Lewis and Clark Pouches - More Available From the Mint 20 Dec

CoinGuy42 · December 18, 2004 7:54AM

Just in case you hadn't yet heard......the US MINT will again sell these Beginning Dec 20th at noon (eastern).

ziggy29 · December 18, 2004 9:21AM

<< Just in case you hadn't yet heard......the US MINT will again sell these Beginning Dec 20th at noon (eastern). >>

If these are indistinguishable from the first ones that "sold out"... there are going to be a lot of people who paid huge premiums for these sets in the aftermarket who will be none too pleased...

Weiss · December 18, 2004 9:36AM

I think that is a really crappy thing for them to do. I think the mint owes the collectors, and yes, even the speculators, who purchase mint products a degree of protection.

But when you think about it, it's not the speculators who get burned. After all, they bought at retail and sold at a profit. Nope, it's the collector who bought on the secondary market at inflated prices caused by supply and demand who'll have the rug yanked out from under them. Bought it yesterday at $200 only to find out it will be $80 tomorrow. Not due to natural market ebb and flow, but because the mint dumps product. I don't doubt that someone at the mint watches secondary market prices very carefully. Releasing more product from a sold-out series *after* the market has caused prices to increase, and therefore profiting on that price increase, smacks market manipulation ala the Hunt brothers.

MacCrimmon · December 18, 2004 9:50AM

<< Bought it yesterday at $200 only to find out it will be $80 tomorrow. >>

IMHO, anyone paying even $80 for a 2" leather pouch should have their head examined. The next story will be that Wampum Joe didn't really make these trinkets, rather it was a prison sweatshop in the PRC.

ldhair · December 18, 2004 9:51AM

Sounds about right for the mint.

foodude · December 18, 2004 10:20AM

Warning, if the FooDude decides to order some of these on Monday, the secondary market will surely tank... Hmm what will the FooDude do

And he hasn't order anything from the mint since '97 ... Should he order smoe or not???

magikbilly · December 18, 2004 12:05PM

Are these completely useless also - or does the Mint suggest you can actually use this latest version to store the coin in?

Billy

OnlyBuffalos · December 18, 2004 12:18PM

You have got to be kidding. Maybe the mint is going to start making coins bearing dates from the eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century again as they also are sold out. Is this their way of helping to pay down the multi-trillion dollar debt?

Does the mint understand the ramifications of doing this? Maybe this is their way of reducing speculation. Maybe this is their way of demonstrating their marketing incompetence.

I wish someone could explain the logic of doing this. It can't be greed, or can it?

Neptune · December 18, 2004 5:12PM

what a shoddy thing to do. Who makes the rules anyway.

DirtroadRider · December 18, 2004 9:48PM

Maybe these are the ones that where returned to the Mint by buyers who changed their mind after receiving the pouch?? And not a New sell campaign offered by the Mint.

darktone · December 18, 2004 10:41PM

They better explain themselves quick or they will lose a lot of customers!

SilverDollarMan · December 18, 2004 11:52PM

<< You have got to be kidding. Maybe the mint is going to start making coins bearing dates from the eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth century again as they also are sold out. Is this their way of helping to pay down the multi-trillion dollar debt?

Does the mint understand the ramifications of doing this? Maybe this is their way of reducing speculation. Maybe this is their way of demonstrating their marketing incompetence.

I wish someone could explain the logic of doing this. It can't be greed, or can it? >>

I believe these r returns!

FatMan · December 19, 2004 12:22AM

The mint remains limited to 50,000 sets. There has been no change in the legislation. I am sure these are the result of returns. It has been the norm lately for people to order these mint collectible packages in quantity hedging their bets that the Mint will be doing something special with the coin. As this is a plain jane Proof coin, and the pouch is so small and undistiquished, I am sure thousands have been returned. Now that the returns are in and time has past they now have a handle on available inventory. Time to sell again. As they are commited to the program beneficiary to market the program to maximize sales it would be irresponsible not to do so. The Mint is very clever in the language they use. They have never said this was "Sold Out". They say "Product is Not Available". It is the likes of NN and Coin World that use the phrase "Sold Out". As long the the 50,000 set limit is maintained........no harm, no foul.

KISHU1 · December 19, 2004 12:46AM

I belive tha initially these sets sold quickly and thus were no longer available from the mint. I am sure that many buyers held on to their sets for a while and then decided to return them when they saw that most of the sets were average quality and only some of the sets had better pouches and were bringing much higher prices. The average pouches are not worth any more than issue price so I think these are the sets that are being sent back for "quality reasons" and it just took time to get them ready for sale again. The Mint has a return policy, unfortunatly anything returned is repackaged and resold, so don't count on getting any of the better pouches. The mint is limited by legislation for any special issue and these are part of that mintage.

dpoole · December 19, 2004 12:57AM

"Product is Not Available" may mean it's Sold Out or it may not. The language, while clever, is not informative (as language was originally designed to be).

As long as the production run is faithful to that originally legislated and advertised, though, there seems to be no beef, since the speculators and secondary market buyers bought with that level of scarcity in mind.

Now as to the substance of the purchase decision, I can see rolling the dice that the coin may have a special finish made sense. But I could never see paying the premium for a pouch sight-unseen. I know a little about coins, but getting into pouch collecting or pouch speculation makes me a dumb newbie all over again.

Once is enough for me!

GAT · December 19, 2004 2:23AM

Reopening sales of The State Quarter First Day Covers is what killed that market. The FDCs have never recovered since. I own 50 that I paid $1,000 for and wish I didn't. I would advise everyone to steer clear of the pouches.

ldhair · December 19, 2004 2:46AM

This reminds me of when the mint was talking of more Buff. Comm. dollars.

BillJones · December 19, 2004 4:25AM

This is a sad commentary.

The mint starts is issuing these “limited edition” pouches again, yet they have no 2004 clad Proof sets to sell despite the fact that the year is not over, and they are still advertising them on TV. I’d have no problem if the mint struck more Proof sets to meet demand DURING THE CALENDAR YEAR, but they did not bother. Yet they CAN get more of these silly bogus pouches to sell. A Bronx cheer to THAT!

Hey look it’s the government. What else do expect from a government agency?

MrEureka · December 19, 2004 8:20PM

According to the Mint's website:

This set has a limit of to up to 50,000 units, based on availability of the American Indian pouches.

Does anyone know if this text has been there all along? Assuming so, it should have been easy enough to infer that the Mint did not know in advance how many pouches would be available because they were still being produced. Obviously, they intended to sell as many as they could, up to 50,000. The fact that they temporarily ran out of pouches should not have convinced anyone that the Mint's intention had changed.

BTW, these things are probably a good speculative play. But I won't be buying any. I just don't have an interest in collecting leather pouches.

RYK · September 26, 2009 11:52PM

A trip down memory lane...

<< 

<< Bought it yesterday at $200 only to find out it will be $80 tomorrow. >>

IMHO, anyone paying even $80 for a 2" leather pouch should have their head examined. The next story will be that Wampum Joe didn't really make these trinkets, rather it was a prison sweatshop in the PRC. >>

Isn't that how the story played out?

notwilight · September 27, 2009 12:39AM

Looks like they are $100 on ebay now. --Jerry

keets · September 27, 2009 1:20AM

Isn't that how the story played out?

perhaps, but it's more likely that this is how rumors get started.

RYK · September 27, 2009 1:26AM

<< Isn't that how the story played out?

perhaps, but it's more likely that this is how rumors get started. >>

Actually, it does not appear that this was ever proven.

It looks like there may have been a political glitch or a technicality that cast a shroud over the Shawnee pouches.

notwilight · September 27, 2009 1:31AM

<< 

<< Isn't that how the story played out?

perhaps, but it's more likely that this is how rumors get started. >>

Actually, it does not appear that this was ever proven.

It looks like there may have been a political glitch or a technicality that cast a shroud over the Shawnee pouches. >>

Ok. Let me get this straight. Buyers were looking for authentic American Indian craftwork. Some were crafted by American Indians that are not officially recognized by the big Government Bureaucracy so these aren't "authentic". Makes sense to me. --Jerry

RYK · September 27, 2009 1:32AM

<< 

<< 

<< Isn't that how the story played out?

perhaps, but it's more likely that this is how rumors get started. >>

Actually, it does not appear that this was ever proven.

It looks like there may have been a political glitch or a technicality that cast a shroud over the Shawnee pouches. >>

Ok. Let me get this straight. Buyers were looking for authentic American Indian craftwork. Some were crafted by American Indians that are not officially recognized by the big Government Bureaucracy so these aren't "authentic". Makes sense to me. --Jerry >>

It makes about as much sense as anything the Feds do.

keets · September 27, 2009 8:30AM

wow........................i can sum things up with what was on the front of a T-shirt that i saw, quite ironically, at a coin show. it said Should you trust the Government??? Just ask a Native American.

touche · September 27, 2009 9:32AM

So the Shawnee pouches are US Mint "error" pouches.

CopperWire · September 27, 2009 1:33PM

buy the coin not the leather errr...plastic.

Lewis and Clark Pouches - More Available From the Mint 20 Dec

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