It's pretty tough to find such a nice Peace Dollar. Part of the reason some but not all people here may disagree about toning is simply that different computer screens often show colors sightly differently. I saw Islands Peace $1's in Baltimore, this one shows all the diagnotics of NT. BTW I agree that some questionable colored coins seem to slip through NGC, but then too PCGS seems to be bagging quite a few original coins for no apparent reason recently. They can't win.
The experts who have seen it in hand (and who have replied in this thread) ALL agree it is NT. Additionally, NGC has deemed it NT.
The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>.
Peace Dollars are not supposed to tone like Morgan Dollars. We have years of proof of this. When one of these comes along, it is deserving of extra scrutiny.
It may be AT, it may be NT, but based on history and odds, I'd guess it is AT.
The fact that NGC stands behind the coin is not comforting. At some point they better stand behind their coins or they will be throwing a lot of money around.
Even if NT, that price is steep. Yes, other toned coins went for high prices, and those were over-priced too.
<< <i>Even if NT, that price is steep. Yes, other toned coins went for high prices, and those were over-priced too. >>
In your opinion..........which obviously doesn't mean squat to the toned coin market as it is alive and well wether you believe in paying moon money for toning or not.
Eye appeal is everything and the recent and even historic prices being paid for exceptionally toned coins is a testament to the market agreeing with that sentiment.
Eye appeal is everything and the recent and even historic prices being paid for exceptionally toned coins is a testament to the market agreeing with that sentiment.
until the market says it does not trust TPGs to grade toned coins due to doctors being able to fool them 75% of the time.
<< <i>Eye appeal is everything and the recent and even historic prices being paid for exceptionally toned coins is a testament to the market agreeing with that sentiment.
until the market says it does not trust TPGs to grade toned coins due to doctors being able to fool them 75% of the time. >>
I don't need a TPG to tell what's eye appealing and most of the market makers in toned coins don't either so if you think coin doctors will ever be able to fool the TPGs 75% of the time....your fooling yourself
I don't need a TPG to tell what's eye appealing and most of the market makers in toned coins don't either so if you think coin doctors will ever be able to fool the TPGs 75% of the time....your fooling yourself
i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. *
<< <i>i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. * >>
You don't deal in many high end toned coins do you........
So you just summized that TPG's are heading towards being fooled 75% of the time and you use an example of 1 toned Peace dollar....1 coin that's the best you can do?.. I was under the impression that the toned coin market consisted of literally hundreds of thousands of toned coins and I guarantee there would be thousands that would trade above that price level whether they were in a holder or not. After all there are some collectors that don't need TPG plastic to determine a coins value .... They simply look at a coin, determine the grade, factor in the eye appeal and bam.....come up with a price they would pay for a nicely toned coin.
How did we ever survive before PCGS, NGC, ANACS........amazing!!!!
In an effort to debate a point in a polite manner - hopefully that is allowed in this thread ...
<< <i>The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>. >>
Doug, I, not having seen the coin in person, happen to think it looks to be NT and very attractive. However, I don't think it's fair to say that those who haven't seen it in person (and thus must base their opinions solely upon the images) and don't think it's NT, are " losing any serious credibility".
Oftentimes, images is all we have to go on, so what a coin happens to look like in person shouldn't determine the credibility of those who make comments based upon the images alone. I have seen posters guess the grades of imaged coins "correctly", when, in fact, they were merely extremely lucky. I say that, because, based upon the images alone, their guesses and reasoning were way off. On other occasions, posters have guessed the grades "incorrectly", but based upon the images, their guesses appeared to be right on the money.
This coin has changed hands serveral times in the past year or so. Bear did not hold on to it very long. Perhaps he can explain why. It was sold as lot 618 in a Goldberg Pre-Long Beach Auction May 30-June 1 last year. Hammer price $1,450 or $1,667.50 with the juice despite the catolog predicting a "record price". I may be wrong but I belive Bear paid more than $2,200 for it and lost money on the sale.
The market appears not to have trusted the coin or perhaps just did not like it, or pehaps bidders felt that they would encounter resistance reselling it.
I offer no opinion as to whether it is AT or NT or properly graded.
<< <i>The experts who have seen it in hand (and who have replied in this thread) ALL agree it is NT. Additionally, NGC has deemed it NT.
The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>.
Doug >>
I don't think people who have a different opinion on the coin are losing credibility. Additionally, I don't think most people who express objective doubts about a coin's originality are necessary nothing but color or toning bashers. Thats just too much of a broad brush and there is alot of enhanced crap floating around in holders today whether you care to acknowledge that or not. I think if the coin was listed at $400 versus $4000 there would be a lot less scrutiny. I wasn't a member at that the time of the BEAR post, but I would agree that if posters are expressing different opinions now versus then, that would be hypocritical and suspect.
This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. I for one, only collect coins that I feel have real pretty original toning and I wouldn't touch a coin that I feel has been dipped, and therefore I wouldn't have a problem "bashing" one whenever it came along if I felt it was dipped out of its' skin. Basically, birds of a feather flock together
<< <i>I don't need a TPG to tell what's eye appealing and most of the market makers in toned coins don't either so if you think coin doctors will ever be able to fool the TPGs 75% of the time....your fooling yourself
i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. * >>
I agree NGC, or TPG's in general, are the enabling entity in allowing others to sell doctored or otherwise enhanced coins to the collector at outrgeous prices . Without the holder some of those coins would be worth pennies on the dollar. Would the world be better if the TPG's didn't exist ? Probably not. But I expect them to do a better job at screening out AT.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. I for one, only collect coins that I feel have real pretty original toning and I wouldn't touch a coin that I feel has been dipped, and therefore I wouldn't have a problem "bashing" one whenever it came along if I felt it was dipped out of its' skin. Basically, birds of a feather flock together >>
Another opinion may be that some of us actually like originality and pretty toning but are dismayed by how manufactured color is impacting the credibility of legitimate color and the long term negative impact that may have on the hobby. As the net of Market Acceptability widens, more money will be put into the hands of sellers and TPG's at the eventual expense of the collector. Everything ultimately comes home to roost.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. I for one, only collect coins that I feel have real pretty original toning and I wouldn't touch a coin that I feel has been dipped, and therefore I wouldn't have a problem "bashing" one whenever it came along if I felt it was dipped out of its' skin. Basically, birds of a feather flock together >>
And then there are some who are just plain clueless and wouldn't know pretty original toning from a box of crayons.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right.
Russ, NCNE >>
I'm SOOOO glad someone mentioned this. The left obverse is undeniably authentic to anyone who understands the scientific aspects of toning on silver coins. The right obverse, although certainly a credible toning pattern and color, can be compared somewhat with coins that have been AT'd. That being said, who in their right mind would take that coin with the left originality and incredibly rare toning for a Peace Dollar, and attempt to destroy it by fabricating the right side of the obverse. I think it is without a doubt a perfectly safe assumption that the coin is 100% original. And in my opinion, anyone who chooses to call it AT, is sort of being a bit ignorant and unfair to such a rare treasure. JMHO
<< <i>This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right. >>
Not only that, but my dismay with the ridiculous prices toners are fetching lies primarily with the incentive that it gives the coin cookers to "shake and bake" a lot of coins.
Just I didn't like seeing sometimes attractive NT toners dipped when "blast white" was all the rage, I don't like seeing people ruin perfectly good coins with fake toning in order to try to turn a $50 coin into a $5000 coin. Coin doctoring is coin doctoring, and too many people, because of dogmatic preference to either toners or "white" coins, tend to denounce one a lot more than the other, blasting one form while making excuses (or at least looking the other way) to the other form.
<< <i>...That being said, who in their right mind would take that coin with the left originality and incredibly rare toning for a Peace Dollar, and attempt to destroy it by fabricating the right side of the obverse... >>
Um...any skilled coin doctor who thinks he could make more money if the coin had more toning?
BTW, the images in the thread announcing Bear's purchase of the coin make it look closer to believable.
oh, really?? all i've done is size the pictures for a side by side comparison; they look strikingly similar. if one of the two(Bear's photo or the thread linked eBay photo) was doctored in any way it would be interesting to know how it was done to look like the other picture so closely.
i think bestclser1 had it right and only stated what has become all to apparent here as of late.....................
the coin on the right is Bear's picture, or is it the other way around??
<< <i>...That being said, who in their right mind would take that coin with the left originality and incredibly rare toning for a Peace Dollar, and attempt to destroy it by fabricating the right side of the obverse... >>
Um...any skilled coin doctor who thinks he could make more money if the coin had more toning? >>
I don't think so. That coin's monster appeal is the left obverse, not the right. The left obverse alone would probably be just as sought after as having the blue toning on the otherside as well. It is no doubt original.
<<< I don't think so. That coin's monster appeal is the left obverse, not the right. The left obverse alone would probably be just as sought after as having the blue toning on the otherside as well. It is no doubt original. >>>
<< <i>but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
WRONG! I call them as I see them, and surely you know I don't collect white Bust halves. I did collect and have viewed MANY toned Peace$. I haven't posted my opinion on this thing. I will say the "Blue" in the right obverse field is troubling. This alone, would make me pass. Whenever in doubt I believe one should pass. If not, and as I have learned on here the last few years...... "Who cares how it got it's color, if it's pretty and you like it is all that matters." (Thanks PCGS forum) And BTW, this statement is also very nauseating to me. You want any kind of color and don't care how it got there? Someone will make them any color you want. And they do indeed do it.
This thing looks to have Dansco toning from an album on the left side. I would want to really see the reverse. I'd want to see how much of a "skin" is there. But the "Blue" on the right side? and 4K?
<< <i>The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>. >>
Uh huh, This coming from someone that I "Believe" said the Peace-gate thing was the real deal from an image. And something to the effect he knew the color on the Appalachian "HOARD" nickels was real because they displayed the same colors as bag toned Morgans? (Don't quote me on that I'd need to find the thread.)
I questioned your explanation at the time. I forget your "Story" back to me. Same color as bag toned Morgans on wartime nickels that didn't have the same storage conditions? Hmmm, OK because you're one of the "experts." So I know it must be true.
Edit to add a so my tone isn't taken wrong.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i><<< I don't think so. That coin's monster appeal is the left obverse, not the right. The left obverse alone would probably be just as sought after as having the blue toning on the otherside as well. It is no doubt original. >>>
dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>If I was the president of NGC, the graders who keep on assigning grades and holdering coins like these Peace dollars would be terminated immediatly. >>
Dragon, if that were the case, you'd probably have to terminate yourself too. I seriously doubt that the majority owner of NGC is unaware of and uninvolved in the grading of such coins. As you put it recently - "don't quit your day job".
<< <i>If I was the president of NGC, the graders who keep on assigning grades and holdering coins like these Peace dollars would be terminated immediatly. >>
Dragon, if that were the case, you'd probably have to terminate yourself too. I seriously doubt that the majority owner of NGC is unaware of and uninvolved in the grading of such coins. As you put it recently - "don't quit your day job". >>
Skilling is currently trying that same excuse by saying that he wasn't aware of any funny accounting going on at Enron. Its not working.
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others.
Assuming we are supposed to buy these coins based on the beautiful colors, regardless of how they got there (NT or AT), the fact remains that $1450 to $4000 is a big jump in less than one year, particularly since the Peacegate fiasco.
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others. >>
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58." Please show me the rub.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others. >>
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58." Please show me the rub.
>>
Steve: What's that at the top of Liberty's cap and at the top of the eagle's beak and across its brow?
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others. >>
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58." Please show me the rub.
>>
Steve: What's that at the top of Liberty's cap and at the top of the eagle's beak and across its brow?
Comments
The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>.
Doug
Lots of sensitive folks here, neh?
C'mon, it's frickin' coins, people!
Can't we all just get along?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
It may be AT, it may be NT, but based on history and odds, I'd guess it is AT.
The fact that NGC stands behind the coin is not comforting. At some point they better stand behind their coins or they will be throwing a lot of money around.
Even if NT, that price is steep. Yes, other toned coins went for high prices, and those were over-priced too.
<< <i>Even if NT, that price is steep. Yes, other toned coins went for high prices, and those were over-priced too. >>
In your opinion..........which obviously doesn't mean squat to the toned coin market as it is alive and well wether you believe in paying moon money for toning or not.
Eye appeal is everything and the recent and even historic prices being paid for exceptionally toned coins is a testament to the market agreeing with that sentiment.
until the market says it does not trust TPGs to grade toned coins
due to doctors being able to fool them 75% of the time.
<< <i>Eye appeal is everything and the recent and even historic prices being paid for exceptionally toned coins is a testament to the market agreeing with that sentiment.
until the market says it does not trust TPGs to grade toned coins
due to doctors being able to fool them 75% of the time. >>
I don't need a TPG to tell what's eye appealing and most of the market makers in toned coins don't either so if you think coin doctors will ever be able to fool the TPGs 75% of the time....your fooling yourself
i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put
a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects
it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. *
<< <i>i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put
a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects
it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. * >>
You don't deal in many high end toned coins do you........
So you just summized that TPG's are heading towards being fooled 75% of the time and you use an example of 1 toned Peace dollar....1 coin that's the best you can do?.. I was under the impression that the toned coin market consisted of literally hundreds of thousands of toned coins and I guarantee there would be thousands that would trade above that price level whether they were in a holder or not. After all there are some collectors that don't need TPG plastic to determine a coins value
How did we ever survive before PCGS, NGC, ANACS........amazing!!!!
<< <i>The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>. >>
Doug, I, not having seen the coin in person, happen to think it looks to be NT and very attractive. However, I don't think it's fair to say that those who haven't seen it in person (and thus must base their opinions solely upon the images) and don't think it's NT, are " losing any serious credibility".
Oftentimes, images is all we have to go on, so what a coin happens to look like in person shouldn't determine the credibility of those who make comments based upon the images alone. I have seen posters guess the grades of imaged coins "correctly", when, in fact, they were merely extremely lucky. I say that, because, based upon the images alone, their guesses and reasoning were way off. On other occasions, posters have guessed the grades "incorrectly", but based upon the images, their guesses appeared to be right on the money.
<< <i>Same coin that Bear gets compiments on last year getting slammed this year.Gotta love the different comments by the same folks.
Like Russ said. Gotta love this place.
I have seen the coin in hand and will say that the images appear to be quite accurate.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The experts who have seen it in hand (and who have replied in this thread) ALL agree it is NT. Additionally, NGC has deemed it NT. >>
Are these the same experts who agreed that the Peacegate coin was the real deal? We already know it's the same grading service.
BTW, the images in the thread announcing Bear's purchase of the coin make it look closer to believable.
Russ, NCNE
The toners are alright, they just don't float mine
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
LINK
The market appears not to have trusted the coin or perhaps just did not like it, or pehaps bidders felt that they would encounter resistance reselling it.
I offer no opinion as to whether it is AT or NT or properly graded.
CG
<< <i>The experts who have seen it in hand (and who have replied in this thread) ALL agree it is NT. Additionally, NGC has deemed it NT.
The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>.
Doug >>
I don't think people who have a different opinion on the coin are losing credibility. Additionally, I don't think most people who express objective doubts about a coin's originality are necessary nothing but color or toning bashers. Thats just too much of a broad brush and there is alot of enhanced crap floating around in holders today whether you care to acknowledge that or not. I think if the coin was listed at $400 versus $4000 there would be a lot less scrutiny. I wasn't a member at that the time of the BEAR post, but I would agree that if posters are expressing different opinions now versus then, that would be hypocritical and suspect.
Basically, birds of a feather flock together
<< <i>I don't need a TPG to tell what's eye appealing and most of the market makers in toned coins don't either so if you think coin doctors will ever be able to fool the TPGs 75% of the time....your fooling yourself
i think you are fooling yourself if you think a dealer has the balls to put
a 4000 price sticker on a raw toned peace dollar and expects
it to sell.
NGC is the leverage to get the ridiculous price. * >>
I agree NGC, or TPG's in general, are the enabling entity in allowing others to sell doctored or otherwise enhanced coins to the collector at outrgeous prices . Without the holder some of those coins would be worth pennies on the dollar. Would the world be better if the TPG's didn't exist ? Probably not. But I expect them to do a better job at screening out AT.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. I for one, only collect coins that I feel have real pretty original toning and I wouldn't touch a coin that I feel has been dipped, and therefore I wouldn't have a problem "bashing" one whenever it came along if I felt it was dipped out of its' skin.
Basically, birds of a feather flock together
Another opinion may be that some of us actually like originality and pretty toning but are dismayed by how manufactured color is impacting the credibility of legitimate color and the long term negative impact that may have on the hobby. As the net of Market Acceptability widens, more money will be put into the hands of sellers and TPG's at the eventual expense of the collector. Everything ultimately comes home to roost.
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. I for one, only collect coins that I feel have real pretty original toning and I wouldn't touch a coin that I feel has been dipped, and therefore I wouldn't have a problem "bashing" one whenever it came along if I felt it was dipped out of its' skin.
Basically, birds of a feather flock together
And then there are some who are just plain clueless and wouldn't know pretty original toning from a box of crayons.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is probably a broad opinion, but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right.
Russ, NCNE >>
I'm SOOOO glad someone mentioned this.
<< <i>This may come as a shock, but it's also possible that we think the coin is cooked. If it displayed only the banded rainbow crescent at the left periphery, I'd be a lot less skeptical. But, I'm not buying that large area of funky blue at the right. >>
Not only that, but my dismay with the ridiculous prices toners are fetching lies primarily with the incentive that it gives the coin cookers to "shake and bake" a lot of coins.
Just I didn't like seeing sometimes attractive NT toners dipped when "blast white" was all the rage, I don't like seeing people ruin perfectly good coins with fake toning in order to try to turn a $50 coin into a $5000 coin. Coin doctoring is coin doctoring, and too many people, because of dogmatic preference to either toners or "white" coins, tend to denounce one a lot more than the other, blasting one form while making excuses (or at least looking the other way) to the other form.
When some people feign to actually know what they're talking about, it becomes more and more entertaining.
<< <i>...That being said, who in their right mind would take that coin with the left originality and incredibly rare toning for a Peace Dollar, and attempt to destroy it by fabricating the right side of the obverse... >>
Um...any skilled coin doctor who thinks he could make more money if the coin had more toning?
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
oh, really?? all i've done is size the pictures for a side by side comparison; they look strikingly similar. if one of the two(Bear's photo or the thread linked eBay photo) was doctored in any way it would be interesting to know how it was done to look like the other picture so closely.
i think bestclser1 had it right and only stated what has become all to apparent here as of late.....................
the coin on the right is Bear's picture, or is it the other way around??
<< <i>
<< <i>...That being said, who in their right mind would take that coin with the left originality and incredibly rare toning for a Peace Dollar, and attempt to destroy it by fabricating the right side of the obverse... >>
Um...any skilled coin doctor who thinks he could make more money if the coin had more toning?
I don't think so. That coin's monster appeal is the left obverse, not the right. The left obverse alone would probably be just as sought after as having the blue toning on the otherside as well. It is no doubt original.
Don't quit your day job
<< <i>but I'm guessing those who feel the need to "bash" this coin or any nicely toned coin, are those who primarily own or collect white coins and/or dipped coins. >>
WRONG! I call them as I see them, and surely you know I don't collect white Bust halves. I did collect and have viewed MANY toned Peace$.
I haven't posted my opinion on this thing. I will say the "Blue" in the right obverse field is troubling. This alone, would make me pass.
Whenever in doubt I believe one should pass. If not, and as I have learned on here the last few years...... "Who cares how it got it's color, if it's pretty and you like it is all that matters." (Thanks PCGS forum) And BTW, this statement is also very nauseating to me. You want any kind of color and don't care how it got there? Someone will make them any color you want. And they do indeed do it.
This thing looks to have Dansco toning from an album on the left side. I would want to really see the reverse. I'd want to see how much of a "skin"
is there. But the "Blue" on the right side? and 4K?
<< <i>The nay-sayers in this thread have not seen the coin in hand thus losing any serious credibility in this argument...c'mon bashers, learn how to effectively debate! <yawn>. >>
Uh huh, This coming from someone that I "Believe" said the Peace-gate thing was the real deal from an image. And something to the effect he knew the color on the Appalachian "HOARD" nickels was real because they displayed the same colors as bag toned Morgans? (Don't quote me on that I'd need to find the thread.)
I questioned your explanation at the time. I forget your "Story" back to me. Same color as bag toned Morgans on wartime nickels that didn't have the same storage conditions? Hmmm, OK because you're one of the "experts." So I know it must be true.
Edit to add a
<< <i><<< I don't think so. That coin's monster appeal is the left obverse, not the right. The left obverse alone would probably be just as sought after as having the blue toning on the otherside as well. It is no doubt original. >>>
Don't quit your day job
Ditto, unless you're a coin dealer.
I was looking at this image when I posted that:
I didn't notice that the seller had also used the previous image shot by greattoning.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
Probably.
IMPO, this coin is either AT'ed or "helped" along with a 2nd toning area (book, album, case) and sped up (heat, sun, gas). my 2 cents.
<< <i>While I will get shot for this....here goes.
IMPO, this coin is either AT'ed or "helped" along with a 2nd toning area (book, album, case) and sped up (heat, sun, gas). my 2 cents. >>
Wow, TBT, I'm impressed you posted an honest opinion. Haven't seen you in a while.
<< <i> You want any kind of color and don't care how it got there? Someone will make them any color you want. And they do indeed do it. >>
This one sold on eBay for $55.00 from our pal. Seems like a deal.
<< <i>If I was the president of NGC, the graders who keep on assigning grades and holdering coins like these Peace dollars would be terminated immediatly. >>
Dragon, if that were the case, you'd probably have to terminate yourself too.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I was the president of NGC, the graders who keep on assigning grades and holdering coins like these Peace dollars would be terminated immediatly. >>
Dragon, if that were the case, you'd probably have to terminate yourself too.
Skilling is currently trying that same excuse by saying that he wasn't aware of any funny accounting going on at Enron. Its not working.
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others.
Link
<< <i>
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others.
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others.
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58."
Steve: What's that at the top of Liberty's cap and at the top of the eagle's beak and across its brow?
Mikey
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
*** Visit Mike De Falco's NEW Coin Talk Blog! ***
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>dizzyfoxx, if you're so confident on this thing, I suggest you buy it, crack it out, and walk the bourse floor and take offers. Please report back with your results. And just to be fair, I'll crack one of my Bust halves, walk the bourse floor and do the same. I wonder if the results would be the same. >>
I love this thread-- The truth is MOST dealers would call a lot of stman's monster toned bust halves AU58 (!) if they were cracked out of their MS-62/3 holders and the Peace Dollar would be called AT with a relutant offer of $200 (bid is $46). Sorry guys, the holder really does affect the price-------- just some coins more than others.
Well, I don't know I have any "Monster" toned Bust halves. Furthermore, I only have one in a mint-state holder. I will show this coin to anybody that knows what they are doing, and I highly doubt they could call this one "AU-58."
Steve: What's that at the top of Liberty's cap and at the top of the eagle's beak and across its brow?
Mikey
Visit Our Website @ www.numisvision.com
Specializing in DMPL Dollars, MONSTER toners and other Premium Quality U.S. Coins
*** Visit Mike De Falco's NEW Coin Talk Blog! ***