Mike, IMO and others, there is absolutely no rub on this one. I see what you're saying about the cap, it's not rub. Believe me I spent a lot of time inspecting this one as a Bust half with absolutely no rub is a tough bird to find. I don't see anything in the image as far as the top of the eagles beak. I see luster or reflection.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders >>
Forgot something, lets say this were true, if they were selling I bet they wouldn't be calling them 58. In or out of the holder.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
100 + post later and there is very little substantive discussion here. Mostly just personal barbs.
Becasue it is a Peace dollar no one should be surprised that doubt will surround the coin.
The person who originally submitted it to NGC has stated earlier in the thread:
<< <i>The (non-distracting) blue in the right field was always been a bit troubling to me but the rest of the tone was in perfect NT order >>
So even he had some lingering doubts about it. Some tone coin lovers who have seen it in hand think its OK. Anyone who purchase it will have to reach their own conclusion. The $4K price tag should cause that person to stop and think.
But the question remains, if this coin is good, why is this Peace dollar different from all other Peace dollars?
As most of you are aware, Peace dollars rarely tone in the same color scheme as Morgans. Having seen the coin in hand, the blue passed my smell test, and NGC's as well.
Coinguy1, with respect, grading (white) coins via a picture is much different (easier) than determining AT/NT via a picture. Hence, I stand by my statement - unless you've seen this (or any questionable) coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty (which are the statements I am attacking) a coin is AT. Period. Every expert worth their salt will agree.
<< <i>Coinguy1, with respect, grading (white) coins via a picture is much different (easier) than determining AT/NT via a picture. Hence, I stand by my statement - unless you've seen this coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty (which are the statements I am attacking) a coin is AT. Period. Every expert worth their salt will agree >>
Doug, that wasn't the point I was making. My point was that someone shouldn't necessarily lose (or gain) credibility, for their assessment of a coin's originality based solely upon an image. If the image is all they have to go by, they shouldn't be put down, simply because the coin might look different and/or be easier to assess in person.
I'd also recommend a re-write of your
<< <i>unless you've seen this coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty...a coin is AT >>
It should more correctly/accurately read : Even if/when you've seen this or other coins in hand, often you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty... a coin is AT.
Good? or grabbing for straws? In my opinion, posting something like that is nothing more than childish games. I think Russ is a "cat", but let's keep our "eyes on the ball" gentlemen. (or coin in this case) JMHO
He bought many more than those during that time. He also bought plenty of PCI and NTC crap. He returned a legit NGC graded CC that he bought from me in a $1 no reserve auction in the fall of 2003, so I did some checking on his buying habits at the time.
<< <i>did things just get more interesting? go Russ. not proof positive, but it makes one wonder >>
FC,
I don't think this coin came from those purchases. My point is simply that those who are painting this guy as some kind of toning expert should be made aware of the facts.
Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And, in the future, if no one would buy it for more than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And if no one would buy it for less than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug >>
Excellent!
Now, I have this Peace dollar's exact twin I'd sell for half price if you're game. Of course it's raw, and full disclosure would have me let you know I purchased it for much, much less.
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And if no one would buy it for less than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug >>
Excellent!
Now, I have this Peace dollar's exact twin I'd sell for half price if you're game. Of course it's raw, and full disclosure would have me let you know I purchased it for much, much less. >>
I would pay even more for matching bookend toners in NGC 65* holders!!!
You may want to check that thread over at the other forum:
<< <i>I added the pictures from the original thread in 2005 from across the street to my listing......just to make it interesting. >>
The images are the same because he added them after the fact.
Russ, NCNE >>
I knew those weren't there before. What a scumbag. And as I mentioned before, the hits that are visible and were discussed in the 2005 thread about Bear buying it, are mysteriously gone in his current images.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Another difference (besides toning shades) between Peace and Morgan dollars - Peace dollars can have hits on the cheek like that and get a technical 65 Gem grade.
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit >>
I was not suggesting that the coin was not original, only that the grade got a bump (and a star) for color. And certainly bumps for color are a common occurence. However, I like toned coins that are eye appealing AND make the grade techinically.
I still think the coin is likely NT, but after seeing the additional info on this thread, there is enough "reasonable doubt" about the coin's originality in my mind, that I would not pay four figures for it.
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Another difference (besides toning shades) between Peace and Morgan dollars - Peace dollars can have hits on the cheek like that and get a technical 65 Gem grade. >>
Not at PCGS. All mine with cheeks like that are 64s
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit >>
No, we can't forget the fact it's a Peace$ because that's what it is. And not to seem harsh, but you keep insisting this coin is a no brainier NT and anybody that thinks different there is something wrong with them. I still haven't said one way or the other how I feel.
That said sir, and since you seem to keep knocking any opinion that differs from your's and a few others..... How many toned Peace$ have you owned, and how many have you viewed in person?
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<<< Another difference (besides toning shades) between Peace and Morgan dollars - Peace dollars can have hits on the cheek like that and get a technical 65 Gem grade. >>>
<<< Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit >>>
PCGS should charge an admission fee to view this thread, the entertainment value is off the charts
FINALLY I get to agree with Connecticutcoin. The NGC MS64 and above Peace Dollars are in fact discounted substancially vs. PCGS because the market views them as a bit looser at higher grades than PCGS, PLUS they have the habit of sometimes giving a higher "market grade" in addition to their star , and sometimes not giving it.
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit >>
No, we can't forget the fact it's a Peace$ because that's what it is. And not to seem harsh, but you keep insisting this coin is a no brainier NT and anybody that thinks different there is something wrong with them. I still haven't said one way or the other how I feel.
That said sir, and since you seem to keep knocking any opinion that differs from your's and a few others..... How many toned Peace$ have you owned, and how many have you viewed in person? >>
The point here is not that it's a Peace dollar, or a Morgan dollar, or a Commem, or a Buffalo nickel. The point is the scientific process and authentic results, over time, of toning on a silver coin. How do we know where this Peace was stored? We don't. How do we know what the environment under which it was stored, we don't. It could have been stored in a commem card, or in a bag of Morgans, not likely but who knows??? What we do know is that it is made of silver, and that there are progressions of toning that are endemic to silver coins when stored under certain conditions. I have seen enough toned coins and toning patterns to come to a valid conclusion that this "coin" has original toning, Peace or no Peace.
<< <i>I have seen enough toned coins and toning patterns to come to a valid conclusion that this "coin" has original toning, Peace or no Peace. >>
Well, you da man then!!!! >>
I don't mean to sound like THE authority, quite the contrary actually. It's just when I have a strong opinion about something, I try like heck to express it.
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And, in the future, if no one would buy it for more than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
dizzyfoxx, it's all good. I was just kinda playing a bit of devils advocate with you. That said..... I think this thing has your name on it and I think you should buy it. Far as I'm concerned about this thing.... well, it's just a friggin Peace$ is all. Heh
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, it's all good. I was just kinda playing a bit of devils advocate with you. That said..... I think this thing has your name on it and I think you should buy it. Far as I'm concerned about this thing.... well, it's just a friggin Peace$ is all. Heh >>
Stman-- As I said, I've seen the coin briefly and while not a big fan of Dizzy's idea of certain color sequences being ubiquitous or diagnostic, there are certain characteristics I'm sure most people look to examine. For example on this one, the colors are slightly different in value in the incuse areas as they should be and as first noted by Robert Campbell in his talks in toning when the President of the ANA. There may be other things but frankly I've forgotten as I looked at a lot of coins since this one. But point is: 1) the "cooked" Peace Dollars of gototoning or whoever lack these NT identifiers, 2) you can give a valid opinion online--but I'm sure people here know by now coins look different in hand---and ALL toners do look very very different in hand -
Last point-- I would dearly like to see some MS Peace Dollars out of some old time collections like the one of Amon Carter or Vermuelle where you know how they were stored and you know if the toning is original--hat might give us some facts to go on!
I have little experience in this area, but I am interested and willing to learn. The most troubling thing to me in this whole thread is that two collectors who I consider to be authorities in such a matter, Newmismatist and stman, appear to be on opposite sides of this debate. I must say that I like (and trust) the appearance of the Peace dollar that Jeremy provided on page one much more than the coin everyone has been arguing about the last two days.
I love originally toned coins, that's one of the reasons I collect commems, they simply don't come with the type of toning being discussed here. Doctors find it easier to create "bag" or "album" toning on silver dollars---------------BigE
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And, in the future, if no one would buy it for more than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
<< <i>Actually, the coin looks nothing like the work of tonecoin2003, gototoning or whatever else that nimrod calls himself. >>
And, you would certainly know that, wouldn't you? Russ, NCNE >>
Russ thank you for displaying my excellent feedback record from E-bay. As a seller, the comments are just as good by the way. We are all well aware that E-Bay feedback stays forever and is public knowledge, so try not to bask very long in the light of "exposing me". Obviously you have entirely too much free time on your hands. Considering you have no real knowledge to base your criticisms on I suppose you needed to go this route.
I am new to this board, have never met you and do not know you personally. All I see is a coward that hides behind his computer and enjoys taking shots at people he knows nothing about, criticizes coins he has never seen in person and passes judgment on issues concerning numismatics that are obviously out of his realm. However, you make up for it by trashing others and their material. Freud also had his own ideas concerning individuals such as yourself, but we can save that for another thread if you would like. I am here to help babe.
Sure I purchased coins from gototoning 3 years ago and why not? If your memory is as good as you are leading us to believe, you will also recall he always mixed in NT coins, both raw and graded into his auctions. Probably in an attempt to give himself legitimacy. I purchased coins graded by PCGS, NGC, SEGS and PCI from him. The coins I felt were NT I kept and the coins I felt were AT I returned. I ripped most all of them because people were afraid to buy from him. I have also purchased many coins graded by PCI, NTC and any other service you can think of both toned and white on E-Bay and at shows. They generally sell much cheaper as opposed to their PCGS or NGC counterparts thanks to people like you that need plastic to determine a coins value and authenticity. I then crack out these coins and cross them, many times getting an upgrade. A home run for me and for many other people that post here and do exactly the same thing.
As I stated earlier, the Peace Dollar in question has been deemed NT by most any collector or dealer that I have shown it to. I also showed it to NGC AGAIN a few months back in Baltimore. What are we missing here? If collectors, dealers and professional graders that have seen the coin in hand think it is NT and yourself and other people on this board are sure it is AT from viewing a photo for 5 seconds on the internet something is seriously wrong. What does this say about the rest of us including the graders? For this issue to be solved via a photograph, the problem must be very blatant and the rest of us are blind. I am sure the "Peace Gate" issue is what prompted this, however there are other issues concerning that coin as to how it ended up in a holder that most people are unaware of and I am not at liberty to discuss. I would also dismiss that issue anyway considering we are talking about a coin and not plastic. Whenever I purchase a coin I disregard the holder and view same as a raw coin. Its does not matter to me what any service has done in the past or what they think. What I think about the coin is most important to me as it should be to anyone.
Concerning the coin I bought from you on E-Bay a few years ago and you need to keep brining up, well how dare you. Who do you think you are? Someone returned one of Russ's coins...the nerve. That coin sucked Russ and looked better in your picture than it did when I saw it in person. Do you honestly think so highly of yourself as to blame me or attack my ability as if the return was entirely my fault? Get a grip compucretin.
<< <i>All I see is a coward that hides behind his computer and enjoys taking shots at people he knows nothing about >>
I'm the coward? This is precious coming from somebody who swaps in another seller's more realistic images in to his auction mid-stream.
<< <i>Sure I purchased coins from gototoning 3 years ago and why not? If your memory is as good as you are leading us to believe, you will also recall he always mixed in NT coins, both raw and graded into his auctions. Probably in an attempt to give himself legitimacy. I purchased coins graded by PCGS, NGC, SEGS and PCI from him. >>
That's a pretty easy claim to make a couple years after the fact when it can't be determined one way or the other. Unfortunately for you, I was verifying the purchases contemporaneously. You and I both know that you were not just buying graded coins from him. Tell me, why is it that you haven't purchased from him since that period? Somebody whisper in your ear with "Hey, if you're going to pretend to be a toned coin dealer you better stop buying AT'd crap"?
<< <i>Concerning the coin I bought from you on E-Bay a few years ago and you need to keep brining up, well how dare you. Who do you think you are? Someone returned one of Russ's coins...the nerve. >>
I have no problem accepting the few returns I get. What I do have a problem with is a buyer who doesn't even contact me to ask about a return, but instead just sends an eMail that says "this coin has been mailed back".
<< <i>That coin sucked Russ and looked better in your picture than it did when I saw it in person. >>
The coin looked exactly like the image. The real deal is that you bid it up in a $1 no reserve auction and you had buyer's remorse. It was relisted with the same image and the next buyer loved it. BTW, since then have you learned the difference between an auction and an approval service?
It's pretty clear that you're yet another one of those who has some money to spend and decided it would be "cool" to become a toned coin dealer.
I'm the coward? This is precious coming from somebody who swaps in another seller's more realistic images in to his auction mid-stream."
Actually, I posted a thread across the street stating my addition of the pictures moments after I did it. My original picture is still there and I really see no big difference in color between mine and Greattoning's photos. I also submit to you that adding those pictures right along side of mine was the complete opposite of cowardly in nature. You might want to re-think that.
"That's a pretty easy claim to make a couple years after the fact when it can't be determined one way or the other. Unfortunately for you, I was verifying the purchases contemporaneously. You and I both know that you were not just buying graded coins from him. Tell me, why is it that you haven't purchased from him since that period? Somebody whisper in your ear with "Hey, if you're going to pretend to be a toned coin dealer you better stop buying AT'd crap"?"
So here you are in that place again using speculation to create issues of impropriety. You are extremely skilled at that, so kudos' are extended for that and your apparent psychic ability. Remember I did say he offered NT coins both raw and certified, I did not say I just bought them certified. For the most part in the last few years he has been offering all AT stuff, so I stopped buying and stopped looking. After "Peace Gate" however, I did want to buy that Peace Dollar he up for auction to see one up close, however, someone here beat me to it.
"I have no problem accepting the few returns I get. What I do have a problem with is a buyer who doesn't even contact me to ask about a return, but instead just sends an eMail that says "this coin has been mailed back"."
You seem to have contradicted yourself. You said I E-Mailed you, which I believe is considered to be contacting someone. Then I returned it.
"The coin looked exactly like the image. The real deal is that you bid it up in a $1 no reserve auction and you had buyer's remorse. It was relisted with the same image and the next buyer loved it. BTW, since then have you learned the difference between an auction and an approval service?"
In your opinion the coin looked exactly like the image, I suppose that is the only opinion that counts then? Interesting world you live in.
"It's pretty clear that you're yet another one of those who has some money to spend and decided it would be "cool" to become a toned coin dealer."
I have been collecting coins for over 30 years and yes, it is cool to be a coin dealer. That is why I abandoned my previous career as an engineer and started my own full time business over 6 years ago. You have a problem with that Skippy? Is this interview over yet?
Comments
<< <i>I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders >>
Forgot something, lets say this were true, if they were selling I bet they wouldn't be calling them 58. In or out of the holder.
Becasue it is a Peace dollar no one should be surprised that doubt will surround the coin.
The person who originally submitted it to NGC has stated earlier in the thread:
<< <i>The (non-distracting) blue in the right field was always been a bit troubling to me but the rest of the tone was in perfect NT order >>
So even he had some lingering doubts about it. Some tone coin lovers who have seen it in hand think its OK. Anyone who purchase it will have to reach their own conclusion. The $4K price tag should cause that person to stop and think.
But the question remains, if this coin is good, why is this Peace dollar different from all other Peace dollars?
CG
Coinguy1, with respect, grading (white) coins via a picture is much different (easier) than determining AT/NT via a picture. Hence, I stand by my statement - unless you've seen this (or any questionable) coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty (which are the statements I am attacking) a coin is AT. Period. Every expert worth their salt will agree.
Doug
<< <i>Coinguy1, with respect, grading (white) coins via a picture is much different (easier) than determining AT/NT via a picture. Hence, I stand by my statement - unless you've seen this coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty (which are the statements I am attacking) a coin is AT. Period. Every expert worth their salt will agree >>
Doug, that wasn't the point I was making. My point was that someone shouldn't necessarily lose (or gain) credibility, for their assessment of a coin's originality based solely upon an image. If the image is all they have to go by, they shouldn't be put down, simply because the coin might look different and/or be easier to assess in person.
I'd also recommend a re-write of your
<< <i>unless you've seen this coin in hand, you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty...a coin is AT >>
It should more correctly/accurately read : Even if/when you've seen this or other coins in hand, often you cannot determine with ABSOLUTE certainty... a coin is AT.
You may want to check that thread over at the other forum:
<< <i>I added the pictures from the original thread in 2005 from across the street to my listing......just to make it interesting. >>
The images are the same because he added them after the fact.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Actually, the coin looks nothing like the work of tonecoin2003, gototoning or whatever else that nimrod calls himself. >>
And, you would certainly know that, wouldn't you?
Russ, NCNE
go Russ. not proof positive, but it makes one wonder.
if bear used to own this coin, this whole thing sure goes
back in time quite far.
actually i am totally lost and wish someone would summarize
the point again. thanks
<< <i>That Russ. Hes good. >>
Good? or grabbing for straws? In my opinion, posting something like that is nothing more than childish games
I think Russ is a
<< <i>did things just get more interesting?
go Russ. not proof positive, but it makes one wonder >>
FC,
I don't think this coin came from those purchases. My point is simply that those who are painting this guy as some kind of toning expert should be made aware of the facts.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>That Russ. Hes good. >>
He just earned all my respect.
Doug
(edited because I can't spell right)
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And if no one would buy it for less than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug >>
Excellent!
Now, I have this Peace dollar's exact twin I'd sell for half price if you're game.
Of course it's raw, and full disclosure would have me let you know I purchased it for much, much less.
<< <i>
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And if no one would buy it for less than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug >>
Excellent!
Now, I have this Peace dollar's exact twin I'd sell for half price if you're game.
Of course it's raw, and full disclosure would have me let you know I purchased it for much, much less. >>
I would pay even more for matching bookend toners in NGC 65* holders!!!
But maybe it's worth a second shot!
<< <i>Keets,
You may want to check that thread over at the other forum:
<< <i>I added the pictures from the original thread in 2005 from across the street to my listing......just to make it interesting. >>
The images are the same because he added them after the fact.
Russ, NCNE >>
I knew those weren't there before. What a scumbag. And as I mentioned before, the hits that are visible and were discussed in the 2005 thread about Bear buying it, are mysteriously gone in his current images.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>I tried. Once. Bagged.
But maybe it's worth a second shot! >>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Another difference (besides toning shades) between Peace and Morgan dollars - Peace dollars can have hits on the cheek like that and get a technical 65 Gem grade.
<< <i>
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit
I was not suggesting that the coin was not original, only that the grade got a bump (and a star) for color. And certainly bumps for color are a common occurence. However, I like toned coins that are eye appealing AND make the grade techinically.
I still think the coin is likely NT, but after seeing the additional info on this thread, there is enough "reasonable doubt" about the coin's originality in my mind, that I would not pay four figures for it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Another difference (besides toning shades) between Peace and Morgan dollars - Peace dollars can have hits on the cheek like that and get a technical 65 Gem grade. >>
Not at PCGS. All mine with cheeks like that are 64s
<< <i>
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit
No, we can't forget the fact it's a Peace$ because that's what it is. And not to seem harsh, but you keep insisting this coin is a no brainier NT and anybody that thinks different there is something wrong with them. I still haven't said one way or the other how I feel.
That said sir, and since you seem to keep knocking any opinion that differs from your's and a few others..... How many toned Peace$ have you owned, and how many have you viewed in person?
<<< Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit >>>
PCGS should charge an admission fee to view this thread, the entertainment value is off the charts
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
With the hits on that cheek, it would probably get an MS-64 if it were white. >>
Look at that coin, forget about the fact it's a Peace dollar, IMHO anyone who considers that anything but original, is just a tad bit
No, we can't forget the fact it's a Peace$ because that's what it is. And not to seem harsh, but you keep insisting this coin is a no brainier NT and anybody that thinks different there is something wrong with them. I still haven't said one way or the other how I feel.
That said sir, and since you seem to keep knocking any opinion that differs from your's and a few others..... How many toned Peace$ have you owned, and how many have you viewed in person? >>
The point here is not that it's a Peace dollar, or a Morgan dollar, or a Commem, or a Buffalo nickel. The point is the scientific process and authentic results, over time, of toning on a silver coin. How do we know where this Peace was stored? We don't. How do we know what the environment under which it was stored, we don't. It could have been stored in a commem card, or in a bag of Morgans, not likely but who knows??? What we do know is that it is made of silver, and that there are progressions of toning that are endemic to silver coins when stored under certain conditions. I have seen enough toned coins and toning patterns to come to a valid conclusion that this "coin" has original toning, Peace or no Peace.
<< <i>I have seen enough toned coins and toning patterns to come to a valid conclusion that this "coin" has original toning, Peace or no Peace. >>
Well, you da man then!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I have seen enough toned coins and toning patterns to come to a valid conclusion that this "coin" has original toning, Peace or no Peace. >>
Well, you da man then!!!!
I don't mean to sound like THE authority, quite the contrary actually. It's just when I have a strong opinion about something, I try like heck to express it.
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And, in the future, if no one would buy it for more than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug
(edited because I can't spell right) >>
Why didn't you just buy the coin at auction for $1450? Auction Sale Realized $1450
<< <i>What a fantastic thread. So who has the nads to buy this peace dollar for $4K??
I heard on th qt, some dude named Eric is in negatiations as we speak
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, it's all good. I was just kinda playing a bit of devils advocate with you. That said..... I think this thing has your name on it and I think you should buy it.
Last point-- I would dearly like to see some MS Peace Dollars out of some old time collections like the one of Amon Carter or Vermuelle where you know how they were stored and you know if the toning is original--hat might give us some facts to go on!
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually, the coin looks nothing like the work of tonecoin2003, gototoning or whatever else that nimrod calls himself. >>
And, you would certainly know that, wouldn't you?
Russ, NCNE >>
Oh, I get it. He was the buyer, not the seller. Misread it the first time.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
same coin, less color. I like this better, it looks like silver again
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Yes, I would enjoy seeing this one in person.
<< <i>
<< <i>Public notice: I would buy this coin back right now for $2,900. And, in the future, if no one would buy it for more than $500, I am okay with that since I love this coin and am sure it is NT.
Doug
(edited because I can't spell right) >>
Why didn't you just buy the coin at auction for $1450? Auction Sale Realized $1450 >>
Lava,
I found out is was on public sale after the auction! Had I known, I would have been on it, as I miss that one. Doug
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually, the coin looks nothing like the work of tonecoin2003, gototoning or whatever else that nimrod calls himself. >>
And, you would certainly know that, wouldn't you?
Russ thank you for displaying my excellent feedback record from E-bay. As a seller, the comments are just as good by the way. We are all well aware that E-Bay feedback stays forever and is public knowledge, so try not to bask very long in the light of "exposing me". Obviously you have entirely too much free time on your hands. Considering you have no real knowledge to base your criticisms on I suppose you needed to go this route.
I am new to this board, have never met you and do not know you personally. All I see is a coward that hides behind his computer and enjoys taking shots at people he knows nothing about, criticizes coins he has never seen in person and passes judgment on issues concerning numismatics that are obviously out of his realm. However, you make up for it by trashing others and their material. Freud also had his own ideas concerning individuals such as yourself, but we can save that for another thread if you would like. I am here to help babe.
Sure I purchased coins from gototoning 3 years ago and why not? If your memory is as good as you are leading us to believe, you will also recall he always mixed in NT coins, both raw and graded into his auctions. Probably in an attempt to give himself legitimacy. I purchased coins graded by PCGS, NGC, SEGS and PCI from him. The coins I felt were NT I kept and the coins I felt were AT I returned. I ripped most all of them because people were afraid to buy from him. I have also purchased many coins graded by PCI, NTC and any other service you can think of both toned and white on E-Bay and at shows. They generally sell much cheaper as opposed to their PCGS or NGC counterparts thanks to people like you that need plastic to determine a coins value and authenticity. I then crack out these coins and cross them, many times getting an upgrade. A home run for me and for many other people that post here and do exactly the same thing.
As I stated earlier, the Peace Dollar in question has been deemed NT by most any collector or dealer that I have shown it to. I also showed it to NGC AGAIN a few months back in Baltimore. What are we missing here? If collectors, dealers and professional graders that have seen the coin in hand think it is NT and yourself and other people on this board are sure it is AT from viewing a photo for 5 seconds on the internet something is seriously wrong. What does this say about the rest of us including the graders? For this issue to be solved via a photograph, the problem must be very blatant and the rest of us are blind. I am sure the "Peace Gate" issue is what prompted this, however there are other issues concerning that coin as to how it ended up in a holder that most people are unaware of and I am not at liberty to discuss. I would also dismiss that issue anyway considering we are talking about a coin and not plastic. Whenever I purchase a coin I disregard the holder and view same as a raw coin. Its does not matter to me what any service has done in the past or what they think. What I think about the coin is most important to me as it should be to anyone.
Concerning the coin I bought from you on E-Bay a few years ago and you need to keep brining up, well how dare you. Who do you think you are? Someone returned one of Russ's coins...the nerve. That coin sucked Russ and looked better in your picture than it did when I saw it in person. Do you honestly think so highly of yourself as to blame me or attack my ability as if the return was entirely my fault? Get a grip compucretin.
We are all about eye appeal
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<< <i>All I see is a coward that hides behind his computer and enjoys taking shots at people he knows nothing about >>
I'm the coward? This is precious coming from somebody who swaps in another seller's more realistic images in to his auction mid-stream.
<< <i>Sure I purchased coins from gototoning 3 years ago and why not? If your memory is as good as you are leading us to believe, you will also recall he always mixed in NT coins, both raw and graded into his auctions. Probably in an attempt to give himself legitimacy. I purchased coins graded by PCGS, NGC, SEGS and PCI from him. >>
That's a pretty easy claim to make a couple years after the fact when it can't be determined one way or the other. Unfortunately for you, I was verifying the purchases contemporaneously. You and I both know that you were not just buying graded coins from him. Tell me, why is it that you haven't purchased from him since that period? Somebody whisper in your ear with "Hey, if you're going to pretend to be a toned coin dealer you better stop buying AT'd crap"?
<< <i>Concerning the coin I bought from you on E-Bay a few years ago and you need to keep brining up, well how dare you. Who do you think you are? Someone returned one of Russ's coins...the nerve. >>
I have no problem accepting the few returns I get. What I do have a problem with is a buyer who doesn't even contact me to ask about a return, but instead just sends an eMail that says "this coin has been mailed back".
<< <i>That coin sucked Russ and looked better in your picture than it did when I saw it in person. >>
The coin looked exactly like the image. The real deal is that you bid it up in a $1 no reserve auction and you had buyer's remorse. It was relisted with the same image and the next buyer loved it. BTW, since then have you learned the difference between an auction and an approval service?
It's pretty clear that you're yet another one of those who has some money to spend and decided it would be "cool" to become a toned coin dealer.
Russ, NCNE
Actually, I posted a thread across the street stating my addition of the pictures moments after I did it. My original picture is still there and I really see no big difference in color between mine and Greattoning's photos. I also submit to you that adding those pictures right along side of mine was the complete opposite of cowardly in nature. You might want to re-think that.
"That's a pretty easy claim to make a couple years after the fact when it can't be determined one way or the other. Unfortunately for you, I was verifying the purchases contemporaneously. You and I both know that you were not just buying graded coins from him. Tell me, why is it that you haven't purchased from him since that period? Somebody whisper in your ear with "Hey, if you're going to pretend to be a toned coin dealer you better stop buying AT'd crap"?"
So here you are in that place again using speculation to create issues of impropriety. You are extremely skilled at that, so kudos' are extended for that and your apparent psychic ability. Remember I did say he offered NT coins both raw and certified, I did not say I just bought them certified. For the most part in the last few years he has been offering all AT stuff, so I stopped buying and stopped looking. After "Peace Gate" however, I did want to buy that Peace Dollar he up for auction to see one up close, however, someone here beat me to it.
"I have no problem accepting the few returns I get. What I do have a problem with is a buyer who doesn't even contact me to ask about a return, but instead just sends an eMail that says "this coin has been mailed back"."
You seem to have contradicted yourself. You said I E-Mailed you, which I believe is considered to be contacting someone. Then I returned it.
"The coin looked exactly like the image. The real deal is that you bid it up in a $1 no reserve auction and you had buyer's remorse. It was relisted with the same image and the next buyer loved it. BTW, since then have you learned the difference between an auction and an approval service?"
In your opinion the coin looked exactly like the image, I suppose that is the only opinion that counts then? Interesting world you live in.
"It's pretty clear that you're yet another one of those who has some money to spend and decided it would be "cool" to become a toned coin dealer."
I have been collecting coins for over 30 years and yes, it is cool to be a coin dealer. That is why I abandoned my previous career as an engineer and started my own full time business over 6 years ago. You have a problem with that Skippy? Is this interview over yet?
We are all about eye appeal
Island Coins Website
Island Coins E-Bay Store