Should I waste my time tomorrow looking at raw coins in Stack's auction?

Longacre · August 20, 2006 10:57PM

I am virtually 100% certain that I am not comfortable bidding on raw coins in Stack's auctions. It is nothing against Stack's, because their firm has been around for quite some time. It is just that I don't feel confident in my own abilities to grade and determine if a coin has been cleaned or not. I have a meeting in the Big City tomorrow. I can take a quick run to Stack's during lunch and check out their auction lots for their upcoming September auction. Do you think I will get anything out of viewing the raw auction lots, or will it be a waste of my time (especially since I would not feel comfortable bidding anyway). Also, how receptive will the old boys be to a hack like me wanting to view auction lots?

RYK · August 20, 2006 11:03PM

My suggestion is that you hire a New York-based pro (cough* Mr. Lustig cough*) to view the lots with you.

Barndog · August 20, 2006 11:07PM

I recommend you give it a shot if you have never done it before. It can only help your numismatic pursuits if you view auction lots in person. At the very least, you will become familiar with the process so when you really want something, you will be able to efficiently stalk and acquire the lot.

MrEureka · August 20, 2006 11:10PM

I don't feel confident in my own abilities to grade and determine if a coin has been cleaned or not.

All the more reason to look at as many coins as possible. You don't have to buy anything.

cointagious · August 20, 2006 11:12PM

Please go and review the lots. Make notes on your observations - grade, color, surfaces, etc. Compare prices realized to your notes. Teach yourself how to really look at a coin. It could be an invaluable experience. Then do again...and again...and again. At some point you'll begin to 'get it' and never fear a raw coin again. It is one of the best ways to learn.

Shamika · August 20, 2006 11:46PM

I've heard Stacks will actually crack out a coin already slabbed before auctioning (can someone confirm this?)

ziggy29 · August 20, 2006 11:48PM

<< I've heard Stacks will actually crack out a coin already slabbed before auctioning (can someone confirm this?) >>

Now THAT's old school.

ColonialCoinUnion · August 21, 2006 12:12AM

If you intend to keep the coins raw, then go for it.

If you intend to have the coins slabbed, and are confident in your ability to grade them, then go for it.

If you intend to have them slabbed, and are not confident in your ability to grade them, then stay home.

In order to view lots at all, though, you will need to register and get a bidder number and to do that you'll need to provide some references, etc. But having done that you are free to view whatever you'd like. I'd suggest tyhat doing it purely as an educational exercise is a good thing - just don't tell them thats why you are there.

ColonialCoinUnion · August 21, 2006 12:15AM

<< I've heard Stacks will actually crack out a coin already slabbed before auctioning (can someone confirm this?) >>

They do have some slabbed coins in their auctions, so obviously this isn't something they do in every case. But yes, I have heard of this sometimes.

TwoSides2aCoin · August 21, 2006 12:22AM

Time is money and a precious commodity that we all only have so much of. If your priorities dictate that you not waste yours due to your eyes, one viable solution is to find someone with an eye for "the naturally minted metal" and how it looks over time...

oh nevermind... there is no viable solution.

It's going to cost just thinking about it !

BillJones · August 21, 2006 12:28AM

It’s been my experience that one must look at every coin that you wish to bid upon in a Stack’s sale. You can’t go by their descriptions. Staying in New York City costs a fortune these days. I have never found going to a Stack’s auction in the city to be worth the cost. If it’s held in conjunction with show, that can be different.

There are a few dealers with whom I do trust their grading and will bid “blind” in their auctions. With these dealers my return rate for grading has been somewhere around 1% (that's right ONE piece out of a 100). Sadly these guys deal in tokens and medals, not coins.

OKbustchaser · August 21, 2006 12:29AM

<< 

<< I've heard Stacks will actually crack out a coin already slabbed before auctioning (can someone confirm this?) >>

They do have some slabbed coins in their auctions, so obviously this isn't something they do in every case. But yes, I have heard of this sometimes. >>

I have been told that they will sometimes crack a coin if they feel it is badly misgraded (either way) and then catalogue it at their grade.

Barry · August 21, 2006 12:36AM

You wanna look at the coins, look at the coins. No harm in doing that. With a name like Longacre, references shouldn't be problem

However, be careful. You know how unsafe big cities can be.

(edited for typo)

lkrarecoins · August 21, 2006 1:13AM

Stacks's is a hop, skip, and a jump from my office in Midtown. I occasionally drop in to view their inventory and
get a free auction catalog. What I have not done so far is view their auction lots. I've heard this is the best way
to experience PQ coins, and to learn the difference. From my experiences, not me in particular, I dont see them treating
their patrons too well. These are people cashing in Pre-1964 silver "crap". I guess you need to spend a million bucks to get noticed there.
Bunch of show offs!!! haha

lkrarecoins · August 21, 2006 1:15AM

edited to add....

if anyone ever needs to run an errand or needs a reliable mole, feel free to contact me

coinmickey · August 21, 2006 1:26AM

I work in the city and I've dropped in on occassion to settle an invoice. I've found them to be just fine with customers.

As for inspecting lots at their sales, I haven't done it, although I won't bid on something w/o a pic. Funny thing is that I was considering going in and inspecting this time around but I'll probably pass and not bid in the sale at all.

Conder101 · August 21, 2006 4:52AM

<< It is just that I don't feel confident in my own abilities to grade and determine if a coin has been cleaned or not. >>

If you don't feel confident in your abilities then I would not risk a lot of money bidding. On the other hand I would definitely still look at the lots and judge them as if you were going to bid, make notes, and see what they do. That is the only way to learn. (If there are things you want in the auction have someone whose skills you do trust examine those lots too and have him bid, but make sure you compare his opinions with your own. Once again you'll learn.)

Stack's should have any problem with you viewing. If they expect to make sales they have to let people view the lots. And I'm sure they have have learned long ago not to judge a potential bidder by his appearance. There a fair number of seriously moneyed collectors out there who don't dress the stereotype. I don't dress fancy and I've known a few multimillionaires that don't dress as well as I do.

<< I've heard Stacks will actually crack out a coin already slabbed before auctioning (can someone confirm this?) >>

It probably depends on whether the coin belongs to Stack's or if it belongs to a consignor. I can't see them cracking a consignors coin but I do believe they will sometimes crack coins that they own. (I think you will find though that if the coin is slabbed Stacks renders no opinion as to the grade of the coin and simply gives the slab grade.)

Elcontador · August 21, 2006 6:48AM

If you have the time, you might want to look at some auction lots that interest you, and guess the grades & at what prices they will sell. Then compare actual hammer prices to what you estimated. You can often "back into" the grades at which a winning buyer assessed said raw coins & compare them with your assessment(s).

I 'recommend' strong bids on blue toned PF IHCs, especially if they're in NGC holders

coinguy1 · August 21, 2006 7:28AM

Definitely look (and even touch) but just as definitely, don't bid. Make notes, check prices realized and make it an enjoyable, stress-free/risk-free learning experience.

PS - Don't get mugged and put your auction catalogs away before you leave your house or Conseula might read them and start asking questions.

roadrunner · August 21, 2006 10:03AM

A good learning environment and worth the trip even if you don't buy. I sat through many Stack's auctions over the years and it
definitely helped my grading skills. You'll see the coins that dealers fight over and the ones they ignore. All of this helps.

roadrunner

ABC123 · August 21, 2006 10:30AM

Go For It !

Aegis3 · August 21, 2006 10:33AM

Sounds like it should be a good learning experience. Plus, there seems to be a good number of good colonials in the sale.

Though, I must admit that the sun on this Continental Currency piece is kind of scary.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · August 21, 2006 11:54AM

RYK - The last person you want to use as a reference at Stack's is Mr. Lustig.You also don't want to use my name.

Longacre - I don't believe you can view the lots as they are not yet available for viewing.However I would recommend the anniversary sale in October because there is a spectacular Half dollar collection from 1794 to 1964 which is complete.

Stewart

michael · August 21, 2006 11:57AM

am virtually 100% certain that I am not comfortable bidding on raw coins in Stack's auctions.

Should I waste my time tomorrow looking at raw coins in Stack's auction?

THEN DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME TO LOOK

A BIG PASS FOR YOU

BigMoose · August 21, 2006 12:17PM

Longacre, spending a few hours looking at lots at Stacks can be a very pleasant experience and an invaluable learning experience as well. I recall looking at lots in the winter of 2001 for the Andy Hain/Americana Sale, sitting next to a very nice guy with a German accent( turned out to be Oliver Jung, and he was checking out the gem 1792 Silver Center cent, a fantastic coin that I will likely never gaze upon again). You can sometimes find truly nice coins that go relatively unnoticed. At the very least, you will improve your grading skills by comparing your grades with the prices realized.

Conder101 · August 21, 2006 11:43PM

Ok Longacre, you've heard all the opinions, what did you decide to do?

Longacre · August 22, 2006 3:57AM

<< Ok Longacre, you've heard all the opinions, what did you decide to do? >>

As is usual, my day job got in the way of the fun and there was not enough time to get over to Stack's. Also, I see that the lots might not have been available for viewing, so I am not that upset. I need to schedule some time to get there and plan it out a little better, especially if they require references. My other problem is although I live about 40 minutes from NYC, I always act like a tourist whenever I am there. For example, this morning I was peering into the windows of Good Morning America in Times Square with the 1,000 other tourists, and shrieking like a little girl every time a star entered into the building.

lkrarecoins · August 22, 2006 4:54AM

longacre....Good Morning America has 5 second delays for people like you....just kiddin'

I pass that area everyday everyday en route to work...I get a kick out of all the peepers

RYK · August 22, 2006 8:59AM

RYK - The last person you want to use as a reference at stack's is Mr. Lustig.You also don't want to use my name.

So who should Longacre and I have view raw rare gold coin lots (and possibly bid) for us?

coinkat · August 22, 2006 10:28AM

It seems that you should consider attending more shows

majorbigtime · August 22, 2006 11:35AM

No, I tossed mine when it arrived.

Higashiyama · August 22, 2006 2:09PM

Michael -- please elaborate! I'd bid on a raw Stack's coin if I had your opinion on it first. Is your concern the rather wide range of prices raw coins tend to fetch, due in part to the numbers game?

PS -- Stack's will definitely crack a slabbed coin if they think it is undergraded.

oreville · August 22, 2006 2:54PM

Longacre:

The best way to hone your grading skills is to view an auction lot with someone else and to compare your grades of each coin on each lot.

You be amazed how much fun it is to do so!

Do this with different coin collectors.

Since I likewise am not far from NYC, I will volunteer to meet with you and try a session in the viewing room.

I also believe ANR has an upcoming auction quite soon as well in NY City.

Should I waste my time tomorrow looking at raw coins in Stack's auction?

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