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Hypothetical #1 - European Vacation
MrEureka
Posts: 24,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
First in a series.
Suppose you're a novice collector vacationing in Europe. You stumble on a little antique shop and find a really nice looking 1908 $5 Indian priced at 300 euros. You bargain with the owner and pay $250. You bring it home and show it to you local dealer and he wants to buy it. He tells you he grades it 64 and offers you $3000. You sell it. A month later, he calls you and tells you PCGS bodybagged it as a fake. Do you give him his money back?
Suppose you're a novice collector vacationing in Europe. You stumble on a little antique shop and find a really nice looking 1908 $5 Indian priced at 300 euros. You bargain with the owner and pay $250. You bring it home and show it to you local dealer and he wants to buy it. He tells you he grades it 64 and offers you $3000. You sell it. A month later, he calls you and tells you PCGS bodybagged it as a fake. Do you give him his money back?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Chris
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and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The dealer had a chance to ask for cerification before he purchases it.
Also, what if the coin came back as MS66, would the dealer pay me the difference between MS64 money and MS66 money?
I would expect the same from a dealer as well. I would also expect dealer to dealer honor authentication failures.
I already spent the money, so he is SOL
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Either that or you go to jail, it's illegal to sell fake coins/currency. (However, I would have sent it into ANACS for authentiaction before even considering selling it. Actually, I never would have purchased it in the first place for more than a few bucks.)
It was a fake!! Man you guys are vicious.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Give him/her their cash back (if it is the same coin).
EVEN though he/she should know better/checked, I think not giving them their money back would result in bad blood.
If it was just a grading issue, that would be his/her problem.
~g
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
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Having said that: If this is a dealer that you have a long time relationship with
AND you believe that he wouldn't switch the coins on you
AND you are financially able to refund the money
I'd offer to give him his money back minus the amount you paid in the first place.
He is off the hook for the big loss, and you are not out any $
What should the novice say "Yeah you were stupid, here's your money back?"
That's the answer.....
Chicolini: Mint? No, no, I no like a mint. Uh - what other flavor you got?
42/92
Yeah, right. The same way he'd give you the extra $ if it came back as a 66. Nevertheless, let your conscience be your guide.
Tiger trout, Deerfield River, c. 2001.
Honestly I am surprised by some of the people here who said to keep the money.
njcc
That said, I don't think you're obligated to refund the money. It's just the right thing to do.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Either that or you go to jail, it's illegal to sell fake coins/currency. (However, I would have sent it into ANACS for authentiaction before even considering selling it. Actually, I never would have purchased it in the first place for more than a few bucks.) >>
He's the expert. Who is to say that PCGS knows more about coins than him? In fact, if this went into litigation, it would be hilarious to watch him talk down his own expertise. "Your honor, I thought it was real, but I don't really know what I'm doing. I mean, just because I'm a coin dealer doesn't mean I'm an expert. Really, I'm just a novice in the business." Get a statement like that out in open court and he can kiss his business goodbye--who will go to a dealer who isn't confident in his own knowledge?
No money back on this one--and just try sending me to jail. Good luck on that.
EDITED to add:
<< <i>Heck no, if the dealer is stupid enough to pay three grand for a fake, he should find a new profession.
What should the novice say "Yeah you were stupid, here's your money back?"
>>
That's exactly what 12 men and women in the jury box would say, too.
#1 customer sold $3 to shop who sold it to #2 customer 30 minutes later. #2 schlepped it past PCGS at LB.
Coin was fake. Had nice crud too
Dealer gave back ALL money to #2 and dealer called #1 --who made up the difference to dealer between bullion value and what #1 got from dealer.
So I would say that no matter what happens--you HAVE to be responsible for what YOU sell to anybody. Look close when you buy and you'll be eating less fakes for dinner.
Why should we have to do what they did?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
If the coin had come back to the dealer and authentic as a 65 or 66, would the dealer split the profits...same answer you give will apply to refunding the money on the coin.
Tyler
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The dealer is responsible for his own purchases.