There are so many AT coins floating around

Bear · February 21, 2006 5:17AM

That I must assume nothing is NT, Unless I do it myself.

1jester · February 21, 2006 5:19AM

"There are so many AT coins floating around."

You don't say!!

curly · February 21, 2006 5:25AM

That's because people will always supply what other people want.

Coindexter · February 21, 2006 5:44AM

"Market Acceptable" becomes a wider set of parameters every day it seems.

JJM · February 21, 2006 5:50AM

ya think ?

BillJones · February 21, 2006 5:58AM

How many angles can dance on the head of a pin?

The answer is the number of AT coins in numismatic circulation is growning with the number of collectors and dollars that are chasing after them.

Look, I like nicely toned coins too, but you guys are taking this to the point where sanity has left the market.

MikeInFL · February 21, 2006 5:59AM

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

SUPERCARCOINS · February 21, 2006 6:05AM

...it used to be the TPG's would not holder a coin if it was even possibly

suspicious.............

now , their holdering the stuff like it's going out of style

keets · February 21, 2006 6:31AM

as i said in another thread which was generally scoffed at, this whole AT thing and the prices paid for toned coins will eventually run it's course and become it's own worst enemy.

CTcollector · February 21, 2006 6:31AM

The flood gates have certainly opened. There must have been a change in policy/tolerance..... There is no other way to rationally explain it - Some of these AT jobs are so obvious.

Colorfulcoins · February 21, 2006 6:38AM

I have seen more coins I consider to be AT in the last 4 months then I've seen in previous 4 years combined. Many are in NGC holders.....I like them but I've never seen coins like this before and now suddenly, there they are in TPG holders! Crazy man, crazy.....

CTcollector · February 21, 2006 6:47AM

<< I have seen more coins I consider to be AT in the last 4 months then I've seen in previous 4 years combined. Many are in NGC holders.....I like them but I've never seen coins like this before and now suddenly, there they are in TPG holders! Crazy man, crazy.....

>>

Same exact observation. WTF is going on ?

ziggy29 · February 21, 2006 6:47AM

As long as people are willing to pay $500 for a $20 coin because of the toning, this will only continue.

And as for the TPGs, well, you have to keep finding new coins to submit in order to keep making money. So maybe the definition of "market acceptable" is become dumbed down.

FatMan · February 21, 2006 7:14AM

HRH recently wrote:

<< The guiding concept on artifical toning (and many other no-grades) is "clear and convincing evidence." If a grader is fairly certain the coin is AT he will not grade it. If he's just "sort of suspicious he'll put a grade on it. >>

I believe this is a shift in position from years gone by where suspicion was the standard for bagging.

BillJones · February 21, 2006 8:16AM

Sadly the fact that PCGS decided to toss proper grading procedures to the wind and cross the Goodacre dollars with grades on them not less

and then include these coins in their competitive registry list shows how far TPGs are willing to go to collect some additional fees. It’s a sad state of affairs, and it could be something that could bite the TPGs in the butt if they extend this policy to questionable toned coins.

As collectors and as people who have a big financial stake in the coin market, we don’t need this crap. Responsible collectors should not support these markets and make it clear that they are disappointed in the leading grading services for doing so.

kiyote · February 21, 2006 8:26AM

Half my coin purchases come straight from the US mint! No questioning originality there.

Fairlaneman · February 21, 2006 8:27AM

<< I have seen more coins I consider to be AT in the last 4 months then I've seen in previous 4 years combined. Many are in NGC holders.....I like them but I've never seen coins like this before and now suddenly, there they are in TPG holders! Crazy man, crazy.....

>>

Only the last 4 months with NGC ? If its not AT then its conserved white junk.

Ken

BillJones · February 21, 2006 8:35AM

<< Only the last 4 months with NGC ? If its not AT then its conserved white junk. >>

NGC had problems with AT coins years and years ago. It was one of the big reasons why their bids for silver coins were so much lower on the Blue Sheet than PCGS's bids. For a while they cleaned up their act (or learned to tell NT from AT), but sadly of late it seems like they a slipping back into their old ways.

Hadleydog · February 21, 2006 9:12AM

<< The guiding concept on artifical toning (and many other no-grades) is "clear and convincing evidence." If a grader is fairly certain the coin is AT he will not grade it. If he's just "sort of suspicious he'll put a grade on it. >>

That kind of statement sure gives a collector a lot of confidence. Still, education and familiarity within a series will enable you to make the final decision. Not really any different than learning to grade and becoming fairly independant of what the insert says. JMHO.

FullStrike · February 23, 2006 8:54AM

Is the term " floater" taken in the Numismatic vocabulary? If not then I think it would be appropriate to now define " floater" as a toned Coin which on first impression would impress one as being very AT. There would be enough characteristics of an NT coin that the major TPG's would go ahead and certify it.

dizzyfoxx · February 23, 2006 9:04AM

<< as i said in another thread which was generally scoffed at, this whole AT thing and the prices paid for toned coins will eventually run it's course and become it's own worst enemy. >>

Granted, there's been some issues in the past of these little AT "devils" making it into TPG holders, but generally speaking, as long as a given monster toned coin is housed in a PCGS or NGC slab, it will always command high $, regardless of where the market may be. For some collectors, it may hurt for the few who dislike or simply don't collect the toners, but the reality of it is, the toned monsters are unique and precious treasures that will always be in high demand. The white coins, dipped or not, are just far too common in comparison. JMHO

roadrunner · February 23, 2006 9:50AM

The conservers are dipping and stripping them faster than the AT boys can fake 'em. It's a horse race in the end to see who can ruin the market first. I think the strippers have the edge.

roadrunner

RYK · February 23, 2006 10:08AM

According to Ron Guth in his recent Coin World column (Feb. 27, 2006), the craze for toned coins has come and gone before and will likely do so again.

Quoting:

"Years ago, toned silver coins were considered to be desirable and collectors often paid big premiums for them.

A short time later, the emergence of artifical toning created enough confusion in the marketplace that prices collapsed and toned coins became extremely unpopular."

If I did not know better, I would have thought he was talking about the 2005/6 coin market in 2010.

Colorfulcoins · February 23, 2006 1:25PM

Myqqy · February 23, 2006 1:54PM

The conservers are dipping and stripping them faster than the AT boys can fake 'em. It's a horse race in the end to see who can ruin the market first. I think the strippers have the edge.

That's been my belief as well.....

raycyca · February 23, 2006 10:15PM

In a way I'd rather have a nicely colored coin even though AT, than a stripped/dull overdiped coin. NOT for my set, but just to look at if it's pretty and CHEAP! Most of my toned coins are fairly dull in color by comparison to these MONSTER toned AT coins we are seeing now a days. The bright and most beautiful toners I have, are from well documented places/sales such as the original Binion sales. When searching for coins for my sets, I pick ones with original skins. The originals are too dull for some so they get them and dip them out. They are destrying history.

We as a collective must stop this madness some way. We can't boycott them in any way because there is such a demand. BUT, if we refuse to pay $14K for a $1K coin, this would be a great start. Perhaps we can post these monster toned coins here on the boards for opinions. Perhaps we can have some of the sleuths uncover the origination of these coins. That would help guide us perhaps with authenticity and help establish a pricing guide. If we see a coin was bought for $55 and now it's priced at $2K, people might offer a more reasonable bid for the coin. I'm just trying to offer a possible soloution. I don't mind if the toned market crashes. That way more coins won't get destroyed and those that are original will be easier to afford. Ray

There are so many AT coins floating around

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