My First Raw Buy Off Of Ebay ... Help Me Grade It Please :-)

ChannelIslands · May 19, 2005 12:15PM

I know, I know ... don't buy raw coins off of Ebay. But I thought that I would give it a shot. What grade would you give this 1889 CC Morgan? BTW - I paid $1600 for it and have five days to send it back.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 12:19PM

I'm assuming the white balance is off but it looks like an AU 53 details and (harshly?) cleaned.

Vet · May 19, 2005 12:20PM

F15 maybe VF 20 the 9 looks a little odd. Is it that color?

ChannelIslands · May 19, 2005 12:26PM

Wow ... those are two very divergent opinions.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 12:31PM

Yep. But I stand by my AU details.

A VF looks very different. More like this

RAD · May 19, 2005 12:34PM

I would say EF+ details, but it looks like there are a lot of hairlines suggesting cleaning, and if that is the color, looks like someone tried to retone.......

Editted to add: Someone else I think once posted this site that is at least somewhat helpful....

http://home1.gte.net/res05izg/index.htm

K6AZ · May 19, 2005 12:37PM

XF details, scrubbed and whizzed. Channel Islands, coins such as the 89-CC are offered raw in places like eBay for a reason - because they would never sell sight seen. I certainly hope there is a return policy on this coin.

markglicker · May 19, 2005 12:37PM

I will go with 35-40, also harshly cleaned. Never wise to buy expensive raw coins, on Ebay (in my humble opinion). Send her back, and buy a nice slabbed VF coin, for the money.

mirabela · May 19, 2005 12:38PM

Tough to do much with any picture, especially that one since the color seems so wrong, but --

Strictly from the standpoint of wear, I'd call that coin maybe VF30. The surfaces don't look nice, almost definitely messed with in some way. It looks harshly cleaned, and scratched heavily in a few spots to boot. Some weird color in there too, as though it has clay stuck to it or something.

I don't know the diagnostics of a genuine 89-CC, but the '9' in the date looks funny to me too.

There's a reason this coin isn't in a slab, and probably more than one.

I doubt that in hand it is worth more than F15 money, and maybe far less; I think if you shop around for a certified 89-CC you can find a no-problem no-BS VF coin if that's what you want for $1,600 or less. Were I you, I'd take advantage of the return privilege. I don't think this one is a bargain at all.

I'd add a general observation about ebay -- unless you have knowledge few others there do, i.e. die varieties or a great eye for spotting cameos, etc., you have stand little chance of getting a 'good deal' there in the sense of paying less than something is worth. Balance this against the high odds of getting stuck with a problem coin or otherwise being the patsy for some very experienced, polished sellers of substandard goods who know just how to get more than it's worth from you. Forget looking for a bargain there. If you learn who the good sellers are, and especially if you stick with certified coins, you can buy some nice things at fair prices, but it isn't necessarily the best place to go for that either. There's a world beyond ebay where most of the good coins live.

RAD · May 19, 2005 12:40PM

P.S. Take advantage of that return policy and put your money into one you can see yourself, or stick with the TPG slabbed ones....even there, it's possible to make a mistake, but not as easy as on Ebay, IMO.

DUIGUY · May 19, 2005 12:41PM

VF35

K6AZ · May 19, 2005 12:42PM

Not to nitpick, but the eagle's right wing shows full feather definition. XF40 minimum as far as wear goes.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 12:43PM

CI, I hope we're not sounding like we're scolding you. Most of us have had these painful lessons ourselves and are trying to help you avoid the same mistakes we've made. It's an education process to be sure. One video you might find useful is the ANA Grading Video that the ANA sells. It's a good tool to use and a nice refresher sometimes. I think it's like $30.

RAD · May 19, 2005 12:44PM

<< Not to nitpick, but the eagle's right wing shows full feather definition. XF40 minimum as far as wear goes. >>

K6AZ · May 19, 2005 12:46PM

<< CI, I hope we're not sounding like we're scolding you. Most of us have had these painful lessons ourselves and are trying to help you avoid the same mistakes we've made. It's an education process to be sure. One video you might find useful is the ANA Grading Video that the ANA sells. It's a good tool to use and a nice refresher sometimes. I think it's like $30. >>

Neil, this may be a good time to invite him to join the ANA. I believe the grading video is still once of the choices you can select for free joining up.

Boom · May 19, 2005 12:46PM

Send it back! Package it and return ASAP.

I agree. Listen to these people. Oh and Bravo for having the smarts to come here to.. "show and...ask!"

ChannelIslands · May 19, 2005 12:47PM

I don't feel scolded, you guys are great ... da bomb even :-) I post for knowledge and experience and you guys always give it freely. Thanks!

K6AZ · May 19, 2005 12:50PM

CI, have you joined the ANA yet?

ChannelIslands · May 19, 2005 12:52PM

Not yet, but I am hoping to win the give away! I just love free stuff. If not, I will join anyway.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 12:53PM

CI, as Eric said the ANA can be good for you. It has been for many of us. One of the benefits, besides the videos, is the library. You can check out for the cost of postage many books and videos to study.

braddick · May 19, 2005 12:53PM

The last and only 1889 CC Morgan I ever bought, about ten years ago, turned out to be an "added mintmark".

That kind of turned by sour, for awhile, on raw key date Morgans.

Good luck with yours.

KurtHorn · May 19, 2005 12:54PM

<< Not to nitpick, but the eagle's right wing shows full feather definition. XF40 minimum as far as wear goes. >>

I agree, hard to tell the surfaces of this coin from the pic. After you get it, make sure someone who can spot cleaning take a look at it and decide about the originality or lack thereof of the surfaces. If it's not too bad, maybe ANACS would EF detail cleaned EF 40 net. That's the really optomistic view. It's more likely to be a net VF 25 or VF 30. Then, you've paid too much.

KurtHorn · May 19, 2005 12:56PM

<< Neil, this may be a good time to invite him to join the ANA. I believe the grading video is still once of the choices you can select for free joining up. >>

Or, he might have listed in my 500th post giveaway. We draw 3 free memberships on Saturday!

RAD · May 19, 2005 12:56PM

Channel......some folks even post a pic or a link of a coin they are contemplating....there is always the risk that someone here will also see it and bid against you, but most people are very honorable and give fair and unbiased advice....just a thought.

ChannelIslands · May 19, 2005 12:57PM

<< 
Or, he might have listed in my 500th post giveaway. We draw 3 free memberships on Saturday! >>

YES, I DID :-)

CoastGuard · May 19, 2005 1:22PM

I agree with K6AZ, it is XF but I can not make out any whizzing.

my3cents · May 19, 2005 1:41PM

white balance is off so the color is out of the question - AND it makes it difficult to see the normal signs. I can't SEE any evdence of cleaning or whizzing but because of the pic, it is hard to tell.

I'd give it an AU-50 based on what I can actually see. Then again, a good pic in the correct light would be worth a thousand words.

BigGreek · May 19, 2005 2:34PM

I'm assuming the color is way off. It may get bagged for
cleaning but I'm not 100% sure. Looks like EF40 if its not
harshly cleaned.

Hey, welcome to the forum!!!

jeffatbeach · May 19, 2005 3:16PM

It looks CLEANED to me, .... You may be able to get a :VG attributes grade ?? ....I would say it is worth 650.00 to 800.00 ? ....Send it in to be sure.......

MikeInFL · May 19, 2005 5:10PM

Don't let these guys get you down. If you don't like the coin return it. You were wise enough to make sure you have one, and wise enough to solicit the help of the kind folks here, so you're not all bad in my book.

Also, don't get descouraged. There are finds to be had on e-bay, but you have to be discerning. Buying slab coins takes a great deal of the downside risk out of e-bay and other auctions, but it also limits your upside, IMHO. There are bargins to be had, and I've found asking lots of questions of the seller and soliciting the opinion of those more knowledgeable than myself (like many of the nice folks on this forum) are the keys to success.

FWIW, I say the coin grade, provided it is not cleaned or otherwise messed with (things my noob eyes can't determine from a shot like this), is XF 35.

Take care...Mike

mnmcoin · May 19, 2005 5:42PM

VF 30/35 You need 100% hair detail on the obverse for an XF.

Coin has been cleaned and hopefully when you get it, the coin is not worse than the photos, if so you are probably okay at $1600.

morris <><

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 8:32PM

<< XF details, scrubbed and whizzed. Channel Islands, coins such as the 89-CC are offered raw in places like eBay for a reason - because they would never sell sight seen. I certainly hope there is a return policy on this coin. >>

BigD5 · May 19, 2005 9:05PM

Looks to have sharp xf details, but obviously cleaned. If it's real, you overpaid a bit, but I don't think as bad as some here feel. The coin bids in vf at $1200ish, $2500ish in xf.

If you ever sent that in and somehow snagged an au details grade..........even xf details, net xf (I get those with au, not as likely with xf though) you'd be ok. xf details, net vf, and you wouldn't have any upside, and that's the most likely grade for this coin, IF IT'S REAL.

mr1931S · May 19, 2005 11:30PM

The "9" looks funny like it's higher than the rest of the digits in the date...also, '9" appears to have odd shape...

If authentic, maybe an $800-$900 coin. Seems to have been cleaned or whizzed...

streeter · May 20, 2005 5:20AM

Channel Islands. I beg you, please do not buy a coin on ebay where the seller states that the coin is "lightly cleaned". 3972173462 This coin is going to cost you ...what?... $170...just to return? $170!!!! Holy cripes--just for the privledge to look at the coin. Save your money and find a mentor.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not report AFTER you buy ---inquire before you buy.

IMHO, you need to STOP buying coins off ebay for a while and start buying books.

Russ · May 20, 2005 5:27AM

Frankly, the scammers go to sleep at night praying for buyers like ChannelIslands to come along. Slow down, man!

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29 · May 20, 2005 5:35AM

XF-40 details and thoroughly ruined. Get your money back and stick to certified coins or, at the very least, make sure you ask for opinions of raw coins before bidding/buying.

vega1 · May 20, 2005 5:41AM

I agree with streeter. Buying a $1600 coin raw off of ebay is a huge gamble unless you really know what your doing (even then its a gamble). Until you find your comfort level stick to PCGS, NGC, and ANACS coins. My opinion only.

streeter · May 20, 2005 5:45AM

CI

There is an outside chance that you could catch up to Hall or Contursi...but not the way you are currently going about it.

Hang here for a month and get involved(this board survived me-it can survive you) and promise me you will NOT SPEND A PENNY ON EBAY FOR COINS.
You have to make the promise

TUMUSS · May 20, 2005 5:48AM

XF Details- VF Net

GoYankees · May 20, 2005 6:01AM

CI,

Not pile on, but that seller's feeback alone, is enough to scare me away. So much so that I added him to my "blocked" list. Based on that, and what others have said, you overpaid. I hope it's real.

You're not alone, my dad and I got burned with a '16-D Merc (added "D") back in the late 1980s.

K6AZ · May 20, 2005 6:15AM

I've been holding off on bringing this up, but seeing as how the OP has bid on several of their auctions, I think it's important.

This seller is affiliated with my friends in Florida, and used one of his shills to bomb my feedback. He is/was part of a very large shill ring that got away with ripping people off on eBay for several years. Check out this feedback of one of his shills:

coinbuyer88

GAT · May 20, 2005 6:32AM

Up to 2-3 years ago you could find bargains on eBay on a regular basis. Then through a combination of eBay rising fees. rising coin prices, eBay stated attracting more scammers. As a result a lot of good sellers disappeared. There was a thread yesterday about eBay covering $50 milliion in scam losses last year. There are limits to their coverage so I believe that $50 mil is only the tip of the iceberg. For myself, I seldom look at eBay these days. As to the 89-CC, listen to the advice others have given you here.

Edited to correct a typo.

mr1931S · May 20, 2005 6:45AM

CI, it is possible to buy nice raw coins on ebay. You should keep in mind that perhaps 90% of raw coins on ebay is junk or shlock...or not authentic...Much time can be consumed looking for a few good coins in the mountain of junk and shlock on ebay.

The '89 CC dollar you bought is either fake or it's shlock, in my opinion.

Find a few good sellers and stick with them. That's the key, no pun intended, to making good raw coin buys on ebay.

Coinhusker1 · May 20, 2005 6:51AM

<< CI,

Not pile on, but that seller's feeback alone, is enough to scare me away. So much so that I added him to my "blocked" list. Based on that, and what others have said, you overpaid. I hope it's real.

You're not alone, my dad and I got burned with a '16-D Merc (added "D") back in the late 1980s. >>

Is that the right seller? I do not see any sold 89-CCs in their completed listings.

GoYankees · May 20, 2005 10:36AM

<< 

<< CI,

Not pile on, but that seller's feeback alone, is enough to scare me away. So much so that I added him to my "blocked" list. Based on that, and what others have said, you overpaid. I hope it's real.

You're not alone, my dad and I got burned with a '16-D Merc (added "D") back in the late 1980s. >>

Is that the right seller? I do not see any sold 89-CCs in their completed listings. >>

CH1, I got the number from Streeter's post...

<< Channel Islands. I beg you, please do not buy a coin on ebay where the seller states that the coin is "lightly cleaned". 3972173462 This coin is going to cost you ...what?... $170...just to return? $170!!!! Holy cripes--just for the privledge to look at the coin. Save your money and find a mentor.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not report AFTER you buy ---inquire before you buy.

IMHO, you need to STOP buying coins off ebay for a while and start buying books. >>

billboat · May 20, 2005 11:41AM

At $1800 I'd take advantage of the return policy--put the money in the bank and wait for a better example--I don't care for this one.

Merch · May 23, 2005 7:30AM

I have bought some of my nicest coins raw on eBay. Just be careful. If you like the coin, keep it, if you dont, return it. Here are some coins I purchased raw on eBay, mostly in rolls though.

My First Raw Buy Off Of Ebay ... Help Me Grade It Please :-)

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