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Can cleaned coins be uncleaned?
carl
Posts: 2,054 ✭
The attached photos are of coins recently purchased for astonishing low prices due to being cleaned. Why people do this is beyond me but I guess it's an attempt to raise the value and instead it distroys the value. So here is my question: anyone know of a way to subdue the cleaned look? Return even a slight look of a normal coin? These are in fairly decent condition so it may be worth any try. Any good or even bad suggestions???????? The coins are 09S, 18D and 21S.
Carl
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<< <i>Why people do this is beyond me but I guess it's an attempt to raise the value and instead it distroys the value >>
Many people clean coins, not in attempts to make them more valuable, but to make them look better (remove "tarnish" etc.), not realizing that they are hurting the value.
<< <i>Outhaul, you're BAAAAAAAAAAAD!!
And served.
Available at some coin shops.
K S
<< <i>And served >>
Well, as they say, you can't squeeze blood from a rock!
Cheers,
Bob
As to putting them in a paper bag on the window for a long time, just about how long not that I'm in a hurry.
The main thing is I want to put them in the Lincoln cent because they are in pretty good condition but they look goofy there because of the condition of the rest of that set. Most of the set is at least AU50 but these would stand out like a lighthouse beacon.
Like I said I'll try anything.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The '18-D would take a lot longer so carrying in your pocket a while would work faster.
The '21-S is a mess. It looks whizzed as well as cleaned so will take a lot of wear to be normal again.
it works. i've seen heavily cleaned bust dollars that were tumbled come out looking almost perfectly original. the risk is that you can easily lose a full grade of detail.
K S
I've heard this from a couple of sources and always wondered about it. I have never done it personally, although I did carry around a harshly cleaned 1934-D VAM-4 Peace Dollar in my pocket change for over a year and it did eventually look much better, to the point that it did get slabbed. I don't know how much detail I lost in the process. Should have done B4 and after pictures, but I was just curious and screwing around to see what would happen.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
In no other walk of life is there as much subterfuge and devil-take-the-hindmost disingeunousness as coin collecting. The only rule seems to be "education"--learn how the system works, how the game is played and how to otherwise exploit every facet from buyers to sellers to the coins themselves, and the best man wins. Amazing how a dark undeberbelly not only exists, but is the prevailing force.
Artificially tone coins...unclean cleaned coins...what a shameless mess.
A spot of ativan, a rest from from my Richard Petty Driving Experience over the weekend, recovery from a gorgeous coin that just came back "cleaned" from NGC (a second had PVC damage), and I'll be back at it. Jesus!
<< <i>Lots of great, sneaky tips on this thread...my compliments. Should be reworded to say, "The coin I have has been rendered practically worthless. Is there a way to doctor/disguise the coin so I can sell it without informing the buyer of its true history?"
In no other walk of life is there as much subterfuge and devil-take-the-hindmost disingeunousness as coin collecting. The only rule seems to be "education"--learn how the system works, how the game is played and how to otherwise exploit every facet from buyers to sellers to the coins themselves, and the best man wins. Amazing how a dark undeberbelly not only exists, but is the prevailing force.
Artificially tone coins...unclean cleaned coins...what a shameless mess.
A spot of ativan, a rest from from my Richard Petty Driving Experience over the weekend, recovery from a gorgeous coin that just came back "cleaned" from NGC (a second had PVC damage), and I'll be back at it. Jesus! >>
I see this from an entirely different perspective. It seems more that collectors are overly concerned
with things they can't see or that can't matter. Certainly a plugged hole in a coin matters because
it may someday show no matter how well it's done. The same is true for anything which adds or sub-
tract elemental metal or moves it into a new position. It's also true for procedures which mask or re-
moves defects.
But cleaning is the problem, not the "recirculation" of the coin. Such polishing and recirculating occurs
naturally in circulation quite frequently. Many insults happen to coins and are hidden and long forgot-
ten just because the coins wears down below the damage. There is nothing in the least dishonest a-
bout this. Indeed one is taking a coin which might have been cleaned to decieve a newbie and restor-
ing it to a collectible condition. This new condition might be a lower grade than when it was cleaned
but so long as the coin has good honest wear than how can it matter how that wear occured? How can
it ever even be detected since coins wear like this in circulation?
Should collectors not collect circulated coins at all because it may or may not have been intentionally
cleaned and then intentionally or unintentionally restored to an "original" condition?
<< <i>
<< <i>
Should collectors not collect circulated coins at all because it may or may not have been intentionally
cleaned and then intentionally or unintentionally restored to an "original" condition? >>
Anyone can collect any coin they want for any reason. But altering the condition of a coin in any way, or marketing a coin that has been cleaned without full disclosure, is tantamount to fraud in my opionion. In my opinion, most cleaned coins change hands with knowledge by the owner. I admire those who announce a cleaned coin as such, but I've never heard (and never will) see a listing anywhere that says, "This coin was cleaned but I uncleaned it by leaving it on my windowsill and have restored it to its original condition." That would be a kiss of death, and if every knowledgeable dealer/collector abided by a rule of strict honesty, most commerce would cease. It's a joke. The only outright objections to cleaning I see is from a purist standpoint, rather than a wholesale acknowledgement that it's behind the single biggest losses and gains in everyday coin commerce. Someone buys a gorgeous coin for X amount, sends it to a TPG, and if it comes back cleaned, good-night Irene. It's awful. One might just as well ask, "What can I do to make this counterfeit coin appear more convincing?" In the lion's share of cases, one party knew the coin had been cleaned.
Let it be known, cleaning does not happen "naturally." I'm much more forgiving about PVC damage, which does occur naturally in that it is always unintentional. Someone physically tampered with the coin even if it happened six decades ago, and did so to make it more valuable for sale or trade. The effect of that sin ripples forward and continues today, and chances are, that cleaned coin will shatter somebody's heart 50 years in the future.
I appreciate your perspective, but am having difficulty adopting the throw-up-your-hands approach. I think cleaning is an insidious problem and a pervasive one, because to survive in the hobby, people are forced to warp/mitigate some very basic truths and continually stretch the bounds of their conscience--if they bought a coin that turned out to be cleaned, it is human nature to refuse to lose money in this fashion, and to level the playing field they will attempt to recoup it a way that involves some chicanery. It's a devil's game, love of coins vs. Jiminy Cricket sitting on their shoulder. This hobby will present a crisis of conscience faster and more often than any trade I've ever seen. The really weird thing is that nobody acknowledges it outright. I'm surprised there haven't been more philosophical threads on this topic. There is a constant soul searching and seeking of what is an acceptable code of ethics--there are posts every day about the way ebay sellers present their wares, whether individuals are right in presenting a coin in a certain way, etc. etc. It just blows me away that advice on how to fix a cleaned coin would be shared so openly and with tacit approval, by the most serious and devout lovers of the hobby--the people on this board.
I'm glad this message is buried, because it isn't very articulate. But I sure wanted to rant, because I am way hacked off about my recent purchase (From a dealer at coin show no less!) coming back cleaned, and am torn between throwing the effing thing in the ocean, going through the misery of hunting the fellow down and confronting him about it without having a receipt (and two months after the fact) or selling it to someone else the way it was sold to me. What a nightmare.
<< <i>
Anyone can collect any coin they want for any reason. But altering the condition of a coin in any way, or marketing a coin that has been cleaned without full disclosure, is tantamount to fraud in my opionion. In my opinion, most cleaned coins change hands with knowledge by the owner. I admire those who announce a cleaned coin as such, but I've never heard (and never will) see a listing anywhere that says, "This coin was cleaned but I uncleaned it by leaving it on my windowsill and have restored it to its original condition." That would be a kiss of death, and if every knowledgeable dealer/collector abided by a rule of strict honesty, most commerce would cease. It's a joke. The only outright objections to cleaning I see is from a purist standpoint, rather than a wholesale acknowledgement that it's behind the single biggest losses and gains in everyday coin commerce. Someone buys a gorgeous coin for X amount, sends it to a TPG, and if it comes back cleaned, good-night Irene. It's awful. One might just as well ask, "What can I do to make this counterfeit coin appear more convincing?" In the lion's share of cases, one party knew the coin had been cleaned.
Let it be known, cleaning does not happen "naturally." I'm much more forgiving about PVC damage, which does occur naturally in that it is always unintentional. Someone physically tampered with the coin even if it happened six decades ago, and did so to make it more valuable for sale or trade. The effect of that sin ripples forward and continues today, and chances are, that cleaned coin will shatter somebody's heart 50 years in the future.
I appreciate your perspective, but am having difficulty adopting the throw-up-your-hands approach. I think cleaning is an insidious problem and a pervasive one, because to survive in the hobby, people are forced to warp/mitigate some very basic truths and continually stretch the bounds of their conscience--if they bought a coin that turned out to be cleaned, it is human nature to refuse to lose money in this fashion, and to level the playing field they will attempt to recoup it a way that involves some chicanery. It's a devil's game, love of coins vs. Jiminy Cricket sitting on their shoulder. This hobby will present a crisis of conscience faster and more often than any trade I've ever seen. The really weird thing is that nobody acknowledges it outright. I'm surprised there haven't been more philosophical threads on this topic. There is a constant soul searching and seeking of what is an acceptable code of ethics--there are posts every day about the way ebay sellers present their wares, whether individuals are right in presenting a coin in a certain way, etc. etc. It just blows me away that advice on how to fix a cleaned coin would be shared so openly and with tacit approval, by the most serious and devout lovers of the hobby--the people on this board.
I'm glad this message is buried, because it isn't very articulate. But I sure wanted to rant, because I am way hacked off about my recent purchase (From a dealer at coin show no less!) coming back cleaned, and am torn between throwing the effing thing in the ocean, going through the misery of hunting the fellow down and confronting him about it without having a receipt (and two months after the fact) or selling it to someone else the way it was sold to me. What a nightmare. >>
I'm not a fan of either cleaning or doctoring. All we're saying in this thread is that a
cleaned coin can be uncleaned. I'm sorry to hear of your loss on a cleaned coin but
keep in mind that this coin simply wasn't "uncleaned".
Coins do get polished in circulation by various methods and do get cleaned by acids,
body sweats, being left in pants in the washing machine and myriad other chemicals
and processes to which circulating coins are exposed.
.
What was the point of bringing this back from 2005???
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
One of your cats? I know that Ricko’s dog has the skills.
Only in your pocket over a long period of time.
Exactly how patient are you?
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
I actually tried that once with a Barber quarter in a manila envelope and after 6-8 months it didn't look too bad. Was wondering the impact of doing the same but on the ledge under the back window inside my car during the summer months and hotter temperatures.
Pocket Change Inspector