Best storage method for slabs in a safe deposit box?
dwsblue
Posts: 151
It's time to move my coins to a safe deposit box. what is the best way to store the coins, Intercept Shields, PCGS blue boxes, Silica.........? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Thanks.
"You don't need no gypsy to tell you why, you can't let one precious day slip by" G. Allman
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So far (several years) this seems to be working well.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>
Brent Krueger
I also use the Intercept Shield boxes for the PCGS Slabs in the Safety Deposit Box.
Your good to go!
Best thing out there in my opinion. His prices are very reasonable and he ships SUPER FAST.
In fact, I just ordered two more for my collection earlier this a.m.
Good luck!
<< <i>
<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>
Brent Krueger >>
Don't waste your money. Go any pet store and buy the cat litter that is 100% crystal silica. Use coffee filters and rubber bands to make up your own packets.
<< <i>I use the intercept shield boxes for PCGS slabs. Then I add a silica gel pack to keep the humidity down.
So far (several years) this seems to be working well. >>
The only way to go..............
TorinoCobra71
Billy
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>Use coffee filters and rubber bands >>
Rubber bands are a "NO-NO". They have a high sulfur content......
Billy
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>
Brent Krueger >>
Don't waste your money. Go any pet store and buy the cat litter that is 100% crystal silica. Use coffee filters and rubber bands to make up your own packets. >>
I was just reading that all litters are not created equal - some "100%" litters may contain "low-grade silica". I imagine it is best to employ a product intended for this use, aspecially with valuables. MrSpud may know more about this.
Billy
<< <i>Someone please explain to me how a coin in a slab is going to tone from a rubber band inches away. I've used this method for years in my boxes and none of the coins in slabs have rubber band marks. >>
Why would they - you are describing the results of direct contact. It is outgassing that is being discussed here I think - something wood, paper and other materials do, especially as they age, that can be detrimental to a coin in a concentrated closed (possibly humid) enironment like a deposit box.
Billy
<< <i>Someone please explain to me how a coin in a slab is going to tone from a rubber band inches away. I've used this method for years in my boxes and none of the coins in slabs have rubber band marks. >>
But they're toned!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
or gravel
"Corrosive pressure sensitive adhesive tapes and rubber bands can affect brilliant coins even when separated from them by a plastic bag. Copper and silver alloy coins stored in sealed polyethylene film bags were contacted on their exterior sides with several different types of pressure sensitive tapes and rubber bands. For test comparison, similar coins were stored in polyethylene film bags without tapes or rubber bands in contact with their exterior sides. An examination of the coins three months later, revealed that the coins in the polyethylene film bags with tapes and rubber in contact with their exterior sides had been attacked far beyond their normal rates. This indicated that the corrosive gaseous vapors given off by the adhesives and rubber had permeated the plastic bags and attacked the surfaces of the coins within."
I personally have some slabs in intercept boxes inside a sealed freezer bag with silica gel dessicant in the bag in a bank safety deposit box. I used a handful of pharmaceutical grade silica packs (the little packets that they put into bottles of pharmaceutical tablets) because I just happened to have some handy. I am not familiar with Kitty litter silica gel, but I like the idea of using cheap silica. However, it may not be quite as absorptive if it already contains some moisture (I don't know if it does or doesn't). I suppose it could be baked to dry it thoroughly just like regular silica gel even if it already contains some moisture and it probably would be very good Link to drying instructions. Also, you can get humidity indicating cards pretty cheap if you want to be sure the silica is doing it's job. I imagine that unless you have a way of measuring how dry the enlosed area is that you are just guessing that you are controlling humidity because any silica can already contain moisture and then it can't absorb much more. Probably the cheap silica in an inert container with a humidity indicating card would be very good. I remember reading that under 40% RH is good but that under 30% is ideal. I just ordered some humidity indicating cards from IMPAK link . I also ordered some large foil ziplock bags foil ziplock bag from the same place that I am going to use to store some albums of brilliant coins in. The coins are either in Dansco albums with the corrosion resistant slipcases or in intercept albums. I'm going to put in the albums along with some dessicant and probably a humidity indicating card so that I can check the humidity level anytime I open the bag.
<< <i>I wasn't really familiar with silica gel as cat litter, so I just looked it up. Some of them like Cat Litter Silica Gel are silica gel which should make a good dessicant unless it already has absorbed too much moisture but some others like Cat Litter Diatomaceous Silica are actually diatomaceous silica which wouldn't be a good dessicant.
Yeah, what Spud said
Billy
PS - in all seriousness, people would do well to learn about different types of materials normally considered safe - even acid free paper will become acidic in time. We talked about rubber bands, same thing only worse for some paints and varnishes etc. all sorts of materials can pose a problem used in the wrong way or for the wrong thing.
There were no slabs, no safety deposit boxes, no humidiy control, etc.. Are we going to far in our efforts?
<< <i>What on earth did coin collectors do 100 years ago? >>
I remember reading in the book Coin Chemistry that some of the best preserved coins from those days were stored in metal tins.
Also, some climates are naturally lower in humidity than others. I imagine that someone out in Phoenix would never have any use for dessicants.
Also, corrosive atmospheric pollution is much more prevelant in many places today than 100 years ago.
I don't think it is going to far for brilliant white coins (if you want them to stay that way) or for valuable coins to protect them from pollution and humidity. However, it is also fun to see how some inexpensive ones tone using less protective storage techniques.
<< <i>
<< <i>What on earth did coin collectors do 100 years ago? >>
I remember reading in the book Coin Chemistry that some of the best preserved coins from those days were stored in metal tins. >>
For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper!
Billy
I learned a couple of years ago that rubber bands and proof silver coins do not mix. I mistakenly put a couple of raw proofs in Safe-flips and put a wide rubber band around them to keep them together. My plan was to submit them to PCGS in a month or so. Well, I got delayed and after about 90 days, the proofs showed a dark streak where the rubber band was in contact with the flips. I didn't believe it at first, but it was clearly the result of the sulfur in the bands. I no longer let rubber bands come close to any proofs.
Slabs may be a different matter, but why take the chance? My safery deposit boxes contain no rubber or other protential sources of sulfur.
Cameonut
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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Billy
<< <i>For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper! >>
You think the copper is absorbing the corrosive agents leaving the paint better preserved? As a reminder, intercept shield works because it has copper particles imbedded into absorbant fibers.
Oh yeah, that reminds me that I should mention that the Coin Chemistry book recommended putting a few loose clean copper coins into any bag/container as sacrificial corrosion absorbers and as indicators that corrosive agents are present. So if you se that the copper coins are darkening you know that something is attacking the coins and can take preventative measures. The idea is that copper is more reactive than other metals and also because the copper is loose that other coins in holders will take longer to be exposed than the loose coins. I am currently using copper foil strips for this purpose in some of my containers that I am storing coins in. I like the foil better than coins because the coil can easily be sanded about once a year to keep its surface really reactive (and also because I don't want to sacrifice copper coins
<< <i>
<< <i>For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper! >>
You think the copper is absorbing the corrosive agents leaving the paint better preserved? As a reminder, intercept shield works because it has copper particles imbedded into absorbant fibers.
Oh yeah, that reminds me that I should mention that the Coin Chemistry book recommended putting a few loose clean copper coins into any bag/container as sacrificial corrosion absorbers and as indicators that corrosive agents are present. So if you se that the copper coins are darkening you know that something is attacking the coins and can take preventative measures. The idea is that copper is more reactive than other metals and also because the copper is loose that other coins in holders will take longer to be exposed than the loose coins. I am currently using copper foil strips for this purpose in some of my containers that I am storing coins in. I like the foil better than coins because the coil can easily be sanded about once a year to keep its surface really reactive (and also because I don't want to sacrifice copper coins
No, I was speaking of the tin in that analogy actually. Copper panels react less to environment (in comparison to linen and wood) so paint films undergo less exspansion and contraction etc. - something like the tin container of the coin you mentioned - it "attracted" less trouble due to the innate nature of the material so the coin inside is in good shape - the copper panel attracts less water than linen (hygroscopicity) - leaving well preserved paint films.. Metals in the right circumstances, like beeswax, can be incredibly permanent.
Billy
Billy
Consider England isn't exactly DRY!! AMAZING!!
Look what happens inside a metal container in 200 years - NOTHING!!
Also, Intercept makes a ziplock polybag too, in addition to the boxes, etc.
Didn't I read that Lakesamman used to wrap his IHC collection in a copper wire mesh?
Oh, and here is a link to a place selling the intercept poly bags impregnated with copper Link . It is the only place I ever saw them for sale.
For me, I would rather learn about the surface chemistry and preservation techniques of coins than I would about varieties or double dies or similar minutiae. I have trouble paying attention for more than a few minutes to things like minute differences in die pairings or minute differences that took place in the making of the dies in one part of the year. I still try to learn some of the varieties though, just because I know that they are more valuable. I just have trouble getting or staying excited by them. But I can read about surface preservation and corrosion or toning for extended periods without losing interest.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
white to gold. I think the gold toning was a result of wrapping the slabs in a canvas bank bag inside
my box.
Steve
<< <i>Make sure you throw in some silica gel. A couple of my NGC slabbed Barber dimes turned from blast
white to gold. I think the gold toning was a result of wrapping the slabs in a canvas bank bag inside
my box.
Steve >>
Hi Steve,
Silica gel will not help you much there. The canvas, cotton really, outgasses sulphur as it ages and degrades - this was what toned your coins, not moisture per se, although that helped for sure. Boxes can be bad, or good - partly depending what is in there with them. You showed, to an extreme, why one should nevcer have paper in a box - it will also outgass, as will a ton of other things. A lot of people don't believe any of this it seems. Oh well.
Billy
450g silica cell from Amos
After reading this informative thread I will do a few things with my safety deposit boxes:
1. Remove my plastic bags holding rubber bands and stickers.
2. Remove my paperwork.
3. Insert a large dessicant bag into each deposit box.
I didn't see anyone talking about ordinary cardboard mailing boxes or the 2X2 cardboard boxes. Anyone know if these boxes should not be inside the safety deposit boxes?
I see no difference between the Intercept Shield and normal careful preservation as of yet.
Resurrecting this old thread because I've got a couple of fireproof, waterproof, airtite boxes inside a HOME safe.
I've had one for years but got a duplicate off eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fire-Safe-Chest-Waterproof-Fireproof-Box-Security-Key-Lock-Home-Sentry-Portable-/152701975166?var=&hash=item238dbf3a7e:m:mYfIrzq0lAbKDuDMwTDjI-A
They hold 2 PCGS or NGC 20 boxes sitting sideways with no lids.
There's room for a small dessicant bag and I'm wondering if that is a good thing to use in a completely airtite environment.
The SDB is full of plastic boxes with gold bullion coins and no particular other care because I don't think about their toning or whatever.
What think?
I guess my storage methods are on the primitive side. I store the best coins in NGC boxes without the lids. The lower priced pieces are protected with plastic sleeves to cut down on the scratches. I keep the rubber bands and other sulfur laden things out of the boxes.
I have not had any problems with toning from temperature changes for many years. Back in the 1970s I had my collection stored in a bank vault with the boxes backed by outside wall. It was in northern New Jersey and the temperatures went up and down like crazy in the bank vault. I did have some issues then.
Since then I have used larger banks with the vault in the center of the building. The temperatures are controlled, and I’ve had no problems.
BTW for whatever reason I’ve seen more rubber band burns on Bryan comparative silver dollars than any other pieces. And yes, those things are nasty. Only a hammer and a chisel will remove them; acid won’t cut it.
I couldn't change the silica desiccant container in my SDB often enough; the vault was just too humid. so now I put a bunch of slabs in a ziplock bag with the desiccant and that seems to do the job ok.