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What could PCGS do to improve its holders?

DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

For me, there would be two things:

1. Put the basic info (yr/mm, type, grade) on the top of the holder so I could view the contents of the box without pulling every coin.

2. Develope a special holder for coins with a design edge so you could view the edge of the coin. Not every coin would need to be in this type of holder, but it could be available for say $5 extra if a collector wanted it.

What do you think?
Doug
«1

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>1. Put the basic info (yr/mm, type, grade) on the top of the holder so I could view the contents of the box without pulling every coin. >>



    That's one of the things I like about the SEGS holders. I think it's a great idea.

    Russ, NCNE
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,807 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DMWJR---Great ideas. I'd also like them to reinforce the little tabs in the corners used for stacking. They break off too easily.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    I like your ideas, I would pay extra for those options. Keeping in mind that you couldnt feasibly do this by changing the dimensions of the holder.

    Also, PerryHall is right- those stacking tabs get damaged to easily.
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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    find a way to make the plastic even clearer and more scratch resistant
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think you would have to change the dementions of the holder. Just recess the front around the coin more, and make it completely flat on the back. I think the trouble would be that you couldn't use the insert they use to keep the coin secure. It would have to "rattle" most likely.
    Doug
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    One thing that some serious collectors might appreciate would be to include a very tiny packet of silica gel in the slab to remove and absorb any moisture that might be present.

    Thoughts???
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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    Silica gel wouldn't help. Once it gets saturated, it won't help any. and if you heat it up to recharge it then you'll be injecting the moisture directly within the slab.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,807 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>One thing that some serious collectors might appreciate would be to include a very tiny packet of silica gel in the slab to remove and absorb any moisture that might be present.

    Thoughts??? >>



    It might make more sense to use the Intercept Shield inserts that ICG uses to prevent corrosion. This would be an option at a small additional cost.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    The intercept stuff has a limited shelf life.
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    PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭
    I have quite a few scuffed-up, crappy PCGS holders. I wish they'd invent a better plastic that is a bit more resistant to being scratched and scuffed up. It's too darn expensive and impractical for me to send in all my coins to get reholdered. I realize reholdering in itself is inexpensive, but the two way registered fees will kill ya. I might as well just sent them all back in to be regraded.
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    I'd definitely want to see the top label implemented. I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them.
    Rob Joyce - Dollar Variety / VAM Collector
    http://www.vamworld.com
    and
    http://www.rjrc.com
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin world holders allow for an insert to be seen from the top.

    Even if PCGS would just make the top of the holder flat I could put a sticker on it. The way they are now, it doesn't work very well.
    Doug
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I like the NGC holders far better than the PGCS design. I think the NGC white surround shows off the coins much better. Stacking slabs leads to holder scratches so I don't stack, use the storage boxes instead. The stacking tabs on PCGS I find useless. The entire PCGS holder is not nice to the touch, sharp curved and crevassed holders.image

    All the grading services need to design a plastic that does not scratch so easily, AND does not have so many minor imperfections right from manufacture. I had about 150 coins from my collection reholdered PCGS/NGC this past year. The $5 reholder fee sounds great but the registered insured both ways really adds to the cost. With a maximum registered insured amount of only $25,000 it also means more packages to be wrapped.image

    SEGS top edge description label is a great idea.image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    solidsolid Posts: 2,975
    2. Develope a special holder for coins with a design edge so you could view the edge of the coin. Not every coin would need to be in this type of holder, but it could be available for say $5 extra if a collector wanted it.

    I don't think you would have to change the dementions of the holder. Just recess the front around the coin more, and make it completely flat on the back. I think the trouble would be that you couldn't use the insert they use to keep the coin secure. It would have to "rattle" most likely.

    The goal is a good one but, you're right, they wouldn't be able to use the pliable ring insert as they do now - a separate shell half would have to be developed for each denomination and the coins would, once again, rattle. I would think there is probably more chance of damaging a coin during the slabbing process with this method, compared to the current method.

    Ken
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    A truly air-tight seal at a minimum...and sealing the coins in an argon atmophere would be ideal and no particularly technically challenging. If this seems like overkill, perhaps it could be offered for expensive, high-grade coins as an extra fee service.
    I really like the idea of a top edge label, too.
    ------
    "It is possible to keep a mind so open that it is perpetually empty."
    --Peter Huber, "Galileo's Revenge"
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    partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    I'd definitely want to see the top label implemented. I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them.

    Text

    Then why not put the label on the bottom of the coin slab, who cares which way it goes in.
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll add to the "Make them like SEGS holders" choir. Patent and licensing issues aside, PCGS is due for a holder redesign. They'd make a killing on reholder fees if they did make them like SEGS holders. In addition to having the label on top, they're the toughest holders out there, which would probably be bad news for people who spend a lot of time cracking them open. Also, the stacking fittings don't break off, and the holders are more comfortable to hold.

    How long would it take PCGS to recover the cost of buying the patent from SEGS? They'd also be able to cast off the existing "PCGS BOUGHT THEY'RE TECHNOLLIGY FROM US" assertion.
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    messydesk, I like what you are doing with Vams in your link!! image
    Doug
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    CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I also like the labels on the SEGS holders. I would bet that they would license their patent to PCGS for a very nominal fee if PCGS were inclined to do so.

    But I also like the "feel" of the ICG slab - it fits the fingers nicely - better than the PCGS holder.

    And I also prefer the look of the NGC white plastic insert over the translucent PCGS insert. Would probably look funky in the current PCGS plastic, but if there was a total redesign, it could probably be accomodated.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,807 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

    image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    solidsolid Posts: 2,975
    Ok, let's get crazy now - how about a microchip embedded into the slab that allows you to
    plug the slab into your computer and have instant access to multiple angle photos, tied to
    a fully highlighted description showing just why the coin was given the assigned grade!

    All for $39.95 image
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    nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

    But some of the very large US and foreign issues won't fit in the ANACS slabs.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,807 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

    But some of the very large US and foreign issues won't fit in the ANACS slabs. >>



    All US issues fit into the ANACS holders with the exception of the Pan-Pac $50 gold slugs. Not a problem for most people.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    Make'em out of non-glare material so it's easier to take pics and a built in magnifier would be cool for us who are on our way to bifocals.
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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 7,078 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about makimg them cost less? image

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    keojkeoj Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd like to see a slightly-larger-than coin ROUND holder with the date/mm/grade micro printed on the edge. These are the benefits:

    1) I could then put my series collection into a single folder (like Dansco) but it would still be certified. I'd love a small but well presented folder
    2) Maybe people would look at the coin first (and the grade second)......what a concept!!!!
    3) Less space
    4) One could see the edge
    5) If someone was smart, they could still be stackable
    6) Maybe if someone was really smart, they could pick just three standard sizes......quarter size and below, dollar size and below (down to the next size) and Panpac and below (down to the next size)

    keoj
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    SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,683 ✭
    Get the ugly bar code off the front insert and put it back where it belongs - in the back !!!!

    Sunnywood
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    clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    PCGS could put something on the holders to keep them from scratching so easily.
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    Better Grading
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>messydesk, I like what you are doing with Vams in your link!! image >>



    Thanks!
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    gyocomgdgyocomgd Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭
    I would like to see, in extremely small (4 pt.) type and on the reverse, the date the coin was graded. For a coin graded tomorrow, a small "5/5" (indicating May 2005) would suffice. This would give the knowledgeable collector, who is aware of fluctuations in trends in grading, a deserved edge when "buying the holder."
    image
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I would like to see, in extremely small (4 pt.) type and on the reverse, the date the coin was graded. For a coin graded tomorrow, a small "5/5" (indicating May 2005) would suffice. This would give the knowledgeable collector, who is aware of fluctuations in trends in grading, a deserved edge when "buying the holder." >>

    Sounds reasonable.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    MrScienceMrScience Posts: 788 ✭✭✭
    Interesting topic and great suggestions by all. Here's one addition and an amplification:

    1. Add an anti-reflective treatment to the slab surface, in particular those parts of the slab above/below the coin.
    For example, Avery-Dennison (and possibly others) have developed methods to emboss a texture onto plastic surfaces
    that reduces the reflection from them (no, I don't have any financial interest in this company!). Perhaps the more widely
    used method, but probably the more expensive one, is to deposit thin films onto the surfaces to achieve a similar effect.
    An anti-reflective treatment would make photography and visual inspection of slabbed coins much easier!

    2. I agree that scratch-resistant slabs would also be great. Such coatings are applied all the time on eyeglass lenses
    and even on plastic exterior automotive lamps (so it can't be too expensive!). In fact, a scratch-resistant coating might
    also reduce unwanted reflections from the slab (#1 above)!

    Thanks!

    John
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    Top label is a must also the overall shape could be improved by either making the top 1/4" longer then the bottom, or just making middle of holder narrower,these changes in shape would make holder less likely to slip out of hands.I would love to able to see the edge of a Saint Gauden Double Eagle.They are expected to loosen up a bit on future grading, with everyone being concern that current grades are to low, this would all but garantee a huge upgrade cycle which offset any expence PCGS would incur redsigning the holder. Win, Win, PCGS stays on top with the most inovative holder plus rakes in the cash while all the collectors take the oppertuity upgrade their old holders with old tight grades, for new state of art holder and good shot moving up a grade with the brandnew loosened grading Coming to you at PCGS as of 5-17-05.
    GTS
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    Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536 ✭


    << <i>I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them. >>


    SEGS does NOT hold the patent for the top label unless they bought it from Compugrade. They pioneered the use of the top label seven years before SEGS started up. (There is probably even a fair chance that it is not even patented.)



    << <i>2. I agree that scratch-resistant slabs would also be great. Such coatings are applied all the time on eyeglass lenses >>


    NGC DID apply that scratch resistant coating to the first three varieties of their holder. Why they stopped doing so I do not know.
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    fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe PCGS should go back to the old green labels........No more OGH listings on ebay. That would mess with everyone's head.imageimage
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them. >>


    SEGS does NOT hold the patent for the top label unless they bought it from Compugrade. They pioneered the use of the top label seven years before SEGS started up. (There is probably even a fair chance that it is not even patented.) >>



    The patent Larry Briggs holds is a design patent for the holder itself (D423,757), not the "top label" concept. The only claim in the patent is for an "ornamental design for a coin case described as shown." Five different elevations of the holder are shown. The patent expires in 2012.
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    BigGreekBigGreek Posts: 1,090 ✭
    Figure out a way to get the coin lined up in the holder so it
    doesn't look rotated. And then figure out a way to keep it from
    rotating.

    I like the holder. The top label would be a good idea. Or at
    least make the top flat like someone suggested.
    image
    Please check out my eBay auctions!
    My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
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    DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Put my coins into them faster!
    When in doubt, don't.
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    radiomanradioman Posts: 770 ✭✭✭
    Put the coins correctly in the holders, I couldn't tell you how many coin that the have rotated in the holderimageimageimageimageimage
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    robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    How about if they add an anti-glare coating or layer in the slab to make photography easier? That's the absolute best improvement they can make to their slabs, IMHO. As a whole, it may also slightly nudge up the average resale value of their coins by generally improving the photography of those coins available online in PCGS slabs.
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>find a way to make the plastic even clearer and more scratch resistant >>



    If they did that, then they wouldn't make any money with their reholder service!

    C'mon, let's be reasonable! image

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭
    I think the holders need to be re-designed with the coin "window" recessed or protected like the insert. I don't think a "scratch protective coat" on anything is called for - it is just a poor design judging from the way they wear. I have seen MANY nicks, abrasions and scratches on these slabs like everone else - and usually on the best coin in the worst place. The coin window seems to be designed with contact in mind it is so vulnerable. I have RARELY seen any like damage in the area of the insert though - even on pretty bad slabs. But, as noted, this imrovement this would eat away at the plastic reholdering business.

    Billy
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    LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    They can simply give me mega high grades, that'll improve the holder!
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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    magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭


    << <i>They can simply give me mega high grades, that'll improve the holder! >>




    I just look at the coins image

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    michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    smaller and thinner like anx holders and crystal clear harder plastic also like anx

    maybe an acrylic inert kind? if some an animal exists
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    << <i>smaller and thinner like anx holders and crystal clear harder plastic also like anx

    maybe an acrylic inert kind? if some an animal exists >>



    If they do maybe they won't be as cheap and flimsy as the ones ANACS uses.I think the ANACS slab is the worst holder that any of the four major TPG's use.It is just so cheap it is laughable.Take a vice to one and you will know what I am talking about.
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    CoppernicusCoppernicus Posts: 1,764 ✭
    michael - by "ANX" do you mean "ANACS?" I tought so.

    The PCGS holders are fine....and the best of all of the TPG's.

    Mike
    Coppernicus

    Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
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    I think that they should design an adequate round coin holder. I think it would be more aesthetically pleasing, being the same shape as the coin, not so bulkey, and I personally think tha the slabs detract fromthe coins beauty.
    Peace,

    coinfool
    "You broke the bonds and you loosed the chains; carried the cross of my shame, of my shame--you know I believe it..."

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