What could PCGS do to improve its holders?

DMWJR · May 19, 2005 4:45AM

For me, there would be two things:

1. Put the basic info (yr/mm, type, grade) on the top of the holder so I could view the contents of the box without pulling every coin.

2. Develope a special holder for coins with a design edge so you could view the edge of the coin. Not every coin would need to be in this type of holder, but it could be available for say $5 extra if a collector wanted it.

What do you think?

Russ · May 19, 2005 4:47AM

<< 1. Put the basic info (yr/mm, type, grade) on the top of the holder so I could view the contents of the box without pulling every coin. >>

That's one of the things I like about the SEGS holders. I think it's a great idea.

Russ, NCNE

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 4:48AM

DMWJR---Great ideas. I'd also like them to reinforce the little tabs in the corners used for stacking. They break off too easily.

Scavenger · May 19, 2005 4:53AM

I like your ideas, I would pay extra for those options. Keeping in mind that you couldnt feasibly do this by changing the dimensions of the holder.

Also, PerryHall is right- those stacking tabs get damaged to easily.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 4:55AM

find a way to make the plastic even clearer and more scratch resistant

DMWJR · May 19, 2005 4:57AM

I don't think you would have to change the dementions of the holder. Just recess the front around the coin more, and make it completely flat on the back. I think the trouble would be that you couldn't use the insert they use to keep the coin secure. It would have to "rattle" most likely.

VAMs4U2BuyHere · May 19, 2005 4:57AM

One thing that some serious collectors might appreciate would be to include a very tiny packet of silica gel in the slab to remove and absorb any moisture that might be present.

Thoughts???

nwcs · May 19, 2005 4:58AM

Silica gel wouldn't help. Once it gets saturated, it won't help any. and if you heat it up to recharge it then you'll be injecting the moisture directly within the slab.

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 5:04AM

<< One thing that some serious collectors might appreciate would be to include a very tiny packet of silica gel in the slab to remove and absorb any moisture that might be present.

Thoughts??? >>

It might make more sense to use the Intercept Shield inserts that ICG uses to prevent corrosion. This would be an option at a small additional cost.

nwcs · May 19, 2005 5:07AM

The intercept stuff has a limited shelf life.

Prethen · May 19, 2005 5:08AM

I have quite a few scuffed-up, crappy PCGS holders. I wish they'd invent a better plastic that is a bit more resistant to being scratched and scuffed up. It's too darn expensive and impractical for me to send in all my coins to get reholdered. I realize reholdering in itself is inexpensive, but the two way registered fees will kill ya. I might as well just sent them all back in to be regraded.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · May 19, 2005 5:09AM

I'd definitely want to see the top label implemented. I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them.

DMWJR · May 19, 2005 5:13AM

The coin world holders allow for an insert to be seen from the top.

Even if PCGS would just make the top of the holder flat I could put a sticker on it. The way they are now, it doesn't work very well.

mozin · May 19, 2005 6:27AM

I like the NGC holders far better than the PGCS design. I think the NGC white surround shows off the coins much better. Stacking slabs leads to holder scratches so I don't stack, use the storage boxes instead. The stacking tabs on PCGS I find useless. The entire PCGS holder is not nice to the touch, sharp curved and crevassed holders.

All the grading services need to design a plastic that does not scratch so easily, AND does not have so many minor imperfections right from manufacture. I had about 150 coins from my collection reholdered PCGS/NGC this past year. The $5 reholder fee sounds great but the registered insured both ways really adds to the cost. With a maximum registered insured amount of only $25,000 it also means more packages to be wrapped.

SEGS top edge description label is a great idea.

solid · May 19, 2005 6:42AM

2. Develope a special holder for coins with a design edge so you could view the edge of the coin. Not every coin would need to be in this type of holder, but it could be available for say $5 extra if a collector wanted it.

I don't think you would have to change the dementions of the holder. Just recess the front around the coin more, and make it completely flat on the back. I think the trouble would be that you couldn't use the insert they use to keep the coin secure. It would have to "rattle" most likely.

The goal is a good one but, you're right, they wouldn't be able to use the pliable ring insert as they do now - a separate shell half would have to be developed for each denomination and the coins would, once again, rattle. I would think there is probably more chance of damaging a coin during the slabbing process with this method, compared to the current method.

Ken

Toren · May 19, 2005 6:56AM

A truly air-tight seal at a minimum...and sealing the coins in an argon atmophere would be ideal and no particularly technically challenging. If this seems like overkill, perhaps it could be offered for expensive, high-grade coins as an extra fee service.
I really like the idea of a top edge label, too.

partagas · May 19, 2005 7:05AM

I'd definitely want to see the top label implemented. I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them.

Text

Then why not put the label on the bottom of the coin slab, who cares which way it goes in.

messydesk · May 19, 2005 7:20AM

I'll add to the "Make them like SEGS holders" choir. Patent and licensing issues aside, PCGS is due for a holder redesign. They'd make a killing on reholder fees if they did make them like SEGS holders. In addition to having the label on top, they're the toughest holders out there, which would probably be bad news for people who spend a lot of time cracking them open. Also, the stacking fittings don't break off, and the holders are more comfortable to hold.

How long would it take PCGS to recover the cost of buying the patent from SEGS? They'd also be able to cast off the existing "PCGS BOUGHT THEY'RE TECHNOLLIGY FROM US" assertion.

DMWJR · May 19, 2005 7:22AM

messydesk, I like what you are doing with Vams in your link!!

Cameonut · May 19, 2005 7:25AM

I also like the labels on the SEGS holders. I would bet that they would license their patent to PCGS for a very nominal fee if PCGS were inclined to do so.

But I also like the "feel" of the ICG slab - it fits the fingers nicely - better than the PCGS holder.

And I also prefer the look of the NGC white plastic insert over the translucent PCGS insert. Would probably look funky in the current PCGS plastic, but if there was a total redesign, it could probably be accomodated.

291fifth · May 19, 2005 7:26AM

Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space.

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 7:47AM

<< Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

solid · May 19, 2005 7:59AM

Ok, let's get crazy now - how about a microchip embedded into the slab that allows you to
plug the slab into your computer and have instant access to multiple angle photos, tied to
a fully highlighted description showing just why the coin was given the assigned grade!

All for $39.95

nwcs · May 19, 2005 8:05AM

<< Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

But some of the very large US and foreign issues won't fit in the ANACS slabs.

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 8:14AM

<< 

<< Adopt the size now used by ANACS. The current holders take up too much space. >>

But some of the very large US and foreign issues won't fit in the ANACS slabs. >>

All US issues fit into the ANACS holders with the exception of the Pan-Pac $50 gold slugs. Not a problem for most people.

bgrice · May 19, 2005 9:24AM

Make'em out of non-glare material so it's easier to take pics and a built in magnifier would be cool for us who are on our way to bifocals.

WaterSport · May 19, 2005 9:36AM

How about makimg them cost less?

WS

keoj · May 19, 2005 10:47AM

I'd like to see a slightly-larger-than coin ROUND holder with the date/mm/grade micro printed on the edge. These are the benefits:

1) I could then put my series collection into a single folder (like Dansco) but it would still be certified. I'd love a small but well presented folder
2) Maybe people would look at the coin first (and the grade second)......what a concept!!!!
3) Less space
4) One could see the edge
5) If someone was smart, they could still be stackable
6) Maybe if someone was really smart, they could pick just three standard sizes......quarter size and below, dollar size and below (down to the next size) and Panpac and below (down to the next size)

keoj

Sunnywood · May 19, 2005 10:50AM

Get the ugly bar code off the front insert and put it back where it belongs - in the back !!!!

Sunnywood

clackamas · May 19, 2005 10:57AM

PCGS could put something on the holders to keep them from scratching so easily.

RayJay · May 19, 2005 11:25AM

Better Grading

messydesk · May 19, 2005 12:34PM

<< messydesk, I like what you are doing with Vams in your link!!

>>

Thanks!

gyocomgd · May 19, 2005 2:52PM

I would like to see, in extremely small (4 pt.) type and on the reverse, the date the coin was graded. For a coin graded tomorrow, a small "5/5" (indicating May 2005) would suffice. This would give the knowledgeable collector, who is aware of fluctuations in trends in grading, a deserved edge when "buying the holder."

mozin · May 19, 2005 2:57PM

<< I would like to see, in extremely small (4 pt.) type and on the reverse, the date the coin was graded. For a coin graded tomorrow, a small "5/5" (indicating May 2005) would suffice. This would give the knowledgeable collector, who is aware of fluctuations in trends in grading, a deserved edge when "buying the holder." >>

Sounds reasonable.

MrScience · May 19, 2005 5:58PM

Interesting topic and great suggestions by all. Here's one addition and an amplification:

1. Add an anti-reflective treatment to the slab surface, in particular those parts of the slab above/below the coin.
For example, Avery-Dennison (and possibly others) have developed methods to emboss a texture onto plastic surfaces
that reduces the reflection from them (no, I don't have any financial interest in this company!). Perhaps the more widely
used method, but probably the more expensive one, is to deposit thin films onto the surfaces to achieve a similar effect.
An anti-reflective treatment would make photography and visual inspection of slabbed coins much easier!

2. I agree that scratch-resistant slabs would also be great. Such coatings are applied all the time on eyeglass lenses
and even on plastic exterior automotive lamps (so it can't be too expensive!). In fact, a scratch-resistant coating might
also reduce unwanted reflections from the slab (#1 above)!

Thanks!

John

GTS · May 19, 2005 8:05PM

Top label is a must also the overall shape could be improved by either making the top 1/4" longer then the bottom, or just making middle of holder narrower,these changes in shape would make holder less likely to slip out of hands.I would love to able to see the edge of a Saint Gauden Double Eagle.They are expected to loosen up a bit on future grading, with everyone being concern that current grades are to low, this would all but garantee a huge upgrade cycle which offset any expence PCGS would incur redsigning the holder. Win, Win, PCGS stays on top with the most inovative holder plus rakes in the cash while all the collectors take the oppertuity upgrade their old holders with old tight grades, for new state of art holder and good shot moving up a grade with the brandnew loosened grading Coming to you at PCGS as of 5-17-05.
GTS

Conder101 · May 19, 2005 9:09PM

<< I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them. >>

SEGS does NOT hold the patent for the top label unless they bought it from Compugrade. They pioneered the use of the top label seven years before SEGS started up. (There is probably even a fair chance that it is not even patented.)

<< 2. I agree that scratch-resistant slabs would also be great. Such coatings are applied all the time on eyeglass lenses >>

NGC DID apply that scratch resistant coating to the first three varieties of their holder. Why they stopped doing so I do not know.

fivecents · May 19, 2005 9:54PM

Maybe PCGS should go back to the old green labels........No more OGH listings on ebay. That would mess with everyone's head.

messydesk · May 19, 2005 11:07PM

<< 

<< I belive SEGS patented that so they would probably have to license it from them. >>

SEGS does NOT hold the patent for the top label unless they bought it from Compugrade. They pioneered the use of the top label seven years before SEGS started up. (There is probably even a fair chance that it is not even patented.) >>

The patent Larry Briggs holds is a design patent for the holder itself (D423,757), not the "top label" concept. The only claim in the patent is for an "ornamental design for a coin case described as shown." Five different elevations of the holder are shown. The patent expires in 2012.

BigGreek · May 20, 2005 1:18AM

Figure out a way to get the coin lined up in the holder so it
doesn't look rotated. And then figure out a way to keep it from
rotating.

I like the holder. The top label would be a good idea. Or at
least make the top flat like someone suggested.

DennisH · May 20, 2005 5:18AM

Put my coins into them faster!

radioman · May 20, 2005 9:17AM

Put the coins correctly in the holders, I couldn't tell you how many coin that the have rotated in the holder

robertpr · May 20, 2005 9:27AM

How about if they add an anti-glare coating or layer in the slab to make photography easier? That's the absolute best improvement they can make to their slabs, IMHO. As a whole, it may also slightly nudge up the average resale value of their coins by generally improving the photography of those coins available online in PCGS slabs.

leothelyon · May 20, 2005 9:35AM

<< find a way to make the plastic even clearer and more scratch resistant >>

If they did that, then they wouldn't make any money with their reholder service!

C'mon, let's be reasonable!

Leo

magikbilly · May 31, 2005 1:01PM

I think the holders need to be re-designed with the coin "window" recessed or protected like the insert. I don't think a "scratch protective coat" on anything is called for - it is just a poor design judging from the way they wear. I have seen MANY nicks, abrasions and scratches on these slabs like everone else - and usually on the best coin in the worst place. The coin window seems to be designed with contact in mind it is so vulnerable. I have RARELY seen any like damage in the area of the insert though - even on pretty bad slabs. But, as noted, this imrovement this would eat away at the plastic reholdering business.

Billy

LucyBop · May 31, 2005 1:16PM

They can simply give me mega high grades, that'll improve the holder!

magikbilly · May 31, 2005 1:37PM

<< They can simply give me mega high grades, that'll improve the holder! >>

I just look at the coins

michael · May 31, 2005 5:37PM

smaller and thinner like anx holders and crystal clear harder plastic also like anx

maybe an acrylic inert kind? if some an animal exists

coldcicle · May 31, 2005 5:52PM

<< smaller and thinner like anx holders and crystal clear harder plastic also like anx

maybe an acrylic inert kind? if some an animal exists >>

If they do maybe they won't be as cheap and flimsy as the ones ANACS uses.I think the ANACS slab is the worst holder that any of the four major TPG's use.It is just so cheap it is laughable.Take a vice to one and you will know what I am talking about.

Coppernicus · May 31, 2005 5:54PM

michael - by "ANX" do you mean "ANACS?" I tought so.

The PCGS holders are fine....and the best of all of the TPG's.

Mike

coinfool · May 31, 2005 5:58PM

I think that they should design an adequate round coin holder. I think it would be more aesthetically pleasing, being the same shape as the coin, not so bulkey, and I personally think tha the slabs detract fromthe coins beauty.

What could PCGS do to improve its holders?

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