Best storage method for slabs in a safe deposit box?

dwsblue

It's time to move my coins to a safe deposit box. what is the best way to store the coins, Intercept Shields, PCGS blue boxes, Silica.........? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Cameonut

I use the intercept shield boxes for PCGS slabs. Then I add a silica gel pack to keep the humidity down.

So far (several years) this seems to be working well.

Longacre

Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it.

NumisOxide

<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>


Brent Krueger

Deb048gold

I also use the Intercept Shield boxes for the PCGS Slabs in the Safety Deposit Box.
Your good to go!

ellewood

I've always purchased my Intercept Shield storage boxes (red, double row for certified coins) from Wayne Herndon

Best thing out there in my opinion. His prices are very reasonable and he ships SUPER FAST.

In fact, I just ordered two more for my collection earlier this a.m.

Good luck!

K6AZ

<< <i>

<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>


Brent Krueger >>



Don't waste your money. Go any pet store and buy the cat litter that is 100% crystal silica. Use coffee filters and rubber bands to make up your own packets.

TorinoCobra71

<< <i>I use the intercept shield boxes for PCGS slabs. Then I add a silica gel pack to keep the humidity down.

So far (several years) this seems to be working well. >>



The only way to go..............

TorinoCobra71

magikbilly

Be sure not to store any guns or paper items in your deposit box. An, watch out for the "better" boxes - those havhigher RH - good for paper terrible for coins.

Billy

dthigpen

Mine is just packed with intercept shield boxes.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>Use coffee filters and rubber bands >>

Rubber bands are a "NO-NO". They have a high sulfur content......

magikbilly

Everyone has seen a silver dollar with a rubber band mark bad stuff when it comes to silver, and worse as it ages and outgasses.


Billy

magikbilly

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Who sells that silica gel stuff? I live in a very humid environment (north east), and I guess I should be using it. >>


Brent Krueger >>



Don't waste your money. Go any pet store and buy the cat litter that is 100% crystal silica. Use coffee filters and rubber bands to make up your own packets. >>



I was just reading that all litters are not created equal - some "100%" litters may contain "low-grade silica". I imagine it is best to employ a product intended for this use, aspecially with valuables. MrSpud may know more about this.

Billy

K6AZ

Someone please explain to me how a coin in a slab is going to tone from a rubber band inches away. I've used this method for years in my boxes and none of the coins in slabs have rubber band marks.

magikbilly

<< <i>Someone please explain to me how a coin in a slab is going to tone from a rubber band inches away. I've used this method for years in my boxes and none of the coins in slabs have rubber band marks. >>



Why would they - you are describing the results of direct contact. It is outgassing that is being discussed here I think - something wood, paper and other materials do, especially as they age, that can be detrimental to a coin in a concentrated closed (possibly humid) enironment like a deposit box.

Billy

Coinhusker1

If you are talking PCGS slabs, do you cram as many as possbile in the box, or use the PCGS blue boxes and sacrifice some room for slabs? If you are talking lots of slabs, a few SDBs can get pricey!!

airplanenut

<< <i>Someone please explain to me how a coin in a slab is going to tone from a rubber band inches away. I've used this method for years in my boxes and none of the coins in slabs have rubber band marks. >>

But they're toned!

09sVDB

I use blue boxes and silica.

PerryHall

K6AZ---Rubber bands are high in sulpher and slabs are not airtight. In a confined space like a SDB I can imagine problems could occur.

topstuf

From the condition of some slabs I have gotten, I would have guessed they were kept with bottle openers and pocket knives in a bucket of sand.

or gravel

MrSpud

Ummm...regarding the rubber bands. Here is an excerpt from the Coin Preservation Handbook by Charles Frank (I have the book on loan from the ANA library ).

"Corrosive pressure sensitive adhesive tapes and rubber bands can affect brilliant coins even when separated from them by a plastic bag. Copper and silver alloy coins stored in sealed polyethylene film bags were contacted on their exterior sides with several different types of pressure sensitive tapes and rubber bands. For test comparison, similar coins were stored in polyethylene film bags without tapes or rubber bands in contact with their exterior sides. An examination of the coins three months later, revealed that the coins in the polyethylene film bags with tapes and rubber in contact with their exterior sides had been attacked far beyond their normal rates. This indicated that the corrosive gaseous vapors given off by the adhesives and rubber had permeated the plastic bags and attacked the surfaces of the coins within."

I personally have some slabs in intercept boxes inside a sealed freezer bag with silica gel dessicant in the bag in a bank safety deposit box. I used a handful of pharmaceutical grade silica packs (the little packets that they put into bottles of pharmaceutical tablets) because I just happened to have some handy. I am not familiar with Kitty litter silica gel, but I like the idea of using cheap silica. However, it may not be quite as absorptive if it already contains some moisture (I don't know if it does or doesn't). I suppose it could be baked to dry it thoroughly just like regular silica gel even if it already contains some moisture and it probably would be very good Link to drying instructions. Also, you can get humidity indicating cards pretty cheap if you want to be sure the silica is doing it's job. I imagine that unless you have a way of measuring how dry the enlosed area is that you are just guessing that you are controlling humidity because any silica can already contain moisture and then it can't absorb much more. Probably the cheap silica in an inert container with a humidity indicating card would be very good. I remember reading that under 40% RH is good but that under 30% is ideal. I just ordered some humidity indicating cards from IMPAK link . I also ordered some large foil ziplock bags foil ziplock bag from the same place that I am going to use to store some albums of brilliant coins in. The coins are either in Dansco albums with the corrosion resistant slipcases or in intercept albums. I'm going to put in the albums along with some dessicant and probably a humidity indicating card so that I can check the humidity level anytime I open the bag.

MrSpud

I wasn't really familiar with silica gel as cat litter, so I just looked it up. Some of them like Cat Litter Silica Gel are silica gel which should make a good dessicant unless it already has absorbed too much moisture but some others like Cat Litter Diatomaceous Silica are actually diatomaceous silica which wouldn't be a good dessicant.

magikbilly

<< <i>I wasn't really familiar with silica gel as cat litter, so I just looked it up. Some of them like Cat Litter Silica Gel are silica gel which should make a good dessicant unless it already has absorbed too much moisture but some others like Cat Litter Diatomaceous Silica are actually diatomaceous silica which wouldn't be a good dessicant. >>




Yeah, what Spud said


Billy

PS - in all seriousness, people would do well to learn about different types of materials normally considered safe - even acid free paper will become acidic in time. We talked about rubber bands, same thing only worse for some paints and varnishes etc. all sorts of materials can pose a problem used in the wrong way or for the wrong thing.

AlaBill

What on earth did coin collectors do 100 years ago?

There were no slabs, no safety deposit boxes, no humidiy control, etc.. Are we going to far in our efforts?

DNADave

Cross everything to ANACS holders and store them is standard cardboard boxes for 2x2's. They fit perfectly, laying flat 3 across the bottom and 5 or 6 deep per stack.

MrSpud

<< <i>What on earth did coin collectors do 100 years ago? >>



I remember reading in the book Coin Chemistry that some of the best preserved coins from those days were stored in metal tins.

Also, some climates are naturally lower in humidity than others. I imagine that someone out in Phoenix would never have any use for dessicants.

Also, corrosive atmospheric pollution is much more prevelant in many places today than 100 years ago.

I don't think it is going to far for brilliant white coins (if you want them to stay that way) or for valuable coins to protect them from pollution and humidity. However, it is also fun to see how some inexpensive ones tone using less protective storage techniques.

magikbilly

<< <i>

<< <i>What on earth did coin collectors do 100 years ago? >>



I remember reading in the book Coin Chemistry that some of the best preserved coins from those days were stored in metal tins. >>



For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper!


Billy

Cameonut

K6AZ
I learned a couple of years ago that rubber bands and proof silver coins do not mix. I mistakenly put a couple of raw proofs in Safe-flips and put a wide rubber band around them to keep them together. My plan was to submit them to PCGS in a month or so. Well, I got delayed and after about 90 days, the proofs showed a dark streak where the rubber band was in contact with the flips. I didn't believe it at first, but it was clearly the result of the sulfur in the bands. I no longer let rubber bands come close to any proofs.

Slabs may be a different matter, but why take the chance? My safery deposit boxes contain no rubber or other protential sources of sulfur.

Cameonut

magikbilly

A list should be compiled of materials/products to avoid - especially for the novice/newer collectors. Just a thought. I'll start with "staples":

1) Rubber Bands
2) Staples
3) ?


Billy

MrSpud

<< <i>For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper! >>



You think the copper is absorbing the corrosive agents leaving the paint better preserved? As a reminder, intercept shield works because it has copper particles imbedded into absorbant fibers.

Oh yeah, that reminds me that I should mention that the Coin Chemistry book recommended putting a few loose clean copper coins into any bag/container as sacrificial corrosion absorbers and as indicators that corrosive agents are present. So if you se that the copper coins are darkening you know that something is attacking the coins and can take preventative measures. The idea is that copper is more reactive than other metals and also because the copper is loose that other coins in holders will take longer to be exposed than the loose coins. I am currently using copper foil strips for this purpose in some of my containers that I am storing coins in. I like the foil better than coins because the coil can easily be sanded about once a year to keep its surface really reactive (and also because I don't want to sacrifice copper coins )

MrSpud

The book Coin Presernation by Charles Frank has whole chapters on what materials are safe and which are harmful. It was written in 1964 and they already knew PVC was bad.

magikbilly

<< <i>

<< <i>For similar reasons, the best preserved Dutch 17th Century easel paintings are on.....copper! >>



You think the copper is absorbing the corrosive agents leaving the paint better preserved? As a reminder, intercept shield works because it has copper particles imbedded into absorbant fibers.

Oh yeah, that reminds me that I should mention that the Coin Chemistry book recommended putting a few loose clean copper coins into any bag/container as sacrificial corrosion absorbers and as indicators that corrosive agents are present. So if you se that the copper coins are darkening you know that something is attacking the coins and can take preventative measures. The idea is that copper is more reactive than other metals and also because the copper is loose that other coins in holders will take longer to be exposed than the loose coins. I am currently using copper foil strips for this purpose in some of my containers that I am storing coins in. I like the foil better than coins because the coil can easily be sanded about once a year to keep its surface really reactive (and also because I don't want to sacrifice copper coins ) >>



No, I was speaking of the tin in that analogy actually. Copper panels react less to environment (in comparison to linen and wood) so paint films undergo less exspansion and contraction etc. - something like the tin container of the coin you mentioned - it "attracted" less trouble due to the innate nature of the material so the coin inside is in good shape - the copper panel attracts less water than linen (hygroscopicity) - leaving well preserved paint films.. Metals in the right circumstances, like beeswax, can be incredibly permanent.

Billy

MrSpud

Oh, I see

magikbilly

BTW, you are either giving me the cold shoulder, or your PM's are off


Billy

MacCrimmon

See the Trafalgar Medal in the link below. Also, pay attention to the third row of pics and the silver-lined brass fitted shells which these coins were stored in for 200+ years.

Consider England isn't exactly DRY!! AMAZING!!

Look what happens inside a metal container in 200 years - NOTHING!!

Also, Intercept makes a ziplock polybag too, in addition to the boxes, etc.

Didn't I read that Lakesamman used to wrap his IHC collection in a copper wire mesh?

MrSpud

The state of preservation of the coins in those brass shells is amazing

Oh, and here is a link to a place selling the intercept poly bags impregnated with copper Link . It is the only place I ever saw them for sale.

carl

I just use whatever brand is cheap for sealable freezer type plastic bags to store any coins, albums, slabs, etc. Just push out as much air as possible, fold over and put away. This may not work in the long run but has been great for over 50 years now. No tarnish, toning or anything on coins stored that way since back in the late 40's. I've got about 25 rolls of 1943 steel cents that way, as an example, and they look the way they did when I first put them away that way. This method may not be good for hundreds of years, but I'm not to worried about that.

mozin

This thread was asking about storing slabs in a safe deposit box. A lot of you folks are going way overboard with your storage. Just put the slabs into the plastic boxes the grading services provide and forget about them. What a bunch of whussies!

magikbilly

uh-huh.

MrSpud

I dunno. Probably putting a coin into a slab, then into a protective container then into an airtight container with dessicant is extreme. But it isn't really expensive to do so relative to the price, time and effort that some people take to pick out nice coins for their collection. I bet a lot of less knowledgeable people think it is very strange to never touch a coin with your fingers or to put coins into holders or slabs too. For me personally, I've seen corrosion occur on both my own coins and others. Of course I lived in Florida and in the Carolinas for the last decade and a half where the humidity is quite high in the spring and summer. I imagine that in many places in the country where it is less humid or where industrial pollution isn't a concern that you can pretty much just leave the coins unholdered out in a big pile and they won't noticably be affected.

For me, I would rather learn about the surface chemistry and preservation techniques of coins than I would about varieties or double dies or similar minutiae. I have trouble paying attention for more than a few minutes to things like minute differences in die pairings or minute differences that took place in the making of the dies in one part of the year. I still try to learn some of the varieties though, just because I know that they are more valuable. I just have trouble getting or staying excited by them. But I can read about surface preservation and corrosion or toning for extended periods without losing interest.

PerryHall

These extreme storage techniques are more for mint state and proof red copper and silver with have highly reactive surfaces. Circulated coins especially if they have a protective "crusty" surface probably don't need to have this extensive protection.

boyhowdy

Make sure you throw in some silica gel. A couple of my NGC slabbed Barber dimes turned from blast
white to gold. I think the gold toning was a result of wrapping the slabs in a canvas bank bag inside
my box.

Steve

magikbilly

<< <i>Make sure you throw in some silica gel. A couple of my NGC slabbed Barber dimes turned from blast
white to gold. I think the gold toning was a result of wrapping the slabs in a canvas bank bag inside
my box.

Steve >>



Hi Steve,
Silica gel will not help you much there. The canvas, cotton really, outgasses sulphur as it ages and degrades - this was what toned your coins, not moisture per se, although that helped for sure. Boxes can be bad, or good - partly depending what is in there with them. You showed, to an extreme, why one should nevcer have paper in a box - it will also outgass, as will a ton of other things. A lot of people don't believe any of this it seems. Oh well.

Billy

09sVDB

As most of my coins are PCGS, they are in PCGS boxes with silica and the NGC coins just sprinkled around.

MJPHELAN

Intercept shield slab boxes with silica gel. I bought a large box (that cover 35 cu ft) of silica gel from Amos. I thow it in the oven over 6 months or so to reactivate it.

450g silica cell from Amos

mcmxi

Has anyone tried using the vacume seal bags used in the kitchen?

mozin

I still think some people are going overboard with safe deposit box storage. I assume the bank is air conditioned so the humidity in the safe deposit box should not be very high anyway and that the temperature inside the box will not vary considerably.

After reading this informative thread I will do a few things with my safety deposit boxes:
1. Remove my plastic bags holding rubber bands and stickers.
2. Remove my paperwork.
3. Insert a large dessicant bag into each deposit box.

I didn't see anyone talking about ordinary cardboard mailing boxes or the 2X2 cardboard boxes. Anyone know if these boxes should not be inside the safety deposit boxes?

oreville

I have been successful in maintaining the absolute redness of my early lincoln cents from the 20's and 30's by keeping them in mineral oil. I change the mineral oil every other year. In those hard cased 2x2 holders.

I see no difference between the Intercept Shield and normal careful preservation as of yet.

topstuf

Resurrecting this old thread because I've got a couple of fireproof, waterproof, airtite boxes inside a HOME safe.
I've had one for years but got a duplicate off eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fire-Safe-Chest-Waterproof-Fireproof-Box-Security-Key-Lock-Home-Sentry-Portable-/152701975166?var=&hash=item238dbf3a7e:m:mYfIrzq0lAbKDuDMwTDjI-A

They hold 2 PCGS or NGC 20 boxes sitting sideways with no lids.

There's room for a small dessicant bag and I'm wondering if that is a good thing to use in a completely airtite environment.

The SDB is full of plastic boxes with gold bullion coins and no particular other care because I don't think about their toning or whatever.

What think?

BillJones

I guess my storage methods are on the primitive side. I store the best coins in NGC boxes without the lids. The lower priced pieces are protected with plastic sleeves to cut down on the scratches. I keep the rubber bands and other sulfur laden things out of the boxes.

I have not had any problems with toning from temperature changes for many years. Back in the 1970s I had my collection stored in a bank vault with the boxes backed by outside wall. It was in northern New Jersey and the temperatures went up and down like crazy in the bank vault. I did have some issues then.

Since then I have used larger banks with the vault in the center of the building. The temperatures are controlled, and I’ve had no problems.

BTW for whatever reason I’ve seen more rubber band burns on Bryan comparative silver dollars than any other pieces. And yes, those things are nasty. Only a hammer and a chisel will remove them; acid won’t cut it.

kaz

I couldn't change the silica desiccant container in my SDB often enough; the vault was just too humid. so now I put a bunch of slabs in a ziplock bag with the desiccant and that seems to do the job ok.