Choice Red/Brown or Gem Brown?

ColonialCoinUnion · July 23, 2004 9:47PM

For me theres no question that Choice RB is preferrable for early copper.

I'll always buy an MS62RB or MS63RB before a 65BN or even 66BN - yet the prices suggest that I'm in the minority. Am I?

tjkillian · July 23, 2004 9:51PM

I collect indian cents and would prefer a nice MS-65 or MS-66 in Brown over a MS-62/63 in R/B. So many folks are in love with red copper, I just don't understand it. It is as if a brown one is diseased.

Tom

Bustman · July 23, 2004 10:13PM

I just bought a PCGS 1909-s vdb in 65 brown athe the NY Invitational yesterday. Normally I would not have even looked at the coin, but it had spectacular colors ( blue, violet, red). I could have purchased a very nice 65 red at the show, but I thought the brown was a lot prettier and unique looking for an s-vdb. So for me the coin has to be a bit more than "just" brown.

majorbigtime · July 23, 2004 11:20PM

To me, BR mint state coper run a large spectrum. On the hi-end are coins with traces of red ("just missed" RBs?) and nice, lusterious glossy brown or toned pieces. On the lo-end, there are dull, butt-ugly "lifeless" coins that technically qualify as MS.

I HATE spots on copper or nickel, and generally stay away from these pieces (even though I have a 2-cent piece worth over $20K). Put 'em under a scope, and most are spotted or even lightly corroded. To exacerbate the problem, I beleive they continue to ever-so-slowly deteriorate, and I don't like owning a waisting asset!

XpipedreamR · July 23, 2004 11:24PM

I'll take the higher grade Brown.

RB is such a tease, anyway.

ColonialCoinUnion · July 23, 2004 11:27PM

<< <i>
I HATE spots on copper or nickel, and generally stay away from these pieces (even though I have a 2-cent piece worth over $20K). Put 'em under a scope, and most are spotted or even lightly corroded. To exacerbate the problem, I beleive they continue to ever-so-slowly deteriorate, and I don't like owning a waisting asset! >>

I don't mind a small spot inconspicuous on an original coin - in fact small spots can be an indication of originality.

I agree with you about the slow deterioration of these coins and the inevitable movement of copper from red to brown, which is why I cherish the 300 year old coins that still retain original red. I figure if they haven't lost their red in 3 centuries of potential mishandling and low-tech storage, I have a fighting chance to keep them looking the way they do now in my temperature-controlled, humidity-controlled intercetp shield environment.

BillJones · July 23, 2004 11:30PM

Both R&B and Brown have their merrits.

Recently I've been putting very choice brown coins into my collection. I like the look, and of course the prices are lower.

True original R&B coins can be very attractive. They are fairly stable and are often good values. However some R&B coins have been "worked on" to make them look that way, which is sometimes not good.

I'm one of few people who really detests red copper. I'll get it for collectors if they give me a want list, but I seldom stock it. The stuff costs a fortune, and if it tones or grows a spot, you have either lost money or been denied the profit that you might have made if the coin had not gone bad.

tmot99 · July 23, 2004 11:35PM

To me it all depends on the coin. I have seen some pretty ugly RB coins. A nice even chocolate brown can be very pleasing. Also, on proof IHC, the browns can have such nice toning, multiple colors, etc. On the otherhand, there are some very nice looking RB large cents available.

Russ · July 24, 2004 2:12AM

This is a pretty nice Gem Brown:

Pop 1/0 baby!

Russ, NCNE

jdimmick · July 24, 2004 2:16AM

I like R/B, but I like smooth even red/brown's not streaky or striated RB's.
I like russ's two cent piece, even though its holdered as a brown.

I also think smooth even brown coins with strong original luster are quite nice as well.

jim

Russ · July 24, 2004 2:39AM

<< <i>I like R/B, but I like smooth even red/brown's not streaky or striated RB's. >>

Ditto. I saw an 1870 Two Center recently in MS64RB that was streaky. Even though it's one I need, in the grade range I need, I didn't even consider it. I thought it was butt ugly.

Russ, NCNE

mgoodm3 · July 24, 2004 3:20AM

I'd go higher grade and brown. I love the smooth surfaces of high grade copper.

boiler78 · July 24, 2004 3:27AM

It really depends on the individual coin. I have seen spectacular toned brown copper that puts full red coins to shame then again I've seen brown coins that look like milk chocolate

Heres an example of a "brown" coin that is IMO incredibly attractive PCGS 67 bn

lordmarcovan · July 24, 2004 4:45AM

That might be a tough choice for me at times.

Lakesammman · July 24, 2004 5:19AM

WOW - Boiler, can I have that coin...

Please??

Some of my favorite IHC's have been RB, though I collect mainly red. Go figure. Here are 2 of them, both PCGS 66RB.

jdimmick · July 24, 2004 5:24AM

Those RB's look exceptionally nice.

Also a Brown Indian 64-L that I believe Paul was selling on the bay the other week that was a PCGS-66 Brown or something. That was one of the nicest 64-L's I had ever seen!

Lakesammman · July 24, 2004 5:42AM

jdimmick:

Here is the link to Paul's coin - a real beauty.

Link to 66Br 1864-L

Conder101 · July 24, 2004 7:07AM

I'm one of the few people who really doesn't like red copper and I usually don't like RB either. RB tends to looked mottled to me almost like it is diseased. What I really like is a nice smooth glossy brown. Light, medium, or dark brown, it doesn't matter.

Shamika · July 24, 2004 8:02AM

I have to admit, I would prefer to pick up large cents labeled BROWN with a little red around the devices.

DAM · July 24, 2004 8:33AM

<< <i>I have to admit, I would prefer to pick up large cents labeled BROWN with a little red around the devices. >>

Shamika, you might like some of mine. I started a set (1839 - 1857) which will be a mix of BN and RB. The images aren't the best, from a scanner.

shylock · July 24, 2004 8:59AM

I love Lakesamman's 1872 & 77 66RB IHs (!) but usually prefer the larger surfaces of Large cents and 2-Cent pieces when it comes to deep brown toning. Really early copper, like this BN & RB from the BigMoose/Tom T. collection, looks great no matter what the shade.

Lakesammman · July 24, 2004 9:26AM

Sure loved seeing Mooses' coins in person. Those photos are beautiful! Here is a brown IHC, the 1883 S1 MPD in bust that Shylock and I are alternating ownership of....

It has some purple highlights though primarily brown. The second is the 1873 Cl. 3 S1 DDO in PCGS 65RB, a bit more brown than red but evenly,. attractively tones.

Nic · July 24, 2004 11:06AM

In the early series, I prefer the non-oiled higher grade browns.I love original tan. Like this. K

BigMoose · July 25, 2004 9:45PM

My top four criteria when looking at an early date large cent are luster, color, surfaces and strike in that order. An 18th century copper coin with full luster is a wonderful thing to behold., and much more scarce than many realize.
With proof indian cents, I look for color, mirror depth coming through the color, and surfaces. A proof with nice color but poor mirrors doesn't do it for me.

Nic, that is a wonderful 1808!

Choice Red/Brown or Gem Brown?

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