Has grading been considered tight lately, or are we slipping again?
pursuitofliberty
Posts: 7,295 ✭✭✭✭✭
I read a lot ... and I know some of you submit a lot ... and generally what I've heard is how stingy PCGS has been lately.
But I'll tell you what I've seen over he last few months, which is no indication of all the coins out there because I haven't been to a show in over a year unfortunately, but it is not stingy. Unforunately it is quite the contrary. And, frankly it concerns me, because the trend I have seen has not been just in the last three months.
I have bid and won several Mercury Dimes over the past three months from various sources, all have been graded over the last year by PCGS (based on the insert numbers), and all have been pathetic dogs in Gem holders. All, incluing the one I hold today, have been (will be) returned.
Were they screened by a sight seen intermediary? No.
But with a picture/scan and a grade gauruntee and a reputable company such as PCGS, who has graded almost every coin I have ever sent them correctly, I am shocked and amazed.
I wish I had good pictures of every one of them.
How pathetic you ask? The one I have in my hands that arrived today is over-dipped, minutely hairlined and spot removed (and not just by the dip - noticeable surface marks showing where the spotting was {still is}). It is in a MS65FB holder. The got the FB right, it's got one heck of a strike ... but the coin is at best a 63 (IMO) ... and probably should have bagged for cleaning.
Four of the last five have had the same type problems, including one that was a D mint in a P mint holder. That one was a 64, that had enough hairline scruff to be a 58 in my book, and not a keeper at that.
So I ask you, are the grades tight ... or are the expectations changed?
But I'll tell you what I've seen over he last few months, which is no indication of all the coins out there because I haven't been to a show in over a year unfortunately, but it is not stingy. Unforunately it is quite the contrary. And, frankly it concerns me, because the trend I have seen has not been just in the last three months.
I have bid and won several Mercury Dimes over the past three months from various sources, all have been graded over the last year by PCGS (based on the insert numbers), and all have been pathetic dogs in Gem holders. All, incluing the one I hold today, have been (will be) returned.
Were they screened by a sight seen intermediary? No.
But with a picture/scan and a grade gauruntee and a reputable company such as PCGS, who has graded almost every coin I have ever sent them correctly, I am shocked and amazed.
I wish I had good pictures of every one of them.
How pathetic you ask? The one I have in my hands that arrived today is over-dipped, minutely hairlined and spot removed (and not just by the dip - noticeable surface marks showing where the spotting was {still is}). It is in a MS65FB holder. The got the FB right, it's got one heck of a strike ... but the coin is at best a 63 (IMO) ... and probably should have bagged for cleaning.
Four of the last five have had the same type problems, including one that was a D mint in a P mint holder. That one was a 64, that had enough hairline scruff to be a 58 in my book, and not a keeper at that.
So I ask you, are the grades tight ... or are the expectations changed?
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
0
Comments
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Loose/Tight talk with regards to the grading services is 99.9% hogwash, if you ask me.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
pharmer ... I wish I could capture the problems of the one I have in hand better with my camera, but since I effectively do not own the coin ... nor do I want to ... I think making the expose public would not be in my best interest
BigD ... Darin, thanks for your thoughts ... they echo mine as well
Are we still experiencing gradeflation? I mean, we saw some of it in the early 90's in the further acceptance of Gem to Superb grades ... a little more in the later 90's as more circulated early pieces were submitted ... is it still ongoing with other series? (I know this one is hard to answer, but maybe some people who have been around a while who have been more active in grading and trading than I can chime in)
Is PCGS allowing over-conserved coins on a more frequent basis, even now into the 20th Century issues?
And maybe this ... at what point does the loss of luster/tampering of surfaces negate a Gem grade? (Okay, that one probably can't be answered!)
editted to add ...
Baley ... if the last five I've seen (again graded this year) are tight ... I need to resubmit all my Merc's 'cause I'm sitting on a gold mine!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I have not bought any new Mercs so I cannot help you out with the question.
Ken
What happens is that the good stuff that comes back to dealers gets pulled and sold to their best customers, and then they dump the less desirable material on the open market.
Oh, in answer to your question; for what I collect PCGS is the tightest they've been in the almost four years I've been submitting.
Russ, NCNE
could this lead to even more submissions???
could this lead to increased revenues???
could this lead to an increased projection for wall street??
could this lead to the stock going up???
could this lead to stock options being in the money??
if you answered yes to all of the above ...you gettin it!!
and one more
could this lead to coins going across the street???
ah...yeah!!!...
so that where they all went....
buy the coin not the holder
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Hell, maybe I just need new glasses or to wait until I can make the next show
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
i dont necessarily agree......because 80 % of my coins are ngc star * coins....and i think i know what im doing....therefore all of them would cross to pcgs....but i have to tell ya i dont like the games pcgs plays so i dont...besides monster toned coins look much better in white than clear....the tpg are simple to understand.... they create wealth and they dont want to put a coin in the right holder making you 10,000 on an upgrade for a 100 dollar fee...thus the rediculous tuffness for multiple submissions...thus the no bs line of 500 would be great...4 submissons later and they make 2,000 and the submitter nets 8,000
thats the game..ot you could just leave them where they are and in a year or so they will go up the first time..its called gradeflation....
what you have to do is know whee your coin fiits in relation to the rest of the pop...and if you believe its the best and it indeed is....it will always be the best....the best of the 66s.....then 67s....then 68s...then 69s....then 70....what happens next????i think i know
monsterman
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Over-dipping kills a coin IMO as it seriously impairs the luster.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>There is a tendency to judge the grading of a TPG by what one finds available in the various public venues. For example, if you were to judge PCGS early moderns only by what appears on Teletrade you might assume they are very loose. That assumption would be incorrect.
What happens is that the good stuff that comes back to dealers gets pulled and sold to their best customers, and then they dump the less desirable material on the open market.
Oh, in answer to your question; for what I collect PCGS is the tightest they've been in the almost four years I've been submitting.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with Russ. Coins submitted in my own specialty are as tight as they have been. A lot of the stuff that shows up in certain auctions is unappealing sediment that was deposited there to get rid of it.
I needed to rant, and get a little feedback. Some of you are quite right of course ... and this is all probably part of the sheer amount of mistakes that are out there, and these coins that I have had to return recently will be part of that group.
Like many of us who don't have decent shows to attend within a couple hundred miles more than once or twice a year, and busy schedules and such ... and who don't collect the caliber of coins that most of the majors pursue ... I have become too reliant on the "picture-seen" aspect of initiating a purchase ... although I am always careful to insure a return policy, just in case. Fortuantely (or unfortuantely; depending on how you view it), I have got to use that option a lot lately.
In letting this roll around in my head over the last 24 hours, I think I will have to intiate some changes.
But I guess I wonder too, what the heck ever happens to these coins? Are there that many "plastic buyers"? Do they get broken out and resubmitted, only to find that they are not Gem's (or whatever grade) after all (as I would hope the second time around the problems might get caught)?
As newmismatist pointed out in his excellent thread about a good loupe, one of the problem coins he found was in a top ranked registry set.
Anyway, thanks again
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242