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POP reports...the trend is perplexing??
saintguru
Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭
Looks like the mint has been pumping out quite a few 1922 Saints in the last year. And some rarities in MS63/64 are being minted again.
Or maybe someone is not returning labels after playing the crack-out game?? Nah..........
Who knows...in 10 years there could be twice as many Saints as there are today...and every other scarce series for that matter...disturbing or OK???
I say DISTURBING.
Or maybe someone is not returning labels after playing the crack-out game?? Nah..........
Who knows...in 10 years there could be twice as many Saints as there are today...and every other scarce series for that matter...disturbing or OK???
I say DISTURBING.
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It's an erroneous tracking system.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>I think I'll just wait until "EDUCATED" people start posting.
You're in the wrong place, buddy.
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i have an opinion and it might not be one you'll like........................but i'll give it anyway.
while Modern coinage and Bullion coins are slandered and oft maligned as being graded in droves with the resultant slow-down at PCGS, $20 Saints and Morgans aren't given their just desserts. if i'm not mistaken, those two coins account for more holdered PCGS coins than the Bullion silver/gold/Modern commems. it's highly likely that what you're seeing is submitters hoping to take advantage of the burgeoning demand for the coins, though there are no doubt some crackouts in the mix. not knowing the series i can't comment on the scarcity of the 1922, but i assume it's common in the series. Breen notes that a hoard of 150 Unc's came to light in 1983 and i hear regular mention of $20 gold being held in overseas banks----Breen notes 7,000 1922-S surfacing in 1983 from Central America, 1924-S from France in 1953-56 and various others, most centered around the early 80's.
taken with the Morgan hoards of recent years such as the Binion's and then last years by Ron Gillio out in Vegas, i'd consider the odds of a large Saint hoard as probable.
al h.
What scares me about Saints is the possibilty of hoards in Europe slowly leaking once rare dates into the US market. Then again, I am also afraid of black helicopters, the boogeyman, and trial lawyers.
<< <i>What scares me about Saints is the possibilty of hoards in Europe slowly leaking once rare dates into the US market. Then again, I am also afraid of black helicopters, the boogeyman, and trial lawyers. >>
You aren't afraid of the wife finding out about the coins you just bought?
Cameron Kiefer
you're a wise man.
al h.
Keep in mind, there are still more gold coins than you might even imagine in Europe and various US dealers have connections with banks and make trips over there, bringing back huge quantities from time to time.
They do it with diamonds, and I think the benefits would outweigh the negatives.
This would fix the pops for good, as well as play an important role in tracking
provenance, stolen coins, grading history, etc.
Ken
Nah...once I get them into the house undiscovered, I am home free.
Nah...once I get them into the house undiscovered, I am home free.
Mrs. RYK: Robert, what's this?? (she's holding a nice 1857-D $5 up in air)
RYK: That, oh that's nothing. (staring blankly at the TV)
Mrs. RYK: Well it sure looks like something to me. And what about this bill I found in the garbage?? Have you been talking to Gold Rush??
RYK: Bill, what bill??
Remember what FDR did to American citizens and their private property? Most of those coins left the country at about the same time and for the same reason. Why would anybody be surprised at this?
I have a feeling there are still lots more of them out there.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
1. The include only the coins that have been submitted to a given grading service. There can be MANY more coins out there than what is showing on their reords. The fact that people have to pay to get the coin on the list, hurts its credibility from the get-go.
2. They coins that have craked out and submitted more than one time. This can make some very rare or scarce coins look more common than they are.
3. Grades are only as good as the accuracy of the graders. The grading for C and D mintmarked gold coins has been inconsistent for a long time. The grading for colonial coins was really bad (almost always overgraded) when PCGS first started doing it. Ditto for many 19th century coins when NGC was just past its start-up phase. They slabbed a lot of AT material before they mended their ways.
4. The records do not include "no grade" or body bagged coins. Some great rarities are ungradable, but they still count.
I'll take the condition census and other information that numismatic writers have compiled over the years over the pop reports any day. To me the pop reports are a misleading waste of money and time.
While I generally agree with this, I think grading No Motto southern gold is inherently difficult and has improved a great deal in accuracy and consistency. One of the big problems is that these coins were struck under more primitive conditions (with often poorly-trained personal) compared to the similar era Philly coins. At first, the grading services did not take into consideration the strike qualities of the individual issues. Now, they have seen so many of these coins (many over and over again
The pop reports are way, way off on most southern gold issues.
Of course, my favorite pop report gaff is the 1884 Trade dollar. Last time I checked, there were ten coins monted and the combined PCGS/NGC population was 12 or 13.
<< <i>I'm for micro-laser-engraving a serial #, perhaps on the rim of coins at 12 o'clock. >>
Perhaps PCGS could provide the service for an extra fee (and then return the coin BB'd with altered surfaces
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<< <i>The grading for C and D mintmarked gold coins has been inconsistent for a long time.
While I generally agree with this, I think grading No Motto southern gold is inherently difficult and has improved a great deal in accuracy and consistency. One of the big problems is that these coins were struck under more primitive conditions (with often poorly-trained personal) compared to the similar era Philly coins. At first, the grading services did not take into consideration the strike qualities of the individual issues. Now, they have seen so many of these coins (many over and over again
The pop reports are way, way off on most southern gold issues.
Of course, my favorite pop report gaff is the 1884 Trade dollar. Last time I checked, there were ten coins monted and the combined PCGS/NGC population was 12 or 13. >>
I can grade Southern gold better than the people who are doing it at PCGS and NGC. Yes the problems, which had mostly to do with the dies (The Philadelphia mint often sent its worst dies south and the southern mints sometimes used dies beyond their useful lives) did cause striking problems. BUT people who are expert graders can grade by surfaces.
Yes grading by surfaces IS more difficult, and the experts can differ, but from I've seen the overgrading of Southern gold is intentional. Ditto for the grading a Classic head $2.50 and $5.00 coins as well as some early liberty type pieces. The services don't do their job well at all in these areas, and there is more involved with it than differences of opinion.
Better government through better crooks.
(If my info is incorrect, please advise......thought I read it in Coin World years ago.)
Back when gold coins circulated, their value was determined by their metal content. The denominations to placed on the pieces more as a convenience. If the coin was underweight, it was not accepted at face value by the banks, domestic and foreign. This was the reason why the early U.S. gold coins and many foreign pieces did not have a denomination marked on them.
There is a big difference between putting a coin a scale and weighing it for metallic value and examining a coin for its state of preservation. A damaged gold coin could still have its legal weight, but from a numismatic point of view it might be worth no more than its melt value.