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looking for advice when purchasing liberty $5 half eagles

Hi all,

I am still young, so one day I hope to complete a set of:
Liberty Head $5 Gold Basic Set
Circulation Strikes (1839-1908)

I think it was my interest in history that drew me to coin collecting in the last month.
I have always enjoyed reading about the gold rush in CA and AL. The discovery of gold
in the southern states as well as silver in the west.

As you would probably guess, I started looking at them on Ebay.
Recently it when from looking to purchasing. I want to show the four
coins I have bought so far, hoping to get some feedback/criticism.

Now, not owning a single coin in the series yet, beggars cannot be choosers.
I simply started by picking ones I liked and took it from there.
It also did not help to find out coins have gone up in value in the last years :-(

Here are the four:

one
two
three
four

I stopped here in my purchasing. I want to examine these four to get a better grip on the series.
examine the strike, luster, etc...

So here I sit, waiting a few more days, feedback is welcome on how much i spent.

And so you do not think I did very little research, here are some basic stats on these four.

1903-S MS60 Mintage: 1,855,000
1907-P AU58 Mintage: 626,000
1882-P AU55 Mintage: 2,514,520
1896-S AU50 Mintage: 155,400

I paid, 250, 185, 185, 310 in that order.

All in PCGS holders.

my registerd set

Big thanks to PCGS for all the nice tools. The coin guide was awesome. The price guide useful. The registry setup is fun.

Comments

  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Nice looking coins! That's quite a goal to collect a complete set of $5 libs! I have a registry set over at NGC for $5 coins dated 1900-1908- maybe doing this short set could be a short term goal? mike image
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭✭
    That is a big chuck of change to spend on something just to learn.....

    I think you need to go to a few shows and look at some in person and pick and choose.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like you are first doing your homework which is always a good thing. I would rather see a full set in AU 58 holders than those with a few MS60's (unless the 60's a really super sliders). One thing I would like to add personally besides good luck, one of the auctions you won only showed a pic of the obverse of the coin-no reverse pic was even shown (unless I missed something). I would NEVER bid on a coin (unless it was a $20 crapshoot) without seeing the ENTIRE coin. Plastic means nothing-its the coin you are buying and you should see 100% not 50% of what you are buying. Welcome to these boards.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • hi
    i like one, two and four
    don't care for #3.
    stay with the pcgs graded coins. there the best.
    littlejohn
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An interesting set but likely one that won't pay much of a return until far down the road....if at all. It took decades for better date circ seated and circ Barbers to start to take hold. I think $5 Lib golds is a long way off. The length of the set is very challenging in itself. I would suggest a shorter set and different grades if a fair rate of return is in your mind. But $5 gold pieces will maintain their value, though not as much as $20 saints for example. Why not the $20 Libs where you can buy them at < 2X intrinsic value? Gold type sets have always been extremely popular too. Bit if a return is of no concern then a $5 gold Lib date set is a very nice set indeed.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • That's quite a goal to collect a complete set of $5 libs! I have a registry set over at NGC for $5 coins dated 1900-1908- maybe doing this short set could be a short term goal?

    I thought it was quite bold a choice also. But what other series offers you coins
    from so many dates and mints! So many time periods this series has seen.

    My short term goal is to get some coins to examine.
    Then one from each mint. Try to get all the coins in a single year, etc..
    I imagine, I will look for good buys early, to fill out the set.

    That is a big chuck of change to spend on something just to learn.....

    Gold is never cheap, but I did not let that scare me away. Also, as I earn more
    money, I fiure it like this. 4 $5 coins back in the day might have been a month's
    wages. I got it for 7 days work ;-)

    I think you need to go to a few shows and look at some in person and pick and choose.....

    I could do it that way I suppose. I really have no excuse for not wandering to Nashua, NH
    to that coin store i heard about. I just have my doubts about the coins I bought going
    for the equivalent price at a store. He is charging for his expertise, presentation, expenses...

    I would rather see a full set in AU 58 holders than those with a few MS60's

    You read my mind. I want to collect a series of coins. Not try to out do someone with a budget
    I cannot even begin to comprehend.

    I would NEVER bid on a coin (unless it was a $20 crapshoot) without seeing the ENTIRE coin.

    Calculated risk to save money. I am trusting PCGS not to screw me. That coin to me, since it is gold,
    is a 110 (melt) + 20 = 130 crapshot with more added on. Somehow, things are different with gold to me.

    You are right though. I will remember this advice.

    i like one, two and four

    Four is my favorite, but that is due to a low mintage.
    It will be fun to have 4 coins to compare though.
  • An interesting set but likely one that won't pay much of a return until far down the road....if at all. It took decades for better date circ seated and circ Barbers to start to take hold. I think $5 Lib golds is a long way off. The length of the set is very challenging in itself. I would suggest a shorter set and different grades if a fair rate of return is in your mind. But $5 gold pieces will maintain their value, though not as much as $20 saints for example. Why not the $20 Libs where you can buy them at < 2X intrinsic value? Gold type sets have always been extremely popular too. Bit if a return is of no concern then a $5 gold Lib date set is a very nice set indeed.

    I think it is a very interesting set compared to the boring Saint Gaudens $20.
    It seems that series has been studied and blabbed about constantly everytime
    coins go up in price. Well, from an amateur perspective who always listened
    closely to pitches for gold/gold coins.

    There is no investment side to this. I already did the math, and you are correct.
    Buying 20 dollar gold pieces, you get more gold for your money.
    Next comes 10. then the 5. I wonder how the gold dollar collectors stay sane
    when they do the math when it comes to how much gold you get per dollar.

    I am not foolish enough to think I can make this set appear in 1-10 years.
    I simply do not have the money. And well, to be frank, the chase is the most fun.
    If, the set was ever completed, it would be quite anti-climatic.

    The romance is in the struggle.

    I agree with your last sentence.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking for criticism from a wise man, not praise from a fool.

    Okay, here's your criticism: it is unrealistic, unless you are extremely patient and fairly wealthy, to collect a complete set of Liberty $5's.

    Here are some suggestions that are more realistic, in roughly increasingly level of difficulty:

    1. No Motto/With Motto Type set (2 coins)
    2. 7 coin branch mint and Philly mint set: one coin from each of the mints: P, O, C, D (Dahlonega), S, CC, D (Denver)
    3. 1900-1908 20th century short set
    4. Branch mint run of $5's (CC $5's or New Orleans $5's, etc.)

    Back to criticism:

    I am not especially fond of your handle. Terrorism, IMO, is not something for one to joke about or have fun with. I considered not responding to the thread because of it. Please consider starting a new id and returning with your enthusiasm for Liberty $5's. There are some great and historic coins in the series.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had the same choice in front of me back in 1975 or so. I wanted badly to put together a choice VF-AU set of seated quarters from
    1838-1891. This is the most challenging of the seated sets. Some major rarities to boot....as do the $5 gold pieces. What stopped me was that 2/3 of the pieces were nothing special....and several were going to be impossible...the set was really not completeable. If had decided to do a set it would have been fractional sets such as all the New Orleans quarters or San Fransisco, or all the tough P mints. But I too had limited funds, was in my mid 20's, and just didn't want to tie up a ton of money in so so dates just to say I had them. From that point on I only went after tough dates in circ condition.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold

  • feeling a bit nervous in our post 9/11 environment ryk?
    What else do you want others to do, so you can sleep at night?
    Why should I change a nickname I have used for years? post 9/11.
    And where did you learn to read l33tsp34k? :-)
    You are better off ignoring me. Thanks for the response though.
    Sorry about offending you.

    I had the same choice in front of me back in 1975 or so. I wanted badly to put together a choice VF-AU set of seated quarters from
    1838-1891. This is the most challenging of the seated sets. Some major rarities to boot....as do the $5 gold pieces. What stopped me was that 2/3 of the pieces were nothing special....and several were going to be impossible...the set was really not completeable. If had decided to do a set it would have been fractional sets such as all the New Orleans quarters or San Fransisco, or all the tough P mints. But I too had limited funds, was in my mid 20's, and just didn't want to tie up a ton of money in so so dates just to say I had them. From that point on I only went after tough dates in circ condition.


    interesting. the difference in our thinking, is the sets we are talking about is just that: a young man's set.
    Sure, I will probably never own the major rarities. But if we are just talking about 5-10 coins of the series,
    I can live with that. Not everyone can own a truly rare coin by definition. I am sure the owner of one of those rarities
    would show me one day.

    One has to wonder, if you kept at the set you dreamed about in your 20-30s, where would you be on it
    in your 40s? Would you have 90% of the series? Quite an accomplishment.

    i need to think on this.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    feeling a bit nervous in our post 9/11 environment ryk?

    Pre 9/11, post 9/11, no matter.
    It's creepy.

    Good luck!
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    I long for the days when English was written as English, not a strange combination of upper and lower case letters interspersed with numbers.

    NoW thAt that'S oUt of the wAy, a compl3te sEt of hAlf eagl3s inclUd3s four, five, aNd six figUre coins. G00d lUck.
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have to agree with the counsel against trying the whole flippin' set. Why? Because any way you slice it, you get a bunch of "who cares" coins in there. Assuming you don't have unlimited funds for good looking mint state coins, you wind up with common date AU58 after common date AU58, when the alternatives to 20 common AU58's include things like one outstanding zonker common date MS65.

    Maybe think about a CC set. That's 19 pieces, not even the "easy" ones of which are truly easy. A few of them are quite expensive and probably a b*tch to find too, but that would be part of doing the whole set anyway. But the biggest perk to this subset, from my perspective, is that not one piece of it is a waste of time, <shrug> "big deal" coin. It's still something like a minimum $20,000 set in today's dollars, but that would assume you could even *find* these coins in VF, which in a lot of cases is likely to be extremely hard to do. And anyway, VF gold is pretty ugly most of the time. Assuming you want better grade than that, at least in all attainable cases, it will cost as much as a small house in many parts of the country. But, like you say, you've got time -- and it would be a cool project.

    There are all kinds of other subsets you could do, that's just an idea. But I think the whole set is unwieldy, not to mention wicked boring. Whatever you decide, good luck --

    MD
    mirabela
  • I Wish you good luck with your set although it might be a tad unrealistic. I'm with you on the idea of AU58's are the most for the money, although I'm a fan of rare mint 5's in vf and xf.
    image
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wish I had done my seated quarter set because I could have gotten all the coins by 1986 while still quite affordable. The keys would have more than made up for dozens of semi-common and common dates. Only 1842 sd and the 1873-cc NA might have eluded me. Very few people were doing that set in the '75-'85 era.
    Other Jim O'Donnell, Brian Greer, and Larry Briggs, not too many people were gung-ho on these. I remember Andy Lustig in 1988 stuffing some 1847-0 quarters in XF/AU (today AU's) for $185 each.
    Today those are probably 4X that price. But I still would have had dozens of pieces that even today would generate no interest and would probably have been losers after keeping them for 20 years. The keys are where it was at the past 10 years. But I saw very little appreciation in this set from 1975-1995. The real push came in the last 10 years. I didn't have the foresight at age 22 to see this coming....and having to wait 30 years. Guess I'm not that patient. I like my sets to be done in 2-5 years. Don't have the patience for 10-20 years.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • After thinking it over, I am sticking with this set.

    I never thought it would garner such criticism. And the more it gets the more
    I know it was a good choice.

    What fun is collecting when you know you can accomplish the darn goal so easily?
    What is the fascination with coins in better shape then the uber rich have?

    I imagine, once you collect and study coins for so many years, one becomes jaded
    towards more common coins.

    Who are the people on this forum whose goals include these bigger sets full
    of boring common dates? What drives them?

    I will of course take the advice of others, and go for sub-sets at first. That makes
    good sense. I just will not worry when I go outside that subset to pick up a coin
    in the series as a whole.

    I really think, in my lifetime, our fiat dollar will become quite unstable. Maybe those
    common gold fives, will come in handy then.

    Americans have no respect for gold anymore. Our country is made up of sheep who
    follow our govt's mandates into hell. As for me, I will be glad I have those common fives
    when something causes our economy to collapse.

    I am rambling. not quite awake. time to make some coffee.

    thanks for posting.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have fun! Please give a shout when you get the 54-S, 75, and 64-S $5's.

    (Frankly, the presence of "stoppers" should not deter you. If you completed the rest and omitted the 54-S, your set would still be complete, IMO.)
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice coins, albeit the '96-S looks closer to an XF-45 than a AU-50. When looking at $5s or any other denomination, remember to buy the coin, not the holder. Even PCGS will slab a dog, just as well as NGC and the other TPG Services. PCGS and NGC just tend to do it less frequently than the others IMO... If you want to pursue the entire $5 Lib series, I say GO FOR IT! It'll take time... it's taken me over 15 years just to complete the entire set of Charlotte $5s... not that it couldn't have been done in 5 years or so, but because it can take a loooong time before a suitable, properly graded (whether in PCGS or NGC or even raw) AND priced example comes available. So, enjoy the hunt... it can be frustrating at times (more than others), especially when you start looking for the rare ones. Good Luck!
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    t3rr0r1sm---

    This wasn't so much criticism but constructive advice and some smarts from some pretty bight people.

    Welcome to PCGS board, you probably notice that the thoughts rendered by board members are a little sharper than that other board where you posted. I'm glad you read my email.image
    Have a nice day
  • Nice coins, albeit the '96-S looks closer to an XF-45 than a AU-50.

    That is exactly the things I hope I learn when I get a hold of these coins.
    Grading from a picture is quite a challenge when you never examined
    one of the darn coins in person.

    streeter: yup, thanks for the advice. so much to read here. new content daily for free.

    as for the criticism from others, i have very thick skin online. as well as off.
    if people say something border edge rude/crude/nasty, i do not mind. Sometimes
    those comments are the ones that cause critical thinking in a post.

    others are just to troll for fun.
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    i really like all four coins

    they all have great eye appeal

    if you really like the 5 dollar set i would keep working on it as a work inprogress and after some years or whenever your goaqls might or might not change

    then you can deside from there

    but you are off to a good start

    michael
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    I think it's a very nice set, but very long and hard. There are some expensive coins in it ($100,000+ in nice condition).....

    I would first try to do the subsets RYK mentioned. Those are hard in their own way, and will require some searching, money and offcourse you must take the time for it.

    Here are some examples of "stoppers" in this set:

    1875 NGC AU-53 sold for $25,300 almost 4 years ago

    1870-CC PCGS AU-58 sold for $43,700 in 2003

    1864-S $5 --Damaged, Cleaned--ANACS. AU Details, Net XF 40 sold $4,600 4 years ago

    I couldn't even find the 1854-S, and I excluded the Charlotte and Dahlonega mint coins. I suggest that you pick up the books by Doug winter about the Charlotte, Dahlonega and Carson City mints, a lot of information in there. Also try to pic up as much as auction catalogs with liberty half eagles in there, and carefully study them. That will give you the knowledge needed to at least begin the set carefully.

    Good Luck!!!

    Dennisimage
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I couldn't even find the 1854-S...

    Most people cannot. There are three known, the most recent coin sold being the Eliasberg example 20+ years ago.

  • I second the advice about attending a show. Shops are fun too, but don't have as much selection as a large show would. They are good learning experiences because you can view many coins without buying them. Not all coins of the same grade look the same!

    I like gold coins and also tough challenges. It sounds like you do to. Happy hunting!
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    A friend of a friend of mine is also working on this set. He views it as a very long-term project.

    I presume you have the Red Book or a similar book to guide you. You may also want to get some more advanced reading, such as Doug Winter's books on Charlotte, Dahlonega, New Orleans and Carson City gold coins (you should certainly read his articles, available on the Pinnacle website); you may also want to get David Akers' book on half eagles or Breen's Encyclopedia for more advanced information.

    You may also want to set a target grade for the post-1879 coins, most of which are easily obtainable. I would recommend AU-58 - just as a cost consideration.

    One good think about going to a show is to see a lot of coins (for free!) and to establish the look and grade you prefer.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What you are getting ready to do is a HUGE task. There are many rare coins in the $5 gold series from 1839 to 1907. Collecting them all is a matter of constant observance of what is available for sale, considerable knowledge about the market for the coins, large amounts of money and yes, a bit of luck – being in the right place at the right time.

    About 30 years ago I set out to collect the early half dimes by Red Book variety. Overall there are 15 coins listed. I knew from the get-go that I could never afford the 1802. It was just beyond my means. I also set a goal up front that my collection would not contain any really awful coins. If I could not afford anything that was decent, I’d leave a hole.

    About four years ago I kind hit the wall. I have 13 of the 15 listed and 11 are in conditions that totally please me. The two missing pieces are the 1796 “LIKERTY” which is only a die state of the “normal” 1796 and the 1802. Offsetting that is the fact that I was able to buy a 1792 half disme, which was not originally on my list. My two big disappointments are my 1796 pieces. The plain one has VF sharpness, but it’s got teeth marks. The overdate is only a VG.

    Collectors get lucky with some coins and not others. I got lucky with the 1794, 1801, 1803 large date and 1805 half dimes. Lady luck did not smile on me with the 1796s. I purchased the wrong coins just at the time that the right coins came along and did not have the funds to buy the right coins. So it goes.

    Good luck with what you are proposing to do. It’s a lot harder to complete than my half dime collection, but maybe you will have the resources and even more important the tenacity to do it.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • (you should certainly read his articles, available on the Pinnacle website)

    thank you for the tip. i am finding many articles on his site that make for fine reading.
    excellent.

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