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Loss of tax exemption hurting coin business in Ohio
Michigan
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From a local news report:
Ron Nelson, promoter of the Ohio coin expo Aug. 19-21
"...reservations for his Ohio Coin Expo, scheduled for Aug.19-21 in Cleveland, are slow in
coming and he blames it on the tax. In Cuyahoga County, home to the show, the
sales tax is 7 1/2%, including 2 % the county adds to the state's 5 1/2% share. "I'm sure
a lot of the out-of-town dealers may or may not have heard about it. There are a lot of shows
around the country. Those shows will boom. Our shows will whither," Nelson said.
Call it the Tom Noe effect or fallout.
Ron Nelson, promoter of the Ohio coin expo Aug. 19-21
"...reservations for his Ohio Coin Expo, scheduled for Aug.19-21 in Cleveland, are slow in
coming and he blames it on the tax. In Cuyahoga County, home to the show, the
sales tax is 7 1/2%, including 2 % the county adds to the state's 5 1/2% share. "I'm sure
a lot of the out-of-town dealers may or may not have heard about it. There are a lot of shows
around the country. Those shows will boom. Our shows will whither," Nelson said.
Call it the Tom Noe effect or fallout.
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Comments
If you are honest and charge it on the bill, no one will buy from you. If you include it in the price, your prices are too high or you can't make anything in a business where the mark-ups range from 10 to 20 percent.
And in the mean time a lot of guys around you are ignoring the law and eating your lunch. It's why I don't bother to set up in states with sales taxes any more.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
BTW Kranky, most states don't have the tax people around like that, but given PA's attitude, I'm not surprised that they do that. Ditto for New York State.
Wow, 7.5% tax in Cleveland? No way I'd live there. You get taxed big with state and federal income taxes. Then you are taxed again when you spend what is left over.
FrederickCoinClub
<< <i>Next election, vote Libertarian... >>
... And help put more liberal Democrats in office.
It's a great political strategy for liberalism. Divide your opponents and conquer them. It worked well for Bill Clinton in 1992 when that little troll, Ross Perot, helped put Slick Wilie in the White House.
It will be interesting to see how many dealers attend and what the attendence is.
Note about the 7.5% tax, it was lowered it was 8% till July 1st.
I want to see how they charge tax on a $8 Barber half.
Are there any shows in Michigan or Indiana that would be close for me to drive to that would be tax free.
<< <i>... And help put more liberal Democrats in office.
It's a great political strategy for liberalism. Divide your opponents and conquer them. It worked well for Bill Clinton in 1992 when that little troll, Ross Perot, helped put Slick Wilie in the White House.
I would point out that Ross Perot was nowhere near a Libertarian. Also, Libertarian candidates tend to siphon votes from both parties. We're not, as Will Durst says, just Republicans who smoke dope. There are more directions that just right and left.
Perot pulled more votes from the Republican camp than he did the liberal camp. That's my point.
And if you think that there are a big bunch of liberals who are going to vote for a libertarian, you are smokin' dope.
The core of liberalism is high taxes, big government and lots of regulation. About the only things that liberals and libertarians can agree upon is abortion and MAYBE the right to smoke dope.
I ask, because here in California, if you spend $1,000 plus, there is an exclusion from the purchase being subject to sales tax. Also, if a business is in the state for less than X number of days (think it's 15), they are not required to register with the sales tax people and then be forced to file monthly / quarterly / annual sales tax reports. California's exceptions make it possible for the average dealer to do a few shows here each year and not get slammed.
BTW, I'm surprised that the City Business License people aren't all over coin shows. Most cities have a gross receipts tax for entities that do business within the city limits. So theoretically, if a city charges $1 per $1,000 of sales with a $100 annual minimum, they should nail every dealer who walks into a coin show held in their jurisdiction for the $100 each year.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I known becuase I went to college in Newark, NJ. I did well. I only got mugged once ...
<< <i>The core of liberalism is high taxes, big government and lots of regulation. >>
Remind me again how that is different from our current Republican regime.
Believe it or not, John Kerry was this Libertarian's second choice in 2004.
<< <i>BTW, I'm surprised that the City Business License people aren't all over coin shows. Most cities have a gross receipts tax for entities that do business within the city limits. So theoretically, if a city charges $1 per $1,000 of sales with a $100 annual minimum, they should nail every dealer who walks into a coin show held in their jurisdiction for the $100 each year. >>
That happened last spring in Dothan, AL. On Friday, the County tax people came to the show and required every dealer to buy a $30 "Transient Peddlers" license, then on Saturday the City tax people came to the show and required every dealer with the license to pay $100 for the "Transient Peddlers" tax! At that point most dealers packed up and left without paying.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
<< <i>Next election, vote Libertarian... >>
I already do! As you said, Ross Perot was not or is a Libertarian. He was and probably still is a very pissed off Republican who had and still has enough money to mount or back a third party canidate. He dearly wanted to be recognized by senior George Bush with a cabinet position or ambassadorship for all the money he had donated through out the years. When he saw that he was being pushed into the background he felt he was having his bluff called. Bad move on senior G.B.'s part and we all know the outcome.
As for taxes hurting shows in Ohio, it will. How do people in Houston feel about their shows? Well attended? I don't and won't buy from any dealer in Texas if it's under the $1000 cut off.
Jerry
<< <i>Don't try to come in our house when we're not around >>
That's precisely why you need them to live in the cities that I mentioned.
If you tax the class out of the community, all you have left is riff-raff.
<< <i>From a local news report:
Ron Nelson, promoter of the Ohio coin expo Aug. 19-21
"...reservations for his Ohio Coin Expo, scheduled for Aug.19-21 in Cleveland, are slow in
coming and he blames it on the tax. In Cuyahoga County, home to the show, the
sales tax is 7 1/2%, including 2 % the county adds to the state's 5 1/2% share. "I'm sure
a lot of the out-of-town dealers may or may not have heard about it. There are a lot of shows
around the country. Those shows will boom. Our shows will whither," Nelson said.
Call it the Tom Noe effect or fallout. >>
I wouldn't call that the Tom Noe effect. I'd call the fact that you won't see rare coins show up in any gummint investment portfolio anytime soon the Tom Noe effect. The fact that the Noe soap opera led to the repeal of the tax exemption is the Bureaucratus ignoratii effect, the fallout of which will be the languishing of the coin business in Ohio.
It will be interesting to see how next year's CSNS convention, scheduled to be held in Columbus, goes.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Tell me about it, being I live in Cleveland, I have been looking forward to this show for months now. There are also two shows in October in Cleveland.
It will be interesting to see how many dealers attend and what the attendence is.
Note about the 7.5% tax, it was lowered it was 8% till July 1st.
I want to see how they charge tax on a $8 Barber half.
Are there any shows in Michigan or Indiana that would be close for me to drive to that would be tax free. >>
CSNS fall show (actually held in the summer) Aug.26-28 in Dearborn, Michigan at the
Hyatt Regency hotel just off the Southfield Freeway.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
BTW, don't shed any tears for Mr. Nelson. he's been playing both sides against the middle for years and years, one of the few shows ANYWHERE to charge attendees an entry fee. there are also legions of whiners who complain about the fee and boycott his sponsored shows. oh well, collectors are strange birds, aren't they?? they'll spend hundreds on coins at the risk of losing tens-of-dollars and not care, it's a hobby remember, i'm in it for fun!!!! yet they'll gripe about a $4 twice yearly entry fee to go buy those coins. GEEZ, i piss away more than that each week on coffee from the vending machines at work!!
put things in perspective and quit the petty griping.
PURPLE!
<< <i>In reading the thread, it sounds as though this is a preexisting tax and unrelated to Noe. Is that correct?? >>
Not exactly. The tax exemption went into effect in 1989 through the lobbying efforts of Mr. Noe and
became known as the "Noe amendment". Democrats have been trying for some time to repeal the
amendment but Republicans blocked it. When the Noe fiasco hit the media, attitudes of Republicans
started to change and they stopped their opposition to getting rid of the tax exemption.
Noe's name is political poison in Ohio right now and nobody wanted to look like they were
supporting something with his name attached to it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Next election, vote Libertarian... >>
... And help put more liberal Democrats in office.
It's a great political strategy for liberalism. Divide your opponents and conquer them. It worked well for Bill Clinton in 1992 when that little troll, Ross Perot, helped put Slick Wilie in the White House.
It was a republican dominated state house that put the coin tax back in the budget bill in Ohio...an obious ploy to try and help bail out Mr. Taft's sorry stay in the statehouse.
Also, I don't know about you but, say what you will, I was a whole lot better off when Clinton was in the White House than since. And I am not republican nor democrat...I'm American.
Indiana will be glad to get the business.
I don't really understand your comment. I neither feel safer or less safer. I think that our state is not as well governed as it could be, and that is not entirely due to local control. Local folks are sometimes bear the brunt of big thinking people who have only their own interests at heart.
you would become famous as the coin dealer who only barters when you bring gold.
this might be the one venue where it could possibly work. (seeing coin collectors understand gold i suppose).
since you traded, no taxes. go home and sell your gold.
:-) (dumb idea i know, but i like to day dream.)