sequitor: I would like to see your actual facts that allow you to say that everyone in that business is a fraud and a crook...
I don't where you're getting this "everyone" standard from. Let me repeat it, for a third time now: the boss is responsible for the conduct of his employees. The organization is responsible and liable for the conduct of its employees. So it matters not if a receptionist didn't know about this illegal shilling -- the organization is still responsible. End of story.
please, I want to see some hard evidence... something you could actually take into a court and prove, not just circumstantial evidence...
You already have "hard" evidence -- examine the auctions themselves, with the same coins being won by the same bidders time and again. That's a prima facie case -- certainly enough to warrant a criminal referral to the authorities, and perhaps even prepare a criminal information (i.e. indictment). That's not a decision I get to make. But comment on? Absolutely I -- or anyone else -- can draw inferences and resonable presumptions, which is exactly what has been done.
And your demand for something more than "circumstantial" evidence is similarly misinformed. Perhaps you've heard of Scott Peterson -- you know, the guy who may receive the death penalty based on an entirely circumstantial evidence case? (It's a pop culture reference, but given the discussion thus far, it's one I thought you'd grasp.)
but I think it is irresponsible to call someone a crook in a public forum with only circumstantial evidence and "logic."
This is a misrepresentation of not only the state of affairs but also what has been said.
<< <i>It occurred on his watch, and I don't care if he actually did it, directed someone else to do it, or passively watched as it occurred -- the entire organization is corrupt. Fish rot from the head. >>
<< <i>With a feedback rating that is incredible and a five star customer service, we guaranty your satisfaction.
I don't know about this. Let's get confirmation. Braddick, are you satisfied with getting screwed? >>
I was the underbidder the second time around at $66. or so. I was actually a bit grateful I was outbid as I did place a high proxy bid thinking I'd win it for less than that I was taken back to see it four days later offered again is all.
It occurred on his watch, and I don't care if he actually did it, directed someone else to do it, or passively watched as it occurred -- the entire organization is corrupt. Fish rot from the head.
Noting that you've failed to respond to anything that I've said, thank you for my quote, as it confirms precisely what I said -- whether the head actually did it, or just sat by as the fraud occurred, it's a failure that starts at the top. Notably, you've failed to respond to my pointing out your original flaw about "assumption." The issue here is "presumption," not "assumption." If you think it's error to presume the head of a small coin operation has at least some idea of what in the h3ll is going on at his operation, we've nothing further to discuss. Here's the preview: I know I'm right.
And as I said, this is a fraud that is readily discernable. Seriously, this one's so freaking easy, it shows frightening stupidity by the malfeasors. And let me repeat it: frightening stupidity. Far from having to know about "every little detail," as you incorrectly stated, all the boss had to do was take a glance -- just a glance -- at his online operation, and WHAM -- the fraud hits you across the head like a two-by-four. And I posit such a glance either was, or should have been, taken over the course of the last months.
Gman, this one isn't even close. Not even. But I know you'll disagree; I am ass, right?
While I'm not sure shilling is against the law since I see Police department property lien division, banks, and even States do it: that looks like bait and switch which is against many state laws.
So did the "staff" member buy a "upgraded" coin from him like he said? I am confused. This is the dude that spams all the categories with "pcgs boxes for sale"
I can understand mistakenly relisting the same coin once, but 3 times! NO WAY. Now we have his answer: It did, the customer upgraded his order and we sold him a higher grade and we kept this one...
"ontime" bought the coin TWICE, did he upgrade both times? We know that's a lie. Now the facts show he's also doing it with other coins. These are HARD facts, very easy to see and comprehend. Now that this has been brought to his attention I hope "fairtraderz" does something about this soon.
I was out of the office all day and just caught up on this thread. tlhoy - I didn't post the 2003-S auctions because if you look the coins in the pictures are different. The other three examples you posted recapped nicely the one post I made at the beginning of this thread.
I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Also, the person that sent that question about the previous auction didn't really confront the issue. It did give 'fairtraders' some additional rope with which to hang himself, but didn't address the fundamental issue here. It would be nice if someone would call the number posted here several times, but it won't be me as I don't have a financial stake in the outcome here, nor do I have the stomach for conflict right now. Maybe my nerve will return after Christmas.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i> So has anyone that has reached a conclusion about what is going on here called 1-800-804-9896, or otherwise contacted the seller >>
I have emailed them twice. Got a response one of the questions. I posted it in a previous reply:
<< <i>Dear fairtraderz,
Hi, ... Didn't this same coin just sell a few days ago on auction 3945925492 ? >>
Their reply:
<< <i>It did, the customer upgraded his order and we sold him a higher grade and we kept this one... >>
>>
At least you got the courtesy of a reply. The three times I stopped by their table at a show, no one working there acknowledged my presence. Once I asked to look at an early commemorative I wanted. I knew that I could not afford it in MS-66 and asked if they had one in 64 (for which I had cash in my pocket). They blew me off and told me to look on eBay instead for a $250 coin which they implied wasn't worth their while to take to a show.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
And you can tell him about what NY's AG is doing ---
New York Attorney-General Goes After eBay Shill Bidders By Ina Steiner AuctionBytes.com November 09, 2004 Three eBay sellers pleaded guilty to criminal charges stemming from actions they took to inflate the prices of artwork and other merchandise that was sold in eBay auctions, according to New York's State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. The defendants were known by various eBay User IDs including "sambuca914," "gutek914," "zugnicht," and "fourlizards." In two other cases, defendants entered into civil settlements with the Attorney General's office for illegally bidding up sports memorabilia and automobiles sold in online auctions.
According to the criminal charges, three eBay sellers cast bids in over 1,100 of each others' eBay auctions for the sole purpose of driving up the price of the merchandise that they offered for sale over a five-year period. The practice is known by eBayers as shill bidding, which is against eBay's policy.
The Attorney General's office reported that Jerrold Schuster, former owner of the New Windsor Auction Gallery, pleaded guilty to Combination in Restraint of Trade, a violation of the New York antitrust law, a felony punishable by a maximum of four years in prison, and that Schuster's former employees pleaded guilty to Attempted Combination in Restraint of Trade, a misdemeanor antitrust violation, punishable by up to one year in prison.
In one auction, according to the AG, Schuster's New Windsor Gallery "shilled up" by more than $7,300 an oil painting attributed to Hudson River School artist Ralph Blakelock (1847-1919). As part of the disposition, the office said Schuster is expected to pay $50,000 in restitution and fines.
In a separate civil case, Robert Baranovich and his son, Steven Baranovich, of West Babylon, agreed to pay $10,000 in penalties and restitution to consumers harmed by their shill bidding. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order settling the case, the Attorney General alleged that the Baranoviches placed 170 phony bids in 165 of their own eBay auctions of sports memorabilia.
In another civil case, Richard Eggleston, Darryl Lien, and David Printy, together with a related corporation, Daryl Lien, Inc., agreed to pay more than $28,000 in penalties and restitution for their shill bidding practices. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order, the Attorney General alleged that they placed 610 bids in 106 of their own auto auctions under the user ID "Mother's Custom Automotive NY Dealer."
The Attorney General's office has identified more than 120 consumers who paid more for items as a result of shill bidding activities in the three cases.
Earlier this year, three eBay sellers pled guilty to shill bidding in an infamous case of art fraud that included an item that was made to look like a painting by famed artist Richard Diebenkorn. Kenneth Fetterman was one of three men who allegedly spearheaded a fraudulent bidding scheme on eBay for nearly two years. He was sentenced May 25 to 46 months in prison and ordered to pay $94,000 in restitution by the Eastern District Court of California.
Family, kids, coins, sports (playing not watching), jet skiing, wakeboarding, Big Air....no one ever got hurt in the air....its the sudden stop that hurts. I hate Hurricane Sandy. I hate FEMA and i hate the blasted insurance companies.
<< <i>I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Sean Reynolds >>
It's still shill bidding, and the "other location" is in the Sacramento area, same as "fairtraderz".
<< <i>I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Sean Reynolds >>
It's still shill bidding, and the "other location" is in the Sacramento area, same as "fairtraderz". >>
Absolutely, no argument here. Several years ago I caught a guy doing the same thing, I'd placed a big proxy bid on a clipped Lincoln before the weekend, and found Monday morning that someone had chipped away at it $1 at a time until I lost the coin. That afternoon I got an email that the high bidder had "backed out" and did I want the coin for my max bid of $30. A little digging into the bid history and a quick check of the "winner's" user info (this was back when eBay would let anyone check it) confirmed they lived in the same town. I wrote the seller and listed everything I'd found, and told him that I'd love the coin, but I'd only pay him one bid increment over the highest valid bid, which was around $3.50. I also mentioned how much SafeHarbor loved reading these sorts of stories. He sold me the coin for $3.50.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
They are the same pictures. Normally I would think he's just using a stock photo, but since ontime is involved in this, I don't think so. I have NOT contacted eBay or the Sacramento Police about this, but I am considering sending a link to this thread to the winners of fairtraderz auctions that had to outbid ontime.
I have NOT contacted eBay or the Sacramento Police about this
Don't bother, Ebay has already shown they won't police their own and shilling is not a "crime" that local police will handle.
Shill bidding is a consumer fraud complaint and should be filed with the AG's office of the applicable state. Since this dealer is in California -- contact Lockyer's office. He usually likes to follow what NY's AG is doing.
just do yourself a favor and don't do business with any of these guys. unfairscammer has been the subject of other threads, even threads where they've whined about stuff like sagging sales. go figure!! treat their listings like old friend ernie---when you check a listing and see their name, hit the back button post haste------------------------------------------------>and beat feet backwards.
jrgman2004..you seem quite naive..the owner already answered an email question about the coin in this thread and seemed to know all about what was going on and gave an explanation..and this company is not microsoft with many thousands of employees..its a small company with just a few employees i would guess
<< <i>jrgman2004..you seem quite naive..the owner already answered an email question about the coin in this thread and seemed to know all about what was going on and gave an explanation..and this company is not microsoft with many thousands of employees..its a small company with just a few employees i would guess >>
So, that makes whats happening ok then? NOT I say shut this guy down and make ebay police their auctions. I used to sell laptops on the bay and got two or three auctions stopped because I didnt say the units came with the license for the software, but it did have the operating system installed.......
Family, kids, coins, sports (playing not watching), jet skiing, wakeboarding, Big Air....no one ever got hurt in the air....its the sudden stop that hurts. I hate Hurricane Sandy. I hate FEMA and i hate the blasted insurance companies.
Well, I got outbid by "jetaco" and then raised my max to $40, and was still under jetaco's max bid. "Jetaco" has purchased many items from "fairtraderz" before, but none of the items are recent enough to determine if it was shill bidding. Well, I'm not going to play anymore, but will continue to watch the auction to see who wins this coin on its third trip thru Ebay!
The same thing just happened to me yesterday,no reserve auction,Im hi bidder with one day to go He yanks it...#3948720874.Item no longer available for sale Al
To whoever said that JLS moves coins at shows, he has that right. They handle stuff of all kinds, any quality, raw or slabbed. If you need it moved, they must be like Amercian Van Lines.
I guess when Laura mentioned in another thread that these guys "aren't wannabees, but real PLAYERS," we should have taken heed. Obviously they "play" quite a bit.
This is a great thread, a great education about shill bidding. Interesting though, "ontime" is a registered user on Ebay. Did he get kicked off and then re-instated. I have purchased a few coins from fairtraderz and paid my max bid everytime. Come to think of it I got outbid more so I just stopped bidding on coins from them a while ago. HUMMMMMMM
<< <i>Buyer renigned and seller didn't bother trying 2nd chance offer? Seller is a board member if I recall...just FYI. >>
I had a buyer renig on an auction I was bidding on and the seller did use the second chance offer I received an e-mail stating that I was being offered The Second Chance Offer, I never new there was such a thing on e-bay I immediately accepted and was able to get my wife her dang near cherry all original 1973 Nova, I can see where someone would avoid using the second chance after thinking they had a sale at a higher price and feeling disappointed with the next offer down the line. Why not relist maybe it will get that high again. I have always found that the best deals made are ones where both parties are very happy at the end of negotiations. Then everyone has a good day.
Please see tag line below
Edited to add: WOW my situation does not apply at all to this does it? Just Wow. This kind of thing just makes it rough on all of us. Couldn't imagine how many YN's have been turned off to the hobby due to such practices. Or possibly being burned themselves. Just a shame. Stew
Comments
<< <i>According to ontimes me page he's a dealer in clocks >>
That's handy...this way he knows what time to enter his shill bid...
I don't where you're getting this "everyone" standard from. Let me repeat it, for a third time now: the boss is responsible for the conduct of his employees. The organization is responsible and liable for the conduct of its employees. So it matters not if a receptionist didn't know about this illegal shilling -- the organization is still responsible. End of story.
please, I want to see some hard evidence... something you could actually take into a court and prove, not just circumstantial evidence...
You already have "hard" evidence -- examine the auctions themselves, with the same coins being won by the same bidders time and again. That's a prima facie case -- certainly enough to warrant a criminal referral to the authorities, and perhaps even prepare a criminal information (i.e. indictment). That's not a decision I get to make. But comment on? Absolutely I -- or anyone else -- can draw inferences and resonable presumptions, which is exactly what has been done.
And your demand for something more than "circumstantial" evidence is similarly misinformed. Perhaps you've heard of Scott Peterson -- you know, the guy who may receive the death penalty based on an entirely circumstantial evidence case? (It's a pop culture reference, but given the discussion thus far, it's one I thought you'd grasp.)
but I think it is irresponsible to call someone a crook in a public forum with only circumstantial evidence and "logic."
This is a misrepresentation of not only the state of affairs but also what has been said.
<< <i>It occurred on his watch, and I don't care if he actually did it, directed someone else to do it, or passively watched as it occurred -- the entire organization is corrupt. Fish rot from the head. >>
42/92
<< <i>With a feedback rating that is incredible and a five star customer service, we guaranty your satisfaction.
I don't know about this. Let's get confirmation. Braddick, are you satisfied with getting screwed? >>
I was the underbidder the second time around at $66. or so. I was actually a bit grateful I was outbid as I did place a high proxy bid thinking I'd win it for less than that I was taken back to see it four days later offered again is all.
I don't think I'll be bidding on it again.
peacockcoins
Noting that you've failed to respond to anything that I've said, thank you for my quote, as it confirms precisely what I said -- whether the head actually did it, or just sat by as the fraud occurred, it's a failure that starts at the top. Notably, you've failed to respond to my pointing out your original flaw about "assumption." The issue here is "presumption," not "assumption." If you think it's error to presume the head of a small coin operation has at least some idea of what in the h3ll is going on at his operation, we've nothing further to discuss. Here's the preview: I know I'm right.
And as I said, this is a fraud that is readily discernable. Seriously, this one's so freaking easy, it shows frightening stupidity by the malfeasors. And let me repeat it: frightening stupidity. Far from having to know about "every little detail," as you incorrectly stated, all the boss had to do was take a glance -- just a glance -- at his online operation, and WHAM -- the fraud hits you across the head like a two-by-four. And I posit such a glance either was, or should have been, taken over the course of the last months.
Gman, this one isn't even close. Not even. But I know you'll disagree; I am ass, right?
42/92
Fairtraderz address:
631-A N. Market Blvd.
Sacramento, CA 95834
John L. Schuch Rare Coins ICTA registration:
631-A N. Market Blvd.
Sacramento, CA 95834-1212
Give me a break.
<< <i> So has anyone that has reached a conclusion about what is going on here called 1-800-804-9896, or otherwise contacted the seller >>
I have emailed them twice. Got a response one of the questions. I posted it in a previous reply:
<< <i>Dear fairtraderz,
Hi, ... Didn't this same coin just sell a few days ago on auction 3945925492 ? >>
Their reply:
<< <i>It did, the customer upgraded his order and we sold him a higher grade and we kept this one...
>>
Now we have his answer:
It did, the customer upgraded his order and we sold him a higher grade and we kept this one...
"ontime" bought the coin TWICE, did he upgrade both times?
We know that's a lie. Now the facts show he's also doing it with other coins.
These are HARD facts, very easy to see and comprehend.
Now that this has been brought to his attention I hope "fairtraderz" does something about this soon.
Glenn
I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Also, the person that sent that question about the previous auction didn't really confront the issue. It did give 'fairtraders' some additional rope with which to hang himself, but didn't address the fundamental issue here. It would be nice if someone would call the number posted here several times, but it won't be me as I don't have a financial stake in the outcome here, nor do I have the stomach for conflict right now. Maybe my nerve will return after Christmas.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>
<< <i> So has anyone that has reached a conclusion about what is going on here called 1-800-804-9896, or otherwise contacted the seller >>
I have emailed them twice. Got a response one of the questions. I posted it in a previous reply:
<< <i>Dear fairtraderz,
Hi, ... Didn't this same coin just sell a few days ago on auction 3945925492 ? >>
Their reply:
<< <i>It did, the customer upgraded his order and we sold him a higher grade and we kept this one...
>>
>>
At least you got the courtesy of a reply. The three times I stopped by their table at a show, no one working there acknowledged my presence. Once I asked to look at an early commemorative I wanted. I knew that I could not afford it in MS-66 and asked if they had one in 64 (for which I had cash in my pocket). They blew me off and told me to look on eBay instead for a $250 coin which they implied wasn't worth their while to take to a show.
<< <i>Seems to me that there are two people that I would be afraid to do business with.....
VERY nice seated dime coinfarmer!!!
Doug
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Contact Page for Lockyer
And you can tell him about what NY's AG is doing ---
New York Attorney-General Goes After eBay Shill Bidders
By Ina Steiner
AuctionBytes.com
November 09, 2004
Three eBay sellers pleaded guilty to criminal charges stemming from actions they took to inflate the prices of artwork and other merchandise that was sold in eBay auctions, according to New York's State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. The defendants were known by various eBay User IDs including "sambuca914," "gutek914," "zugnicht," and "fourlizards." In two other cases, defendants entered into civil settlements with the Attorney General's office for illegally bidding up sports memorabilia and automobiles sold in online auctions.
According to the criminal charges, three eBay sellers cast bids in over 1,100 of each others' eBay auctions for the sole purpose of driving up the price of the merchandise that they offered for sale over a five-year period. The practice is known by eBayers as shill bidding, which is against eBay's policy.
The Attorney General's office reported that Jerrold Schuster, former owner of the New Windsor Auction Gallery, pleaded guilty to Combination in Restraint of Trade, a violation of the New York antitrust law, a felony punishable by a maximum of four years in prison, and that Schuster's former employees pleaded guilty to Attempted Combination in Restraint of Trade, a misdemeanor antitrust violation, punishable by up to one year in prison.
In one auction, according to the AG, Schuster's New Windsor Gallery "shilled up" by more than $7,300 an oil painting attributed to Hudson River School artist Ralph Blakelock (1847-1919). As part of the disposition, the office said Schuster is expected to pay $50,000 in restitution and fines.
In a separate civil case, Robert Baranovich and his son, Steven Baranovich, of West Babylon, agreed to pay $10,000 in penalties and restitution to consumers harmed by their shill bidding. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order settling the case, the Attorney General alleged that the Baranoviches placed 170 phony bids in 165 of their own eBay auctions of sports memorabilia.
In another civil case, Richard Eggleston, Darryl Lien, and David Printy, together with a related corporation, Daryl Lien, Inc., agreed to pay more than $28,000 in penalties and restitution for their shill bidding practices. In a complaint filed with the Consent Order, the Attorney General alleged that they placed 610 bids in 106 of their own auto auctions under the user ID "Mother's Custom Automotive NY Dealer."
The Attorney General's office has identified more than 120 consumers who paid more for items as a result of shill bidding activities in the three cases.
Earlier this year, three eBay sellers pled guilty to shill bidding in an infamous case of art fraud that included an item that was made to look like a painting by famed artist Richard Diebenkorn. Kenneth Fetterman was one of three men who allegedly spearheaded a fraudulent bidding scheme on eBay for nearly two years. He was sentenced May 25 to 46 months in prison and ordered to pay $94,000 in restitution by the Eastern District Court of California.
<< <i>I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Sean Reynolds >>
It's still shill bidding, and the "other location" is in the Sacramento area, same as "fairtraderz".
<< <i>
<< <i>I think someone else hit the nail on the head - I doubt this is 'fairtraderz' bidding onhis own auctions, or even someone else in his organization, I think 'ontime' is a buddy at another location placing phantom reserves for him.
Sean Reynolds >>
It's still shill bidding, and the "other location" is in the Sacramento area, same as "fairtraderz". >>
Absolutely, no argument here. Several years ago I caught a guy doing the same thing, I'd placed a big proxy bid on a clipped Lincoln before the weekend, and found Monday morning that someone had chipped away at it $1 at a time until I lost the coin. That afternoon I got an email that the high bidder had "backed out" and did I want the coin for my max bid of $30. A little digging into the bid history and a quick check of the "winner's" user info (this was back when eBay would let anyone check it) confirmed they lived in the same town. I wrote the seller and listed everything I'd found, and told him that I'd love the coin, but I'd only pay him one bid increment over the highest valid bid, which was around $3.50. I also mentioned how much SafeHarbor loved reading these sorts of stories.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/39/38538/s95a.jpg 1'st time sold to ontime $66
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/39/38538/s95a.jpg ontime bid $65
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/39/38538/s95a.jpg ontime bid $65
Sean
They are the same pictures.
Normally I would think he's just using a stock photo, but since ontime is involved in this, I don't think so.
I have NOT contacted eBay or the Sacramento Police about this, but I am considering sending a link to this thread to the winners of fairtraderz auctions that had to outbid ontime.
Glenn
Don't bother, Ebay has already shown they won't police their own and shilling is not a "crime" that local police will handle.
Shill bidding is a consumer fraud complaint and should be filed with the AG's office of the applicable state. Since this dealer is in California -- contact Lockyer's office. He usually likes to follow what NY's AG is doing.
TPN
al h.
First Name: Gary
Last Name: Hale
Nickname: fairtraderzz
City: Sacramento
Province/State: California
Country: United States
Website: rare-things.com
Message Posts: 60
Joined: January 14th, 2003 6:54 PM
Last Visited On: May 15th, 2003 6:36 PM
Average Posts Per Day: 0.08
Status:
<< <i>jrgman2004..you seem quite naive..the owner already answered an email question about the coin in this thread and seemed to know all about what was going on and gave an explanation..and this company is not microsoft with many thousands of employees..its a small company with just a few employees i would guess >>
So, that makes whats happening ok then? NOT I say shut this guy down and make ebay police their auctions. I used to sell laptops on the bay and got two or three auctions stopped because I didnt say the units came with the license for the software, but it did have the operating system installed.......
hccs2 and megacoinvault
are both gone. Just have to supply enough evidence
Well, I got outbid by "jetaco" and then raised my max to $40, and was still under jetaco's max bid. "Jetaco" has purchased many items from "fairtraderz" before, but none of the items are recent enough to determine if it was shill bidding. Well, I'm not going to play anymore, but will continue to watch the auction to see who wins this coin on its third trip thru Ebay!
Now "fairtraderz" yanked the auction! Yanked Auction
Reason was "item is no longer available for sale".
Yeah, right. Instead of shill bidding, they are just pulling the auction when the price does not meet their implicit reserve price.
Well, let's see if it gets listed for a 4th, time, should 'ol "fairtraderz" be so bold!!
He yanks it...#3948720874.Item no longer available for sale
Al
Glenn
Camelot
Well the bidders sure didn't think so -- they purportedly bought it and then flaked multiple times!
<< <i>The coin just isnt that special.
Well the bidders sure didn't think so -- they purportedly bought it and then flaked multiple times! >>
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>"ontime" Not a registered user anymore!
Glenn >>
Yes, I think someone at eBay may have read this thread.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
They handle stuff of all kinds, any quality, raw or slabbed. If you need it moved, they must be like Amercian Van Lines.
I guess when Laura mentioned in another thread that these guys "aren't wannabees, but real PLAYERS," we should have taken heed. Obviously they "play" quite a bit.
roadrunner
<< <i>Wow, just wow.
Indeed. This is why eBay has changed since the good ol' days. We know who eBay is protecting, and it ain't the good guys.
<< <i>Buyer renigned and seller didn't bother trying 2nd chance offer? Seller is a board member if I recall...just FYI. >>
I had a buyer renig on an auction I was bidding on and the seller did use the second chance offer I received an e-mail stating that I was being offered The Second Chance Offer, I never new there was such a thing on e-bay I immediately accepted and was able to get my wife
her dang near cherry all original 1973 Nova, I can see where someone would avoid using the second chance after thinking they had a sale at a higher price and feeling disappointed with the next offer down the line. Why not relist maybe it will get that high again.
I have always found that the best deals made are ones where both parties are very happy at the end of negotiations. Then everyone has a good day.
Please see tag line below
Edited to add: WOW my situation does not apply at all to this does it? Just Wow. This kind of thing just makes it rough on all of us. Couldn't imagine how many YN's have been turned off to the hobby due to such practices. Or possibly being burned themselves. Just a shame.
Stew
If it looks like ####
Smells like ####
feels like ####
Taste like ####
Chances are VERY good that it is ####