What do you think about these messed up grade results?

Crazy4Coins · March 23, 2005 5:28AM

All previously graded coins were cracked out before being sent in. I think the Morgans are what upsets me the most.Maybe the Lincoln experts can see something from the photos.

21916536 1857-S $5 USA XF45 ( Was PCI EF40 )
21916537 1854 $5 USA AU50 (Raw looked Cleaned)
21916538 1879-S S$1 USA Cleaning ( Raw looked MS65PL)
21916539 1880-O S$1 USA Cleaning (Was PCGS MS62)
21916540 1902-S S$1 USA Altered Surfaces (Was NGC MS63)
21916541 1921 S$1 Peace, High Relief USA MS64 (Was NGCMS63)
21916549 1932-S 25C USA MS62 ( Raw )
21916550 1934-D 25C Heavy Motto USA MS62 (Was PCI MS65)
21916552 1943/2-P 5C USA MS64FS ( Was SEGS MS65)
21916553 1837 1C Medium Letters USA MS64BN (Raw)
21916554 1909-S VDB 1C USA Not Genuine (Raw - Pic below)
21916555 1914-D 1C USA Enviromental Damage (Raw - Pic below)

Prethen · March 23, 2005 5:30AM

Could you provide close-ups of the year/mintmark and the "V.D.B." for the 09S and a close-up of the obverse of the 14-D?

kieferscoins · March 23, 2005 5:33AM

The 14-D doesn't need a close up. The yellow streaks across the obverse are not natural and the coin would get bagged.

Cameron Kiefer

Prethen · March 23, 2005 5:38AM

I agree, Cameron, that the coin doesn't need a close-up to see that something is wrong, I'm just curious as to what the damage looks like a bit closer. Maybe there's nothing else to see...just curious...all a part of the learning experience.

Russ · March 23, 2005 5:42AM

<< 21916540 1902-S S$1 USA Altered Surfaces (Was NGC MS63) >>

I once tried an NGC 1869 Two Cent piece cross. DNC. Cracked it out and resubmitted. Altered surfaces. Resubmitted again. MS65BN pop 1/0!

Russ, NCNE

Prethen · March 23, 2005 5:46AM

Russ, wasn't that coin about 100 years too old for you to deal with?

<< I once tried an NGC 1869 Two Cent piece cross. DNC. Cracked it out and resubmitted. Altered surfaces. Resubmitted again. MS65BN pop 1/0!
Russ, NCNE >>

wam98 · March 23, 2005 5:48AM

Do you have photos of the Morgans ?

Steve27 · March 23, 2005 5:53AM

A close-up of the VDB will show if it's actually a 1909 VDB with an added mint-mark (actually it's the spacing of the dots).

mercurydimeguy · March 23, 2005 6:25AM

I feel bad on your grading results but to be honest I've seen the same thing from PCGS the last 3 months myself. They've been inconsistent, as of late, which disturbs me because although one might/might not agree with their grading, from my vantage point (at least) they used to grade somewhat consistently. Very biased here, but to me (personally) this is why I buy PCGS coins at a premium.

I do mainly Mercs and have been getting the same results. I have coins in PCGS holders that are identical yet are, in some instance, have been graded 3 grades apart! Especially on key dates!!! Even when sent in for regrading together they come back the same. It's as if they're not even looking at them, charging me the $$ and just putting in the same grade holder. And because of their recent inconsistency, I'm afraid to crack because the coins might come back BB'd, or something -- for who knows what reason and I'll have to spend even more $$ to grade again.

I just sent in two orders to David Hall for Presidential Review. I'm curious to see how he'll handle the orders. A blind man can tell on these two -- identical coins 2 grades apart on the first, and the second a noticeably/much worst coin got in to a holder 1 grade higher than a noticeably much better coin. He'll either have to make the grading correction(s) or the whole "key date" coin grading thing is rigged in favor of a select few or is market timed

EDITED: Maybe they are starting to think that all nice raw coins are crackouts and thus hammering them?

Crazy4Coins · March 23, 2005 6:36AM

Cameron: Here is what the forum thought about the 14-D last time I posted a pic.Most said the streaking was common. Previous 14-D post

Crazy4Coins · March 23, 2005 11:40AM

ttt for the night crowd

kieferscoins · March 23, 2005 11:48AM

<< Cameron: Here is what the forum thought about the 14-D last time I posted a pic.Most said the streaking was common. Previous 14-D post >>

Yes but just compare the pics Mr. Eureka posted, His blends in with the metal in the streaky part and yours looks like it is on the surface.

I know pics are bad to judge by but based on the picture it looks different than a streaky improper mixture to me.

Cameron Kkiefer

ziggy29 · March 23, 2005 11:53AM

<< Cameron: Here is what the forum thought about the 14-D last time I posted a pic.Most said the streaking was common.... >>

It can be common but this doesn't totally look like it's in the alloy throughout the planchet.

Where this is VERY common is in early S-mint cents. A huge number of S-mint Indians and early Lincolns have these planchet striations, often giving a woodgrain type of appearance.

BigGreek · March 23, 2005 12:44PM

21916541 1921 S$1 Peace, High Relief USA MS64 (Was NGCMS63)

21916549 1932-S 25C USA MS62 ( Raw )

I personally am 1 for 5 on my Lincolns. I'm building a nice collection of
BB'ed Lincoln cents in my Dansco.

centmaster · March 23, 2005 12:54PM

The S looks as if it was added to the VDB cent. The relief doesn't match LIBERTY and the legend.

GAT · March 23, 2005 1:07PM

That 1902-S altered surfaces has to hurt. It's something the rest of us have encountered for a long time submitting PL and DMPLs.

bgrice · March 23, 2005 1:10PM

<< Maybe they are starting to think that all nice raw coins are crackouts and thus hammering them? >>

That's an interesting comment. TNFC just put up a series of 1940's MS62-MS64 walkers on eBay that are pretty much worthless to their pocketbooks, so maybe those who are toying with the off-brand tpg's are getting hammered too. I figure they have to be their submissions as the number series is in a row with only a few missing in between. Maybe I should reconsider cracking my Indians and send them in as x-overs.

Coinhusker1 · March 23, 2005 1:19PM

<< I personally am 1 for 5 on my Lincolns. I'm building a nice collection of
BB'ed Lincoln cents in my Dansco. >>

I like your dry sense of humor here

mozin · March 23, 2005 3:56PM

Sorry you feel you got hosed.

This case only makes me feel I made the right decision by never buying raw coins.

unspendable · March 23, 2005 4:07PM

makes me wonder about my raw coins

Coppernicus · March 23, 2005 4:38PM

Given that it's always hard to tell from the pics, I think the 09-S-VDB is an 09-VDB with an added mintmark. The 14-D is damaged and the streaking is not from the planchet.

PCGS will detect fake 09-S-VDBs everytime. If I had this one in-hand, I could detect it too.

I don't know enough about the other coins to give any qualified input.

Hope you didn't pay too much for the raw Lincs.

Mike

unspendable · March 23, 2005 4:47PM

umm, I got a nice 09 S indian I paid a lot for, guess I better send it in somewhere..

kramer · March 23, 2005 4:50PM

Send them to ANACS where they barely use bodybags.

ksteelheader · March 23, 2005 7:06PM

<< The 14-D doesn't need a close up. The yellow streaks across the obverse are not natural and the coin would get bagged.

Cameron Kiefer >>

Maybe you could get ICG to send you for a metallurgy course. Then, when you study how the planchlet material was made back then, you would change your tune!

darktone · March 23, 2005 8:32PM

Can't really blame PCGS for bagging a fake S-VDB. As for the raw coins only having a 50% slab rate- you might want to think about getting opinions from a dealer or collector with more experience and probably the same with slabbed coins as well. Lots of low MS coins are boarderline whether they will slab or not and that's why they are graded low MS in many instantaces. You did well on a few so it's not a total loss. mike

jdimmick · March 23, 2005 9:49PM

I agree with the streaking on the 14-d, And the 09-s vdb is clearly a fake(added s) As soon as the photo loaded it was quite easily detectable IMO.

jim

merz2 · March 23, 2005 10:22PM

IMHO,the "S" has been added.It is straight up and down.The genuine would be on a slight slant to the right.Without a closer pic of the mint mark it would be difficult to be sure.The "Mint Marks were added by hand,so there is some latitude on this regard.I hope this helps. The 14D is a judgement call.As I have said on other posts,the mix of metals to make the planchets back then wasn't that great.That discolorization might be caused by the planchet.I'd have to see it in hand.Cameron jumps to conclusions.

What do you think about these messed up grade results?

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