Evidently NGC is better at securing contracts.If anyone believes there is no hanky panky involved they are beyond naive.As far as I'm concerned who cares about the ANA or the PNG.It is also evident they can be bought and sold....paid off to coin a phrase differently.Sorry to be so cynical but does anyone know what PNG stands for ? I heard it was the "Pretty Nice Girls Club".I guess David Hall is just ugly and not a girl.Perhaps that is why he lost the bidding.Who thinks Mark Salzberg is better looking than David Hall ?
<< <i>I never "impuned" anyones integrity, "besmirched" their character, nor did I say a damn thing about DLRC having an agenda You jerk!!!!! All I did was agree with another forum member that responded to DLRC's original post..... >>
Although I replied to, and quoted your post, My comments were directed not only at you, but to the many people who pile on those who are trying to be helpful through attacks, innuendo, conspiracy claims, and outright falsehoods, on a public message board that thousands of people read. DLRC took the chance by trying to answer legitimate questions collectors had, and were run out of here on a rail. And, by the fact that this thread has lived past its natural life, the bashing continues.
<< <i>Just for the record "ANDROID" I would imagine I have spent more dollars in the last year with DLRC than you make in a year...... >>
I'm really not in the mood to compare balance sheets and asset portfolios with you at the present time, but let's just say...Don't flatter yourself.
<< <i>I think you are the one with the agenda here....... Go back and read "all" of the post here "ANDROID", and don't come in on the end of a thread like many do here and make asinine statements with your head up your arse!!! >>
I'll post anywhere and anytime I choose to do so sir, and I'll read as many or as few posts as I like, without permission from you. I'll also take into consideration, when replying to your posts, that I should be respectful to my elders.
<< <i>Besides Android had it comin, and I just couldn't control myself! It's like that when I get attacked by someone with an IQ of 60 like.....nevermind >>
I think it's safe to say that the tenor and tone of many of your posts, reflect on your personality in general, which may or may not be a reflection of your own intelligence quotient. I'll remember this when reading your posts.
We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
I added 2 IKE Dollars to my Proof set this week! Plus I added a 1984-P and 1984-D Roosie, both MS67FB. Also a beautiful 1998-P PR69DCAM American Silver Eagle.
I have a question that may sound OT but perhaps you or someone you know can enlighten me on this... The bidding process for this PNG endorsement: Does that go to a committee within PNG or do the PNG membership get to vote on this? It just seems that this matter should have some sort of democratic process to it...
With all due respect, I hope that someone responds to the question
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Sorry, folks. I don't have the patience to read the whole thread. If anyone else suggested this, feel free to slap me down, but ....
WHY doesn't PNG endorse multiple grading services and collect even more money? In our market, it seems to me that non-exclusive endorsements are worth almost as much as exclusive endorsements. After all, the only value of the endorsement is when the salesman says "Don't just believe me...". And if he can't use that line to sell a coin, he'll find another.
I could easily see the PNG raising more than twice as much money by selling three endorsements instead of one.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Which page (if any) contains the unedited version?? Did anyone save it??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
<< <i>Who cares about Png? From what I can tell thay dont do squat except get free grading from Ngc and collect $$$$$$$ for their endorsement. >>
Yep, that's it. Of course, they will just now start getting that free grading from NGC, it was PCGS up until now. I remember some of the better forum members names coming through for PNG admission. Wonder why they thought so much of it?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>p.s. I'm not exactly sure what was edited from my posting on the CU board, but Mr. Hall contacted me directly and told me that I was not allowed to post the web address of the PNG (www.pngdealers.com) or I would be kicked off. I told him if that was the case, then take it off my post to which he said, "I already did." I really don't understand the animosity surrounding this issue at all. I feel like Rodney King and just want to say, "can't we all get along." I mean really.... >>
A quote from John Feigenbaum across the street. Statement was made in this thread: RESPONSE
<< <i>I didn't know that Jon and Laura started a reward fund. I thought they just offered a reward. Did I miss something? >>
They may not have set out to create a fund (you'd have to ask them), but in any event as people inquired to Jon about adding to the reward, it sort of became one...
<< <i>Can someone please explain to me why the headder of almost every email of this thread is dated 2004??
The first headder from HRH's post-- "Tuesday March 23, 2004 1:52 PM." >>
TDN resurected this ancient thread. I'd like to know what he thinks he will accomplish by this but I'm sure he has his agenda.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned. >>
I would suspect that both the PNG and the ANA respect both NGC and PCGS, otherwise neither company would be encouraged to bid. And I ditto the responses which point out that PCGS 'bought' the endorsements previously, however, now, it's convenient to bash NGC, and I don't think that is very polite. >>
Agreed !!!!
I think a classy thing to do was to say that we are no longer w/ PNG. and say something like we'll continue to provide great servive to our customers.... blah blah blah... you get the idea...
I think PCGS is still the best, but i think Mr. Hall let his emotions get the best of him.
I think a classy thing to do was to say that we are no longer w/ PNG. and say something like we'll continue to provide great servive to our customers.... blah blah blah... you get the idea...
I think PCGS is still the best, but i think Mr. Hall let his emotions get the best of him. >>
Maybe so but those emotions were 5 years ago.
I am curious why TDN bumped this thread, is it time to bid for the PNG or ANA again?
I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
Might have been coincidence. >>
Or
Is it possible after PCGS found out they lost the bid that was their spin?
I truly do not know the back story, but I do love conspiracy theories
I'm guessing that PNG announced the winning bid with cavaet's and then PCGS responded. Again, only surmizing.
Considering they were probably sealed bids, who really knows.
They were sealed bids, right?
Your call out is plausible
I think PCGS was lucky not to win this bid.
TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
from LS
<<One futher comment, Legend Numismatics (alone) is greatly disturbed at how the PNG tried to include our fund with their orginal paltry $2,500.00 reward. Legend is NOT and does not want to be a member of this organization, nor does the reward fund we set up have anything to do with the PNG, nor will we contribute to their fund>>
I'm not a member either for the record..
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
Might have been coincidence. >>
Probably because they did a Price To Win (PTW) analysis which was almost identical to the competition (happens more often than you would think).
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless.
<< <i>TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless. >>
I thought PNG was for the dealers rather than for the collectors. Hopefully, they both have similar goals.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless. >>
I thought PNG was for the dealers rather than for the collectors. Hopefully, they both have similar goals. >>
Let me change my wording to: 'purports to have the collectors' interests at heart'. As in 'on the collectors' side'. As in 'for the collector'.
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless.
Would you also exclude all dealers that sell doctored coins?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I agree with TDN. Andy I think if it's disclosed it's fine. I think the known doctors or the dealers who try to push their product through the TPGs should be outed and thrown out of dealer and collector organizations and lose direct submission privileges to the major TPGs. Give them 3, 5 or 10 warnings but at some point there should be a "death" penalty. If you don't do this, make them sign a waiver that their names will be posted on www.money.org/coindealercrooks and they can't sue.
If the top grading services slab the coin doctor's products, shouldn't they be held just as responsible?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless.
Would you also exclude all dealers that sell doctored coins? >>
Knowingly and willingly to collectors while representing them as original - absolutely.
Comments
i said early on that david hall should hardly be bummed about losing "png" as an endorsement. it's a POSITIVE for pcgs in EVERY WAY.
K S
Evidently NGC is better at securing contracts.If anyone believes there is no hanky panky involved they are beyond naive.As far as I'm concerned who cares about the ANA or the PNG.It is also evident they can be bought and sold....paid off to coin a phrase differently.Sorry to be so cynical but does anyone know what PNG stands for ? I heard it was the "Pretty Nice Girls Club".I guess David Hall is just ugly and not a girl.Perhaps that is why he lost the bidding.Who thinks Mark Salzberg is better looking than David Hall ?
Stewart
sail on storm brewed waters. Arrrrghhhhhh. Darn Parrot pooped on my shoulder
again. Arrrggghhhhh.
Camelot
<< <i>The edited version sounds much more professional.
. >>
Well I guess the secret is out now:
HRH is Gembens!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
How quaint.
<< <i>I never "impuned" anyones integrity, "besmirched" their character, nor did I say a damn thing about DLRC having an agenda You jerk!!!!! All I did was agree with another forum member that responded to DLRC's original post..... >>
Although I replied to, and quoted your post, My comments were directed not only at you, but to the many people who pile on those who are trying to be helpful through attacks, innuendo, conspiracy claims, and outright falsehoods, on a public message board that thousands of people read. DLRC took the chance by trying to answer legitimate questions collectors had, and were run out of here on a rail. And, by the fact that this thread has lived past its natural life, the bashing continues.
<< <i>Just for the record "ANDROID" I would imagine I have spent more dollars in the last year with DLRC than you make in a year...... >>
I'm really not in the mood to compare balance sheets and asset portfolios with you at the present time, but let's just say...Don't flatter yourself.
<< <i>I think you are the one with the agenda here....... Go back and read "all" of the post here "ANDROID", and don't come in on the end of a thread like many do here and make asinine statements with your head up your arse!!!
I'll post anywhere and anytime I choose to do so sir, and I'll read as many or as few posts as I like, without permission from you. I'll also take into consideration, when replying to your posts, that I should be respectful to my elders.
<< <i>Besides Android had it comin, and I just couldn't control myself! It's like that when I get attacked by someone with an IQ of 60 like.....nevermind >>
I think it's safe to say that the tenor and tone of many of your posts, reflect on your personality in general, which may or may not be a reflection of your own intelligence quotient. I'll remember this when reading your posts.
First POTD 9/19/05!!
<< <i>While I have come to personally know and respect Mr. Lawrence(anybody that knows me
knows RESPECT and TRUST do not come easily to me) he knows just as sure as he is reading
these words which product butters his bread! AND IT AIN'T NGC ! >>
So tell me, what is it like to buddy around with a guy who has been deceased for several years??
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
I added 2 IKE Dollars to my Proof set this week!
Plus I added a 1984-P and 1984-D Roosie, both MS67FB.
Also a beautiful 1998-P PR69DCAM American Silver Eagle.
They all make me smile! SEE--->
Have a nice day everyone!
Paul B. Gunsallus
Later, Paul.
I have a question that may sound OT but perhaps you or someone you know can enlighten me on this... The bidding process for this PNG endorsement: Does that go to a committee within PNG or do the PNG membership get to vote on this? It just seems that this matter should have some sort of democratic process to it...
With all due respect, I hope that someone responds to the question
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
WHY doesn't PNG endorse multiple grading services and collect even more money? In our market, it seems to me that non-exclusive endorsements are worth almost as much as exclusive endorsements. After all, the only value of the endorsement is when the salesman says "Don't just believe me...". And if he can't use that line to sell a coin, he'll find another.
I could easily see the PNG raising more than twice as much money by selling three endorsements instead of one.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Who cares about Png? From what I can tell thay dont do squat except get free grading from Ngc and collect $$$$$$$ for their endorsement. >>
Yep, that's it. Of course, they will just now start getting that free grading from NGC, it was PCGS up until now. I remember some of the better forum members names coming through for PNG admission. Wonder why they thought so much of it?
Im just a tired old PCGS Bear I guess.
Camelot
Be careful now, we bears do our best eaten during huntin season.
Something about those silly hats you all wear and those red vests
seems to make us rather hongry.
Camelot
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
cohodk - Sounds like you're proud of being a serial killer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>p.s. I'm not exactly sure what was edited from my posting on the CU board, but Mr. Hall contacted me directly and told me that I was not allowed to post the web address of the PNG (www.pngdealers.com) or I would be kicked off. I told him if that was the case, then take it off my post to which he said, "I already did." I really don't understand the animosity surrounding this issue at all. I feel like Rodney King and just want to say, "can't we all get along." I mean really.... >>
A quote from John Feigenbaum across the street. Statement was made in this thread:
RESPONSE
The next on my list will be a Grizzly.
BigE,
I'll be careful on the trees, besides they dont taste too good.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.
Always looking for nice type coins
my local dealer
I still think that nothing is going to top their glomming of Jon and Laura's reward fund for Julian.
The first headder from HRH's post-- "Tuesday March 23, 2004 1:52 PM."
I didn't know that Jon and Laura started a reward fund. I thought they just offered a reward. Did I miss something?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I didn't know that Jon and Laura started a reward fund. I thought they just offered a reward. Did I miss something? >>
They may not have set out to create a fund (you'd have to ask them), but in any event as people inquired to Jon about adding to the reward, it sort of became one...
<< <i>Can someone please explain to me why the headder of almost every email of this thread is dated 2004??
The first headder from HRH's post-- "Tuesday March 23, 2004 1:52 PM." >>
TDN resurected this ancient thread. I'd like to know what he thinks he will accomplish by this but I'm sure he has his agenda.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The bottom line is that an endorsement can be bought. Respect and value in the marketplace must be earned. >>
I would suspect that both the PNG and the ANA respect both NGC and PCGS, otherwise neither company would be encouraged to bid.
And I ditto the responses which point out that PCGS 'bought' the endorsements previously, however, now, it's convenient to bash NGC, and I don't think that is very polite. >>
Agreed !!!!
I think a classy thing to do was to say that we are no longer w/ PNG. and say something like we'll continue to provide great servive to our customers.... blah blah blah... you get the idea...
I think PCGS is still the best, but i think Mr. Hall let his emotions get the best of him.
<< <i>
Agreed !!!!
I think a classy thing to do was to say that we are no longer w/ PNG. and say something like we'll continue to provide great servive to our customers.... blah blah blah... you get the idea...
I think PCGS is still the best, but i think Mr. Hall let his emotions get the best of him. >>
Maybe so but those emotions were 5 years ago.
I am curious why TDN bumped this thread, is it time to bid for the PNG or ANA again?
Might have been coincidence.
<< <i>How come I opened this thread and it tried to give me a cookie from johnkerry.com?
You are targeted.
<< <i>
<< <i>Can someone please explain to me why the headder of almost every email of this thread is dated 2004??
The first headder from HRH's post-- "Tuesday March 23, 2004 1:52 PM." >>
TDN resurected this ancient thread. I'd like to know what he thinks he will accomplish by this but I'm sure he has his agenda. >>
Sorry, I'm a bit slow tonight. So all this is in fact 5 1/2 years old?!?
These guys sort of come to mind...
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
Might have been coincidence. >>
I love conspiracy theories! Good job, TDN.
Lance.
<< <i>Might have been coincidence. >>
As you infer, I sincerely doubt it.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
<< <i>I like the fact the OP spoke his mind regardless of the PC police. >>
Do you know who the OP is "homerunhall"
BTW, you need to stack a few of those cents, you sig line is expanding the screen.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
Might have been coincidence. >>
Or
Is it possible after PCGS found out they lost the bid that was their spin?
I truly do not know the back story, but I do love conspiracy theories
I'm guessing that PNG announced the winning bid with cavaet's and then PCGS responded. Again, only surmizing.
Considering they were probably sealed bids, who really knows.
They were sealed bids, right?
Your call out is plausible
I think PCGS was lucky not to win this bid.
TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
from LS
<<One futher comment, Legend Numismatics (alone) is greatly disturbed at how the PNG tried to include our fund with their orginal paltry $2,500.00 reward. Legend is NOT and does not want to be a member of this organization, nor does the reward fund we set up have anything to do with the PNG, nor will we contribute to their fund>>
I'm not a member either for the record..
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I bumped it because I was quite taken aback today by the clever phrasing in the PNG's press release regarding the reward fund. It got me wondering [again] how NGC managed to have the exact same format as PCGS's bid for the PNG's endorsement and how they ended up pretty much exactly $20k higher on the cash and $20k higher on the submissions. On a blind bid with no preset format.
Might have been coincidence. >>
Probably because they did a Price To Win (PTW) analysis which was almost identical to the competition (happens more often than you would think).
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless.
<< <i>TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless. >>
I thought PNG was for the dealers rather than for the collectors. Hopefully, they both have similar goals.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>TDN, is it just Laura's position or all of Legend's owners positions to have a negative bias towards PNG?
My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless. >>
I thought PNG was for the dealers rather than for the collectors. Hopefully, they both have similar goals. >>
Let me change my wording to: 'purports to have the collectors' interests at heart'. As in 'on the collectors' side'. As in 'for the collector'.
Would you also exclude all dealers that sell doctored coins?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> My personal opinion is that membership in any organization that purports to be for the collector but allows known coin doctors in its ranks is worthless.
Would you also exclude all dealers that sell doctored coins? >>
Knowingly and willingly to collectors while representing them as original - absolutely.
"Knowingly"?
Shouldn't any member that does retail be required to be an expert in recognizing doctored coins?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.