Current Bullion Prices as of: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 01:20 PM Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change Gold $444.80 $445.20 $439.70 $440.00 $4.80 Silver $7.64 $7.65 $7.55 $7.56 $0.08 Platinum $876.50 $876.50 $867.50 $867.50 $9.00 littlejohn p.s. its almost at $450.00 now,i said 30 days.
interesting comments from DHeath and Oreville. Perhaps a devaluation in the dollar is a done deal and is in the progress of being built into the markets.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The dollar chart has just plain looked terrible for the past 2 years. A complete head and shoulders formation that peaked out long ago. The right side has just caved in. Just the opposite of gold of course.
The buyers for gold won't be people with ARM's bleeding them dry or those with $37K in savings. Rather, buyers will be people that have millions or billions to spend. There are plenty of them along with demand from overseas to fuel the gold bull.
Gold is real money. Eventually the foreign currencies will start to move opposite to gold as they weaken one by one. At that point gold will be in a very strong up-move. When that happens, the reigns will be totally off gold. It's funny that the strong Rand in South Africa is killing their input to the world's gold production. The reduction in supply will only fuel a stronger move in gold.
Goldsaint -- you ignore the massive transfer of wealth that is starting to take place from the boomer's parents to the boomers. If the boomers haven't saved, their Depression-era parents have probably done it for them already.
“Goldsaint -- you ignore the massive transfer of wealth that is starting to take place from the boomer's parents to the boomers. If the boomers haven't saved, their Depression-era parents have probably done it for them already.” Coinosaurus
I know you have said this before, and this is correct, but then here is my questions about inheritance,
Many of the early boomers have already received their inheritance, and that has not affected the $37,000 average.
Will the later boomers, that have obviously been poor savers, on receipt of their inheritance just go out and blow the money like they always have, or will they overnight become very frugal?
In addition, at last count there was 120 million adults in the U.S. that pay NO Federal Taxes what so ever. In that group there must be millions of the older generation that will leave very little in the way of inheritance to their boomer children.
“The buyers for gold won't be people with ARM's bleeding them dry or those with $37K in savings. Rather, buyers will be people that have millions or billions to spend. There are plenty of them along with demand from overseas to fuel the gold bull.”
I think RR is right, I still expect a big move in Gold produced by the super rich that have loads of inflated paper to spend, but I don’t expect this to be a broad market like the 70’s. I also don’t believe when the super rich start buying they will be looking to cherry pick MS 65 coins. You have no time to pick through the market if you want to buy thousands of ounces, so if indeed we have a very big move into Gold, the bullion price will out run the numismatic prices.
“you ignore the massive transfer of wealth that is starting to take place from the boomer's parents to the boomers. If the boomers haven't saved, their Depression-era parents have probably done it for them already.” Coinosaurus
You guys must live in a different world than most folks. A working man like my dad, an electrician couldn't save enough money to transfer much wealth to us 3 kids. If we get 50k each that would be huge and who says that one of them won't get sick and the goverment takes their life savings so they can spend their days in a rest home after a stroke.
I do agree with those thinking buying XF-low BU classic gold maybe better than cherry picking high grade coins. Like any hobby you have to have rich people to buy those grades but a coin that costs under $300 has a bigger pool of people that can afford it and therefore much easier to sell. The US has pulled the world out of many ecomonic issues, the free fall of Russian money being on of them. Can Europe make the world ecomony stable if the dollar free falls. We'll see but I'm putting away some hard assests. JMO
Current Bullion Prices as of: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:36 AM Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change Gold $442.50 $445.10 $440.30 $444.90 ($2.40) Silver $7.59 $7.67 $7.56 $7.65 ($0.06) Platinum $858.75 $872.50 $858.75 $872.50 ($13.75)
There is no better culmination of the evil of the past 45 years than the situation of pore ole Joe Sixpak and his inability to "afford" the only currency in the world immune to borders and political whims.
Ain't it too bad? Joe 6p has mortgaged his DWELLING for a 38 foot TV set and a Hummer.
While CORPORATIONS have .....b i l l i o n s......to spend on any damn thing they want.
Ole Joe has pursued "the ALMIGHTY dollar" cuz he was TOLD to. And, oh lookee here, it may all be for naught. I think Joe mighta knew something was wrong when the government became the "elite" with FUNCTIONARIES being pensioned at onerous amounts on the backs of the productive. But Joe dint do nuttin.
Well, folks, here we are. Gold being "unaffordable" to the "average" man is not a barrier to its rise in value against a currency of a country being "warred" to death.....AGAIN.....and "quota'ed" into complete incompetence.
While CORPORATIONS have .....b i l l i o n s......to spend on any damn thing they want.
A good part of this is right, and no one voted for Bush thinking he would get to involved putting the breaks on corporations. I guess there is really no one out there protecting the rights of the workingman anymore. The Democrats certainly did not do it during the 8 years Clinton was in.
I like most of you receive many unsolicited ads ever week via E-mail and fax offering to sell us every penny stock deal that comes down the pike. Where are the State and Federal regulators?
Clinton might have had some excuses on certain issues regarding passage of bills through the congress, but he really had no excuse not to put in place tough regulators at the SEC and tell them not to let widows, and the Joe 6 packs buy into these worthless Dotcom deals, and other high flyers with no assets. As the President of the workingman, I guess he did have one excuse, he was working on plans for his library!
So no, Joe and the merry widows will not be participating in the hard asset boom that we are moving into cause they already blew their money in the stock market.
Gold is really just a commodity when all is said and done. It will never be the basis of a money supply again. If you are buying gold in euros right now, you are probably pretty happy. Think about how many euros it took to buy an ounce of gold in 2000 versus how many it takes today. We are just experiencing a declining dollar with respect to a commodity.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Greenspan's comments on the deficit certainly did not help the dollar today. But the gold holders really liked it. The spawning of the gold ETF also helped gold.
His hinting of high inflation is very bullish for metals and other hard assets. I have been playing these [metals, timber, land, FOREX] for the last 24 months and did nicely, now where do I put profits? Everything looks pricey.
There are structural problems which will result in inflation. While inflation is destabilizing in itself it does restore balance to some of the largest inequities such as shipping raw ma- terials and finished products back and forth across the globe to capitalize on cheap labor markets or arbitrage. These inequities have been taking jobs out of this country and ex- porting them abroad and now it will cost some of the short sighted companies that did it. While plant and equipment is more mobile than ever before it still requires huge amounts of capital to relocate.
Don't look for gold to move straight up at the current time. There will at some point be a fairly large move out of the dollar and this in itself will spur a massive gold rally, but will probably be short lived as investors worldwide realize that the dollar simply is not going to collapse. It will lose at least another 30% of its value and possibly as much as 80% before it finds new footing. This will probably be played out over several years while we have infla- tion. There should be unprecedented opportunities to make money over this period but of course this comes with many unique ways to lose money. The ones who do best will use common sense and will not panic. Those who do poorly will tend to be the greedy and the frightened bears.
Great reply Topstuf. You hit the nail on the head multiple times in plain old "Cajun English." Joe 6 Pack has been bled dry and the banks and corporations got the money.
Sorry, but gold has been, currently is, and will continue to be REAL MONEY. The brainwashing that has been done to Joe 6Pk over the past 25 years was a great con job. Gold is the only real money out there.
Shipping from china to the USA is nothing i can order a product from china shipped here in the usa three day turn around delivered at my door for 5.00 that's product and shipping cost 5.00 usa i buy the product here it's 140.00 and for me to move it arcossed town it cost 9.00 usa or 149.00 so you do the math as to why the company's are going over seas they are billed at their rate in china they don't pay our rate on any thing
<< <i>Great reply Topstuf. You hit the nail on the head multiple times in plain old "Cajun English." Joe 6 Pack has been bled dry and the banks and corporations got the money.
Sorry, but gold has been, currently is, and will continue to be REAL MONEY. The brainwashing that has been done to Joe 6Pk over the past 25 years was a great con job. Gold is the only real money out there.
roadrunner >>
Why is it that Josef six pack over in Europe isn't seeing gold soaring in price and the euro declining? Their currency is made out of the same thin air and electrons that ours is. It would seem as though if the currency is going to collapse because people suddenly realize it's not based on gold then all currency should collapse. While some may relish such a thought the fact remains that the world will not func- tion without currency and will not fail with it.
All money derives all its value from people's belief in it. When issuers go too deep in debt or maintain huge trade deficits then the imbalances and new money issued to keep the system afloat lower peoples' estimation of its value which is the defin- ition of inflation. But this inflation works against the causes of it. Inflation will re- duce trade imbalances by making foreign products more expensive, and by making the debt more easily managed.
The Chinese yuan is locked at 8.24 to the USA dollar no trade on it ever it never free trades so no matter what it stay in lock to our dollar so no matter what happens things are cheap in china
Gold is really NOT in a BULL market but has just adjusted to keep up with the price inflation that has occurred in everything else.
A dollar your forefathers saved in the early 1800s would buy the same amount of goods and services as a dollar they saved in the early 1900s! Can you imagine living in an environment where housing prices never skyrocketed, where grocery prices were always constant, where transportation and energy prices never rose, and where the value of money was as solid as the gold that fully backed it? Compared to today’s tragic environment where the prices of life’s necessities relentlessly rise every year and impoverish millions, the Age of Gold was financial paradise!
The below figures are based on the published CPI, which we all know has been “ Messed with” the last few years by deleting important components. In the last 100 plus years the prices of most other goods and services have risen 21 times. Assuming Gold was worth about $20 per ounce in 1900 then today Gold should be at $420 and perhaps as high as $500 due to the manipulated CPI. Buying Gold between $420 and $500 per ounce just keeps you even, anywhere below that is a bargain. This year the REAL CPI increases should be 5% to 7% and Gold should be up a minimum of $25 per ounce just to keep pace.
As we all know, Governments and central bankers hate for the public to own Gold, and consistently manipulate the price down any time the price gets very close to real CPI numbers. Until such time that investors panic and adopt a position of buying large amounts, and holding for the long term, it may be that the price just floats in its normal inflation adjusted price range.
Cost of a $1000 market basket of Goods and Services(based on CPI) in 1900 US dollar terms:
Already this morning we have the downward manipulation !!
France to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold By Kevin Morrison in London Published: November 20 2004 02:00 | Last updated: November 20 2004 02:00
The Bank of France and the French finance ministry yesterday agreed to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold reserves over the next five years and use the proceeds to help the country's deficit-ridden budget. At current prices, the sale of 600 tonnes would generate $8.6bn (€6.6bn, £4.6bn). "Extra revenues for the state resulting from this action will be dedicated ... to the reduction of public deficits and to the financing of long-term employment, particularly in the area of research," the central bank and finance ministry said in a joint statement. The proposed sale equates to almost 20 per cent of the 3,025 tonnes held by the central bank, the fourth largest holder of gold after the US, Germany and the International Monetary Fund. The confirmation by the French central bank fills a significant part of the Central Bank Gold Agreement, which was renewed at the end of September for another five-year term by 15 central banks which agreed to sell collectively up to 500 tonnes a year under the new accord.
The proposed sale equates to almost 20 per cent of the 3,025 tonnes held by the French central bank, the fourth largest holder of gold after the US, Germany and the International Monetary Fund.
Germany plans to sell up to 600 tonnes in coming years and the Netherlands plans to dispose of 165 tonnes. Switzerland said it would sell 130 tonnes, reducing its bullion holdings from 2,600 tonnes in 1996 to about 1,300 tonnes.
It appears to me that until the Worlds Gold supplies are back in the hands of the people all we will ever see of a Gold run is just inflation adjusted selling by the Worlds central Banks. They do appear to have some sort of selling agreement to sell, and pay down debt. Lord only knows all of the major developed countries have plenty of debt to pay down. The simple fact is that without a World wide cry concerning fiat paper, the Gold price will adjust to inflation, and the central bankers will sell and drive the price back. With so many tonnes of Gold waiting in the wings to be sold, I don’t think that we may see the very high prices predicted by most Gold bugs, including myself, for many years. In fact a better investment overall at this point might be 100 ounce silver bars even though they are a pain to buy and store, and not coin related.
Why is it that Josef six pack over in Europe isn't seeing gold soaring in price and the euro declining? Their currency is made out of the same thin air and electrons that ours is. It would seem as though if the currency is going to collapse because people suddenly realize it's not based on gold then all currency should collapse.
Who said anything about collapsing? Gold is there as a buffer to counter the moves of currency inflation. The paper will give the currency the faith it has earned. Gold is there to counter the abuses. Give the other world currencies some time to catch the same disease that our US dollar is spreading due to overprinting and overborrowing. The other currencies will eventually fall behind gold to indicate a world-wide bull market in PM's.
Inflation is simply the effects of increasing the money supply. If you double the amount of money available, you'll double the prices of most tangible goods. The govt can play tricks to massage this down by "fuzzy" economic indicators, but eventually the truth is told.
The Bank of France and the French finance ministry yesterday agreed to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold reserves over the next five years and use the proceeds to help the country's deficit-ridden budget.
This is probably all puff. The Germans have said the same thing as have others. Who will be the first stupid nation to dump one of the only accelerlating assets on the market in return for paper? Go ahead, step up. Argentina has bought over 50 tons back this year. Smart move. They got rid of useless paper for an appreciating asset. India was essentially bankrupt in the early 1990's and sold off much of their gold reserves to prevent collapsing. Since then, they have come back strong and still use gold as a means to stay strong. In India, gold is kept by the public as a means to hold their wealth, a foreign concept to the US since our monetary system was made of gold and silver until 1933 and 1964. How soon we forget.
Don't look for any central bank sales any time soon. Maybe one country might step up to put up a good show. They'll draw straws to see who it is. I doubt the central bankers even own a majority of the gold in the world today. They sold half or more of it off in the 1990's to keep the gold price down and currencies strong. Their books are not auditable so one cannot see how much gold is really left. Probably not much. Even the gold at "Fort Knox" may no longer belong to the US govt. It hasn't been audited since the early 1950's and won't be audited anytime soon. Certainly a large portion of our stock is no longer under our ownership as it too was sold by the US Treasury's Exchange Stabilization Fund to keep gold at bay during the dollar's strong run in the 1990's.
Central bank ammo is heavily exhausted. These next 10 years will be far different for gold than the 1990's were. Gold is back in the hands of the people. Thousands of central bank sales have been melted in jewelry and cannot be brought back. Gold has been going into strong hands for a decade. It's not going to be dumped on the market as soon as gold hits $500 or higher. The people that bought gold did so for insurance. Very little physical gold has been changing hands when the gold price falls. It's only paper contracts that have been traded....a shill game if you will. If the physical gold had to be moved on each trade, the ESF and all their friends wouldn't be able to mount any type of charge. But this paper game is wearing very thin, and the COT is losing the ability to scare out the growing number of longer term gold holders on "fancifull" paper selling. The future is changing. The former gold emperor has no clothes.
Gold is the money of the world, no doubt about it...when all paper is stacked up in a pile it is worthless...it is all about gold. The preceeding threads are correct, there is plenty of gold around. We see portfolio managers saying to keep everything to from 5% to 20% in gold but I really don't know if that is where the play is...to be holding gold.
Here's a quick quote from a newspaper article ..."But investors should be aware that bullion and gold coins are considered "collectibles," so any returns from the new gold tracking ETF's would be taxed at a subtantially higher rate than the 15 percent applied to most long-term capital gains." I also remember that I would get a 1099 when ever I sold gold and I also recall from my business that I had to give 1099's and show evidence of them in my tax returns for those that I had paid money to. To me, this means the govt. is going to try to beat the hell outta anyone that tries to deal gold so have your cpa and paper trail up to speed.
Ultimately, as pretty as gold is and as nice an asset it is to own, for the regular guy, it just doesn't make any sense to chase after the asset looking for a little play and getting the hell beat outta you during the mean time. For me...make it US early gold coins! I held a 1797 drabed bust heraldic eagle yesterday, ngc au55. Wayyyyyyyy outta my league but then it just made me realize how nice my little indian tribe is to have...MS braves and squaws living in a little safe deposit box. Oddly enough, they are making money as the price of early US gold coins makes it's way to where ever it is going and I know they are not going to lose value.
My point here is that owning ETF's or gold bullion doesn't seem like a great move for me but I do like having a little gold around and early US coins is certainly a nice little play because you get the bullion and the numismatic in one piece. Maybe a guy with a few hundred k's to play with would have a different approach but I see only two things that I would go for...raw land in urban areas and early US gold coins. All this talk about owning bullion or stocks or paper just doesn't seem like it's a realistic play for the regular guy and stashing cash is going to be a case of diminishing returns for the next 4 years or so.
Current Bullion Prices as of: Monday, November 22, 2004 02:08 PM Market Now Closed Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change Gold $449.00 $449.00 $447.30 $447.30 $1.70 Silver $7.56 $7.61 $7.56 $7.60 ($0.04) Platinum $854.50 $858.50 $852.50 $858.50 ($4
Current Bullion Prices as of: Friday, November 26, 2004 08:16 AM Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change Gold $450.40 $450.60 $449.50 $449.50 $0.90 Silver $7.65 $7.65 $7.62 $7.62 $0.03 Platinum $862.50 $862.50 $860.50 $860.50 $2.00 --------------------------------------------------------------------- hi it did it,i said it on page one.and guess what , i was right it made to $450 in less than 30 days littlejohn
Comments
What fundamental reason should gold rise in value? There are many reasons.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
it got a new high.----
Current Bullion Prices
as of: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 01:20 PM
Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change
Gold $444.80 $445.20 $439.70 $440.00 $4.80
Silver $7.64 $7.65 $7.55 $7.56 $0.08
Platinum $876.50 $876.50 $867.50 $867.50 $9.00
littlejohn
p.s. its almost at $450.00 now,i said 30 days.
Gold is a bad investment, relative to other tangible assets.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
chart
A complete head and shoulders formation that peaked out long ago.
The right side has just caved in. Just the opposite of gold of course.
The buyers for gold won't be people with ARM's bleeding them dry or those with $37K in savings. Rather, buyers will be people that have millions or billions to spend. There are plenty of them along with demand from overseas to fuel the gold bull.
Gold is real money. Eventually the foreign currencies will start to move opposite to gold as they weaken one by one. At that point gold will be in a very strong up-move. When that happens, the reigns will be totally off gold. It's funny that the strong Rand in South Africa is killing their input to the world's gold production. The reduction in supply will only fuel a stronger move in gold.
roadrunner
Coinosaurus
I know you have said this before, and this is correct, but then here is my questions about inheritance,
Many of the early boomers have already received their inheritance, and that has not affected the $37,000 average.
Will the later boomers, that have obviously been poor savers, on receipt of their inheritance just go out and blow the money like they always have, or will they overnight become very frugal?
In addition, at last count there was 120 million adults in the U.S. that pay NO Federal Taxes what so ever. In that group there must be millions of the older generation that will leave very little in the way of inheritance to their boomer children.
“The buyers for gold won't be people with ARM's bleeding them dry or those with $37K in savings. Rather, buyers will be people that have millions or billions to spend. There are plenty of them along with demand from overseas to fuel the gold bull.”
I think RR is right, I still expect a big move in Gold produced by the super rich that have loads of inflated paper to spend, but I don’t expect this to be a broad market like the 70’s. I also don’t believe when the super rich start buying they will be looking to cherry pick MS 65 coins. You have no time to pick through the market if you want to buy thousands of ounces, so if indeed we have a very big move into Gold, the bullion price will out run the numismatic prices.
Coinosaurus
You guys must live in a different world than most folks. A working man like my dad, an electrician couldn't save enough money to transfer much wealth to us 3 kids. If we get 50k each that would be huge and who says that one of them won't get sick and the goverment takes their life savings so they can spend their days in a rest home after a stroke.
I do agree with those thinking buying XF-low BU classic gold maybe better than cherry picking high grade coins. Like any hobby you have to have rich people to buy those grades but a coin that costs under $300 has a bigger pool of people that can afford it and therefore much easier to sell. The US has pulled the world out of many ecomonic issues, the free fall of Russian money being on of them. Can Europe make the world ecomony stable if the dollar free falls. We'll see but I'm putting away some hard assests. JMO
Current Bullion Prices
as of: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:36 AM
Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change
Gold $442.50 $445.10 $440.30 $444.90 ($2.40)
Silver $7.59 $7.67 $7.56 $7.65 ($0.06)
Platinum $858.75 $872.50 $858.75 $872.50 ($13.75)
Sprechen sie "Notgeld?"
There is no better culmination of the evil of the past 45 years than the situation of pore ole Joe Sixpak and his inability to "afford" the only currency in the world immune to borders and political whims.
Ain't it too bad? Joe 6p has mortgaged his DWELLING for a 38 foot TV set and a Hummer.
While CORPORATIONS have .....b i l l i o n s......to spend on any damn thing they want.
Ole Joe has pursued "the ALMIGHTY dollar" cuz he was TOLD to. And, oh lookee here, it may all be for naught. I think Joe mighta knew something was wrong when the government became the "elite" with FUNCTIONARIES being pensioned at onerous amounts on the backs of the productive. But Joe dint do nuttin.
Well, folks, here we are. Gold being "unaffordable" to the "average" man is not a barrier to its rise in value against a currency of a country being "warred" to death.....AGAIN.....and "quota'ed" into complete incompetence.
Ike warned us of this in the 50's.
A good part of this is right, and no one voted for Bush thinking he would get to involved putting the breaks on corporations.
I guess there is really no one out there protecting the rights of the workingman anymore. The Democrats certainly did not do it during the 8 years Clinton was in.
I like most of you receive many unsolicited ads ever week via E-mail and fax offering to sell us every penny stock deal that comes down the pike. Where are the State and Federal regulators?
Clinton might have had some excuses on certain issues regarding passage of bills through the congress, but he really had no excuse not to put in place tough regulators at the SEC and tell them not to let widows, and the Joe 6 packs buy into these worthless Dotcom deals, and other high flyers with no assets.
As the President of the workingman, I guess he did have one excuse, he was working on plans for his library!
So no, Joe and the merry widows will not be participating in the hard asset boom that we are moving into cause they already blew their money in the stock market.
That means it's time to BUY because there is no limit to the upside on this move
Or maybe it means it's time to SELL because it has peaked.
So you should definately BUY or SELL, or perhaps just HOLD.
Yep - it's one of those three
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
"China’s move to replace the U.S. as World economic leader"
After reading this a second time perhaps I best get back to Gold, and maybe even silver, and stop with these darned old Bust halves?
His hinting of high inflation is very bullish for metals and other hard assets. I have been playing these [metals, timber, land, FOREX] for the last 24 months and did nicely, now where do I put profits? Everything looks pricey.
in itself it does restore balance to some of the largest inequities such as shipping raw ma-
terials and finished products back and forth across the globe to capitalize on cheap labor
markets or arbitrage. These inequities have been taking jobs out of this country and ex-
porting them abroad and now it will cost some of the short sighted companies that did it.
While plant and equipment is more mobile than ever before it still requires huge amounts
of capital to relocate.
Don't look for gold to move straight up at the current time. There will at some point be a
fairly large move out of the dollar and this in itself will spur a massive gold rally, but will
probably be short lived as investors worldwide realize that the dollar simply is not going to
collapse. It will lose at least another 30% of its value and possibly as much as 80% before
it finds new footing. This will probably be played out over several years while we have infla-
tion. There should be unprecedented opportunities to make money over this period but of
course this comes with many unique ways to lose money. The ones who do best will use
common sense and will not panic. Those who do poorly will tend to be the greedy and the
frightened bears.
Sorry, but gold has been, currently is, and will continue to be REAL
MONEY. The brainwashing that has been done to Joe 6Pk over the past 25 years was a great con job. Gold is the only real money out there.
roadrunner
i can order a product from china shipped here in the usa three day turn around delivered at my door for 5.00
that's product and shipping cost 5.00 usa i buy the product here it's 140.00 and for me to move it arcossed town it cost 9.00 usa or 149.00
so you do the math as to why the company's are going over seas
they are billed at their rate in china they don't pay our rate on any thing
<< <i>Great reply Topstuf. You hit the nail on the head multiple times in plain old "Cajun English." Joe 6 Pack has been bled dry and the banks and corporations got the money.
Sorry, but gold has been, currently is, and will continue to be REAL
MONEY. The brainwashing that has been done to Joe 6Pk over the past 25 years was a great con job. Gold is the only real money out there.
roadrunner >>
Why is it that Josef six pack over in Europe isn't seeing gold soaring in price and
the euro declining? Their currency is made out of the same thin air and electrons
that ours is. It would seem as though if the currency is going to collapse because
people suddenly realize it's not based on gold then all currency should collapse.
While some may relish such a thought the fact remains that the world will not func-
tion without currency and will not fail with it.
All money derives all its value from people's belief in it. When issuers go too deep
in debt or maintain huge trade deficits then the imbalances and new money issued
to keep the system afloat lower peoples' estimation of its value which is the defin-
ition of inflation. But this inflation works against the causes of it. Inflation will re-
duce trade imbalances by making foreign products more expensive, and by making
the debt more easily managed.
free trades so no matter what it stay in lock to our dollar so no matter what happens things are cheap in china
Gold is really NOT in a BULL market but has just adjusted to keep up with the price inflation that has occurred in everything else.
A dollar your forefathers saved in the early 1800s would buy the same amount of goods and services as a dollar they saved in the early 1900s! Can you imagine living in an environment where housing prices never skyrocketed, where grocery prices were always constant, where transportation and energy prices never rose, and where the value of money was as solid as the gold that fully backed it? Compared to today’s tragic environment where the prices of life’s necessities relentlessly rise every year and impoverish millions, the Age of Gold was financial paradise!
The below figures are based on the published CPI, which we all know has been
“ Messed with” the last few years by deleting important components. In the last 100 plus years the prices of most other goods and services have risen 21 times. Assuming Gold was worth about $20 per ounce in 1900 then today Gold should be at $420 and perhaps as high as $500 due to the manipulated CPI. Buying Gold between $420 and $500 per ounce just keeps you even, anywhere below that is a bargain. This year the REAL CPI increases should be 5% to 7% and Gold should be up a minimum of $25 per ounce just to keep pace.
As we all know, Governments and central bankers hate for the public to own Gold, and consistently manipulate the price down any time the price gets very close to real CPI numbers. Until such time that investors panic and adopt a position of buying large amounts, and holding for the long term, it may be that the price just floats in its normal inflation adjusted price range.
Cost of a $1000 market basket of Goods and Services(based on CPI) in 1900 US dollar terms:
Years
1900 - $1,000
1913 - $1,159
1925 - $2,045
1950 - $2,858
1975 - $5,915
2000 - $19,950
2003 - $21,088
France to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold
By Kevin Morrison in London
Published: November 20 2004 02:00 | Last updated: November 20 2004 02:00
The Bank of France and the French finance ministry yesterday agreed to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold reserves over the next five years and use the proceeds to help the country's deficit-ridden budget. At current prices, the sale of 600 tonnes would generate $8.6bn (€6.6bn, £4.6bn).
"Extra revenues for the state resulting from this action will be dedicated ... to the reduction of public deficits and to the financing of long-term employment, particularly in the area of research," the central bank and finance ministry said in a joint statement.
The proposed sale equates to almost 20 per cent of the 3,025 tonnes held by the central bank, the fourth largest holder of gold after the US, Germany and the International Monetary Fund.
The confirmation by the French central bank fills a significant part of the Central Bank Gold Agreement, which was renewed at the end of September for another five-year term by 15 central banks which agreed to sell collectively up to 500 tonnes a year under the new accord.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The proposed sale equates to almost 20 per cent of the 3,025 tonnes held by the French central bank, the fourth largest holder of gold after the US, Germany and the International Monetary Fund.
Germany plans to sell up to 600 tonnes in coming years and the Netherlands plans to dispose of 165 tonnes. Switzerland said it would sell 130 tonnes, reducing its bullion holdings from 2,600 tonnes in 1996 to about 1,300 tonnes.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Lord only knows all of the major developed countries have plenty of debt to pay down.
The simple fact is that without a World wide cry concerning fiat paper, the Gold price will adjust to inflation, and the central bankers will sell and drive the price back. With so many tonnes of Gold waiting in the wings to be sold, I don’t think that we may see the very high prices predicted by most Gold bugs, including myself, for many years. In fact a better investment overall at this point might be 100 ounce silver bars even though they are a pain to buy and store, and not coin related.
Who said anything about collapsing? Gold is there as a buffer to counter the moves of currency inflation. The paper will give the currency the faith it has earned. Gold is there to counter the abuses.
Give the other world currencies some time to catch the same disease that our US dollar is spreading due to overprinting and overborrowing. The other currencies will eventually fall behind gold to indicate a world-wide bull market in PM's.
Inflation is simply the effects of increasing the money supply. If you double the amount of money available, you'll double the prices of most tangible goods. The govt can play tricks to massage this down by "fuzzy" economic indicators, but eventually the truth is told.
The Bank of France and the French finance ministry yesterday agreed to sell up to 600 tonnes of gold reserves over the next five years and use the proceeds to help the country's deficit-ridden budget.
This is probably all puff. The Germans have said the same thing as have others. Who will be the first stupid nation to dump one of the only accelerlating assets on the market in return for paper? Go ahead, step up. Argentina has bought over 50 tons back this year.
Smart move. They got rid of useless paper for an appreciating asset.
India was essentially bankrupt in the early 1990's and sold off much of their gold reserves to prevent collapsing. Since then, they have come back strong and still use gold as a means to stay strong. In India, gold is kept by the public as a means to hold their wealth, a foreign concept to the US since our monetary system was made of gold and silver until 1933 and 1964. How soon we forget.
Don't look for any central bank sales any time soon. Maybe one country might step up to put up a good show. They'll draw straws to see who it is. I doubt the central bankers even own a majority of the gold in the world today. They sold half or more of it off in the 1990's to keep the gold price down and currencies strong. Their books are not auditable so one cannot see how much gold is really left. Probably not much. Even the gold at "Fort Knox" may no longer belong to the US govt. It hasn't been audited since the early 1950's and won't be audited anytime soon. Certainly a large portion of our stock is no longer under our ownership as it too was sold by the US Treasury's Exchange Stabilization Fund to keep gold at bay during the dollar's strong run in the 1990's.
Central bank ammo is heavily exhausted. These next 10 years will be far different for gold than the 1990's were. Gold is back in the hands of the people. Thousands of central bank sales have been melted in jewelry and cannot be brought back. Gold has been going into strong hands for a decade. It's not going to be dumped on the market as soon as gold hits $500 or higher. The people that bought gold did so for insurance. Very little physical gold has been changing hands when the gold price falls. It's only paper contracts that have been traded....a shill game if you will. If the physical gold had to be moved on each trade, the ESF and all their friends wouldn't be able to mount any type of charge. But this paper game is wearing very thin, and the COT is losing the ability to scare out the growing number of longer term gold holders on "fancifull" paper selling. The future is changing. The former gold emperor has no clothes.
roadrunner
Here's a quick quote from a newspaper article ..."But investors should be aware that bullion and gold coins are considered "collectibles," so any returns from the new gold tracking ETF's would be taxed at a subtantially higher rate than the 15 percent applied to most long-term capital gains." I also remember that I would get a 1099 when ever I sold gold and I also recall from my business that I had to give 1099's and show evidence of them in my tax returns for those that I had paid money to. To me, this means the govt. is going to try to beat the hell outta anyone that tries to deal gold so have your cpa and paper trail up to speed.
Ultimately, as pretty as gold is and as nice an asset it is to own, for the regular guy, it just doesn't make any sense to chase after the asset looking for a little play and getting the hell beat outta you during the mean time. For me...make it US early gold coins! I held a 1797 drabed bust heraldic eagle yesterday, ngc au55. Wayyyyyyyy outta my league but then it just made me realize how nice my little indian tribe is to have...MS braves and squaws living in a little safe deposit box. Oddly enough, they are making money as the price of early US gold coins makes it's way to where ever it is going and I know they are not going to lose value.
My point here is that owning ETF's or gold bullion doesn't seem like a great move for me but I do like having a little gold around and early US coins is certainly a nice little play because you get the bullion and the numismatic in one piece. Maybe a guy with a few hundred k's to play with would have a different approach but I see only two things that I would go for...raw land in urban areas and early US gold coins. All this talk about owning bullion or stocks or paper just doesn't seem like it's a realistic play for the regular guy and stashing cash is going to be a case of diminishing returns for the next 4 years or so.
Just my thoughts.
Current Bullion Prices
as of: Monday, November 22, 2004 02:08 PM
Market Now Closed
Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change
Gold $449.00 $449.00 $447.30 $447.30 $1.70
Silver $7.56 $7.61 $7.56 $7.60 ($0.04)
Platinum $854.50 $858.50 $852.50 $858.50 ($4
These articles says Russia will sell dollars
Russia's central bank says it will review currency in its reserves, adding to dollar sale
Euro Advances to Record; Russia May Increase Reserve Holdings
If countries like Japan, China and India follow suit I think we are up for a dollar crisis, if we don't already have one.
Current Bullion Prices
as of: Friday, November 26, 2004 08:16 AM
Metal Current Price Today's High Today's Low Previous Close Net Change
Gold $450.40 $450.60 $449.50 $449.50 $0.90
Silver $7.65 $7.65 $7.62 $7.62 $0.03
Platinum $862.50 $862.50 $860.50 $860.50 $2.00
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hi
it did it,i said it on page one.and guess what , i was right
it made to $450 in less than 30 days
littlejohn
Gold $452.60 $452.90 $449.50 $449.50 $3.10
<< <i>Some are predicting $450 an oz, and maybe up to $500. But no one knows for sure. >>
We had an old Platinum thread resurrected, thought we should have an old gold thread too. I would have never known Longacre was a gold bug.
<< <i>
<< <i>Some are predicting $450 an oz, and maybe up to $500. But no one knows for sure. >>
We had an old Platinum thread resurrected, thought we should have an old gold thread too. I would have never known Longacre was a gold bug.
Thanks RG! Nothing like a quick shocker to start the day
The name is LEE!