taking advantage of by people called "numismatists" who tricked you into thinking you should pay over face value for pocket change. Paying $50 for a Morgan $? Ridiculous skullduggery. Do you know how many millions of those exist? Please stop enabling these fraudsters.
Not nearly the same, even a cull Morgan is worth closer to the $50 than these ASEs are to $750, but your typical response.
You're missing the (sarcastic) point.
What is the CURRENT price for a Ryder-signed FDOI 70?
95% of everything the Mint sells goes down in value. Do you want to shut them down also? Have you seen the premium for gold proofs?
99% of all porcelain collectibles go down in value. Do we stop them also?
@smuglr said:
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
Problem is : some of them grannies and gramps are likely drinking during the show. I would contend there are other influences, besides hype, which lead people into a buying mode.
And of course, to many of us the astronomical prices keep us from buying. Same with most of Stacks & Bowers, Heritage, Legend, GC or others' offerings. There is a price point where most of us think " that's crazy" ( or criminal). Some actually seek counsel for their own foolishness.
I know of beginners buying from them mainly because they wanted to see what different "dealers" had to offer. Littleton can be pricey but they're very picky. But eventually people realize that they're a colossal rip off.
I recently (last year) bought the ASE Designer Set - NGC PF69 from them. I chalk it up to a live and learn experience. It was like 3x the price from the mint - which I thought I missed out on ... but eventually got my set (a lot of misinformation about the order that got cleared up). However, they were in line with others for the same coins / grades, and better than HSN (thats not a high bar).
Problem is : some of them grannies and gramps are likely drinking during the show. I would contend there are other influences, besides hype, which lead people into a buying mode.
And of course, to many of us the astronomical prices keep us from buying. Same with most of Stacks & Bowers, Heritage, Legend, GC or others' offerings. There is a price point where most of us think " that's crazy" ( or criminal). Some actually seek counsel for their own foolishness.
Good point.
Some people are vulnerable only some times and especially at home.
I guess this is why Rachel from India calls us dozens of times a day; they are waiting for the very moment we go senile. What they might not know is that by then I'll already have the habit of telling her where to get off.
There are far worse things being "sold" on television than puffery-priced coins.
I'm old enough to remember when cigarettes were advertised on TV. Fortunately, that is no more.
But there is still plenty of "unsavory" things touted on TV today. Coins are far down from the worst.
And anything that is extensively advertised on TV is going to cost more than something that isn't. That is why I have my car insurance with a company that doesn't advertise on TV.
And anything that is extensively advertised on TV is going to cost more than something that isn't. That is why I have my car insurance with a company that doesn't advertise on TV.
If just a few more people punished advertisers there would be a lot less advertising.
Hucksters of all stripes from the Coin Vault guys to Madison Avenue have some knack for burrowing under your skin and irritating you until you just buy the product. Now days they are in your face 24/ 7 and everything is for sale or forced down our gullets because people don't resist. They're mostly equally bad so they are hard to punish.
I know how high many of these prices are yet they make every product into the be all end all of coin collecting through bending the truth and misleading claims.
Comments
Where did you get 22 years? The first post was “September 17, 2006 9:38PM”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He's from the future.
FWIW there are still plenty of 2005 ASEs slabbed, raw or otherwise on eBay.
No ,wise guy , I made a mistake. Sorry
What ever. 16 years. Dang it. Picky ? 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
And 6 months later they are still telling you that the coins are Almost Gone😂
Lafayette Grading Set
Makes a better story if you're from the future.
Isn't it interesting that this could be easily mistaken for a current thread (except for the price of Morgans and probably some other references I missed).
Just for fun I looked up how this "investment" from 2006 worked out. Great Collections last sale was in April, 2021. Final price $98.
Forum police:
“This topic already has a thread. Do a search next time and use it.”
Also forum police:
“Why are you bumping this old thread?”
Check back in 2038 for latest update.
Time travelers post here last Thursday...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
What they are selling has evolved somewhat over the years. Until a few years ago most of their product was value added and obviously this was going to go for more than retail. In more recent years much of their product has very little value added so there is less justification for high prices. Obviously overhead is still high.
An individual who buys a completed collection of something may be drawn to collecting even when he learns that the price was too high but someone who buys a fancy silver eagle in fancy packaging at a significant premium is more likely to be put off when he finds the price was too high. A lot of dealers will actually offer less on some of this stuff which is Also problematical. Yes, original packaging can be preferable to MS-70 slabs in a few cases but sometimes dealers just offer melt for everything when they see it this material.
People really should at least duckduckgo things before they buy so they can see what is normal for pricing. It is surprising that enough of this stuff sells at so high a price. But many people buy everything based on advertising instead of common sense. The TV hucksters did do some good for the hobby in 2006 and still do, It's just less now.
Interesting that this thread started in 2006, and the TV guys are still selling coins that are overpriced. I watched one a couple weeks ago that the TV guys were selling a set of 20 different dates MS63 common date Morgan's and were using MS63 monster rainbow Morgan's sold at auction as a price comparison for the potential value of the set.
“Caveat Emptor “ !
( yes beaver, you would think that they would be more careful)😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
When I took business law in undergraduate school, a certain amount of salesman’s hype is allowed. The trouble comes in when they hype something as a super investment with great upside potential. It depends on how bad the hype is, but coin dealers are taking chance when they over state the investment thing.
I have not turned into this channel for quite a while, but I remember them talking about “investment potential” for true crap like gold plated state quarters! They called buying them an “opportunity!”
That is really going out on a limb.
I would never ever buy those gold plated state quarters, that is really lame. DO they think I'm stupid? I bought the platinum ones..
No offense, but are you serious? There used to be a member of my local club who consigned the platinum plated quarters to our club auctions. They looked pretty much like ordinary quarters to me.
Most pieces that are usually plated outside the mint are considered to be damaged and worth less than pieces that have been messed with. I remember reading the those who sold the Vancouver commemorative half dollars gold plated some of them when they were sold. Those pieces are not well regarded today.
This is a fun read. Where is a good lawyer when we need one ? To protect us from us for watching.
Sales puffery is allowed to an amazing extent. Where you get in trouble is holding yourself out as an expert to the layperson.
But puffery... goes back at least to the Egyptians - "This chariot was owned by a little old lady and only driven to the temple on feast days"
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Rather than file a lawsuit my recommendation is to switch the channel.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I understand "caveat emptor" and most here know better, but someone should watch out for the grandmas and grandpas who fall for the hype. They truly believe they are getting something special and that there is an upside in the future. Right now MM has A 2022 W proof ASE FDOI PR70 DCAM in a holder signed by Ryder at $749.95. It has NO upside IMHO, but someone not knowledgable about coins, will buy this for their grandson/godson/whoever and it will no doubt be a treasure to the recipient, but never worth close to that price.
But I am the grandpa and I am only here because I learned to watch out for myself. 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
@BillJones I was joking!!
As a public service, I should inform you that you've been taking advantage of by people called "numismatists" who tricked you into thinking you should pay over face value for pocket change. Paying $50 for a Morgan $? Ridiculous skullduggery. Do you know how many millions of those exist? Please stop enabling these fraudsters.
Or driven by Charlton Heston in Ben Hur.
Not nearly the same, even a cull Morgan is worth closer to the $50 than these ASEs are to $750, but your typical response.
You're missing the (sarcastic) point.
What is the CURRENT price for a Ryder-signed FDOI 70?
95% of everything the Mint sells goes down in value. Do you want to shut them down also? Have you seen the premium for gold proofs?
99% of all porcelain collectibles go down in value. Do we stop them also?
I await your typical response.
As I remember it, that voided the warrantee
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Problem is : some of them grannies and gramps are likely drinking during the show. I would contend there are other influences, besides hype, which lead people into a buying mode.
And of course, to many of us the astronomical prices keep us from buying. Same with most of Stacks & Bowers, Heritage, Legend, GC or others' offerings. There is a price point where most of us think " that's crazy" ( or criminal). Some actually seek counsel for their own foolishness.
I know of beginners buying from them mainly because they wanted to see what different "dealers" had to offer. Littleton can be pricey but they're very picky. But eventually people realize that they're a colossal rip off.
I got a few posts into this thread before seeing posts by dorkkarl and Outhaul... not to mention $8 Morgans...
Fast forward 16 years, and very little has changed... [edited to add] except the price of PM's.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
This thread refers to them as the Crime Vault!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/547425/crime-vault-on-right-now
I learn quite a bit watchung CV, AVC, & RCTV. I also rarely buy from them.
I recently (last year) bought the ASE Designer Set - NGC PF69 from them. I chalk it up to a live and learn experience.
It was like 3x the price from the mint - which I thought I missed out on ... but eventually got my set (a lot of misinformation about the order that got cleared up). However, they were in line with others for the same coins / grades, and better than HSN (thats not a high bar).
Probably wont make that mistake again tho.
Good point.
Some people are vulnerable only some times and especially at home.
I guess this is why Rachel from India calls us dozens of times a day; they are waiting for the very moment we go senile. What they might not know is that by then I'll already have the habit of telling her where to get off.
There are far worse things being "sold" on television than puffery-priced coins.
I'm old enough to remember when cigarettes were advertised on TV. Fortunately, that is no more.
But there is still plenty of "unsavory" things touted on TV today. Coins are far down from the worst.
And anything that is extensively advertised on TV is going to cost more than something that isn't. That is why I have my car insurance with a company that doesn't advertise on TV.
If just a few more people punished advertisers there would be a lot less advertising.
Hucksters of all stripes from the Coin Vault guys to Madison Avenue have some knack for burrowing under your skin and irritating you until you just buy the product. Now days they are in your face 24/ 7 and everything is for sale or forced down our gullets because people don't resist. They're mostly equally bad so they are hard to punish.
I know how high many of these prices are yet they make every product into the be all end all of coin collecting through bending the truth and misleading claims.