I want to thank Mitch for taking the time to post this while I was at the show. To set the record straight, I will try to give out the facts as best as I can remember as to how this happened. This happened sometime between 10:30 and 11 AM on Wednesday morning in the lot pickup room that Superior and ANR jointly shared. I sat on one side of the table across from Steve Deeds of Superior. There were very few people in the room at the time picking up lots as the first rush was already over by then. I had three separate transactions to complete with Steve as I had my buybacks from the consignment, my purchases from the sale, and the now missing coin, the 1919-S quarter in PCGS 67FH, which I agreed to purchase after the sale as it did not meet the consignors reserve the night before. The first order of business was the large letter sized envelope with the 1919-S quarter was handed to me. It had an invoice stapled to it on the outside which I signed and then set off to the side without opening it to look at the coin. Steve told me my copy of the invoice was inside the envelope. I did feel the envelope to make sure that there was something inside. I felt a slab in it so we went on to the next order of business. Steve then handed me my buybacks from the sale which I then logged in to make sure they were all there. They were in two small boxes. I signed his copy of the invoice and put my copy next to the now missing envelope. We then went over my purchases from the sale and I then signed his copy of that invoice and then wrote Superior a check for the total of the two separate purchase invoices. At this point in time, a dealer friend of mine came in and sat down next to me in front of where I had the envelope and invoices. We had purchased a few coins for a collector under his bidder number and it put him over his credit limit so I wrote out a check to Superior for one of those coins. At this time, I was told that they were about ready for me across the room at the ANR lot pickup table so I packed up the two boxes of consignment return coins along with the rubber banded purchases and went across the room to receive my purchases from the ANR auction. Immediately upon finishing up with ANR, I started off to my hotel room which happens to be on the same floor at the Rosen Plaza where the auction pickup took place. Before making it to my room, it hit me that I had not put the envelope with the 19-S quarter in my bag. Upon a frantic search of the bag to confirm my suspicion, I made a mad dash back to the lot pickup room wating to be chastised by Steve for leaving the envelope on the table. Unfortunately, they knew nothing of the missing envelope. I immediately called my friend who had been sitting next to me at the Superior table and asked him if he had picked up an extra envelope by mistake. After searching his bag he said that did not happen. He also said that when he left the Superior table there were no invoices or envelopes left behind. A mystery to say the least! As I asked Mitch to state, I am offering a $5000 reward for the return of the coin. I will ask no questions as to how anyone came in possession of it. This will not be an easy item for anyone to sell. Even if the coin is dipped, it has a few very distinctive characteristics on it that will not go away. I am hoping that the individual that took this has a change of heart and decides the financial gain is not worth the risk of prosecution that would inevitably take place if this coin shows up a number of months or years from now. When an item such as this is discovered at a later date, it is not difficult to trace it back to the thief. This coin is rare in all high grades unlike an MS68 silver Washington quarter or a 14-S Lincoln in 66RD which will have many coins in the undergrade. An alert was put out to the two major grading services at the show to look out for any high grade, full head 19-S quarter that was sent in. I have also asked PCGS to have the coin removed from the pop report so that if the coin is attempted to be sold without cracking it out, the buyer may question the validity of the insert. A few notes here. This coin was not stolen at a coin show where anyone can walk in from the street. It was taken at the lot pickup room of Superior and ANR auctions where only dealers and collectors that had purchased coins along with the employees of those auction houses were in attendance. Was I negligent in walking away from the table without the envelope and invoices, YES. I was exhausted from the late night auctions and early morning lot viewing that had gone on for quite a few days at that point and made a mistake. That still does not justify what ammounts to a colleague of mine or a collector to pick up something that does not belong to them and walk off with it.
David, you said you were negligent in leaving the envelope on the table when you left for the other side of the room to pick up your ANR items. However, are you absolutely sure that the envelope with the 1919-S SLQ was still on the table at that moment? Or is is possible that you didn't pick it up and put it in with your other 2 boxes of coins because it wasn't on the table by then? Is it possible that someone could have lifted it off the table while you were still seated, completing your transactions with Superior? Also, what happened to the invoices that were next to the envelope? Did you pick them up when you left the table, or were they also missing along with the SLQ?
I'm really sorry this has happened, and I'm asking these questions to maybe help jog your memory for some more details or observations on your part, and also to try to help you get your coin back.
Also, does the room have CCTV cameras?
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
1jester- The two sets of invoices along with the envelope are all missing. I wish I could tell you that I know when everything was grabbed. The only explanation I have for not picking up the envelope and invoices when I left the table is that either my friend's things were on top of them when I left or they were already gone by that time.
Odd that the invoices would be missing as well. One would think an employee picked up the materials left there and put them aside some where for safekeeping. I hope this is the case, though I presume Superior has taken the place apart by now and has asked all their people, with this theory in mind. Incredible that someone would do something that high-profile and risky, even if they had enough slime about them.
I'm terribly sorry, David. I hope it turns up soon, and hope it wasn't a theft.
It is also a bit suprising to me there is no security camera panning the room at such an event. This is truely a terrible thing especially knowing it could be a dealer you know or auction house employee.
I didn't respond further to the thread because I felt it was MS68's right to clearly lay out the facts surrounding his loss.
But, I have a question for MS68 - Is an auction company like Superior insured for mysterious disappearances of the consigned coins to its auction? For example, if the coin was stolen 5 minutes before it was delivered to you at lot pick, is Superior covered for the loss? What if an entire box of coins (or the entire sale for that matter) were stolen from the lot viewing room during lot pick up? MS68 - have you determined whether there is an insurance policy in effect to cover stolen coins involved in the auction? If there is insurance coverage, I understand the next question might be whether the coverage stops as soon as you signed for the coin vs. perhaps whether it only stops as soon as the coin leaves Superior's possession (being possibly defined as the entire lot viewing area?) This all sounds a bit "legal" to me - perhaps Superior has an attorney on staff well versed in Insurance Law who could help you and, of course, the policy of Insurance itself is always a good start to determine what may or may not be covered. Good luck trying to read it though - I remember reading a few that put me right to sleep
I retired from the practice of law nearly 2 years ago - otherwise I would have loved to assist you with this. Good luck with whatever you find out.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
How is it possible that lot pick up is a room without any video survellience? That sounds like negligence on the part of both auction companies. I guess Superior is also an attitude, where they feel they are above common industry security practices.
This is really horrible David, and I really hope that if this coin does not surface that you do not have to bear the loss. It doesn't seem to me that there would be just anyone in that room, just collectors and dealers? Was the invoice that was stapled to the envelope in plain view so anyone could see the invoice amount? Wish I could help and I know what you must be going through. Hope you get sppedy resolution to this is all I can say--------------------BigE
I feel terrible for David. But, it sounds as if some of you guys are being extremely unfair to Superior here.
They don't have video camera surveillance at lot pick up - I know of no auction company that does.
They apparently delivered the lot / coin to their customer / David - it is not their responsibility to make sure that he safely put it away afterwards.
David has taken responsibility for what happened and has been a man about it, not pointing the finger at Superior. If he, having been there and being more aware of the facts than any of us doesn't blame them, why should someone else do so?
Take your outrage out on the unknown thief, not on the auction company that apparently fulfilled their part of the transaction in delivering the coin to the buyer.
David, if you haven't already done so, I'd recommend getting an alert out to the major grading companies, auction houses and the PNG, as well as asking CCE and Eureka to inform all of their member dealers. I hope something good happens.
They apparently delivered the lot / coin to their customer / David - it is not their responsibility to make sure that he safely put it away afterwards.
Nonetheless, my last comment pertains to whether there is insurance in effect to cover a mysterious loss which took place in the lot pick up room (either 5 minutes before, or 5 minutes after a coin was handed to a customer). If there is (big, big "if"), I would think Superior would be the first out there to jump in and assist David with the loss. So, my comment was directed more at "dotting every i and crossing every t". Sometimes, one would be surprised at what insurance policies do actually cover. And, if this is not one of those circumstances, that would not surprise me either. Superior will help David with getting this answered - no doubt.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
BigE- The envelope that was taken was a blank letter sized manilla envelope. I am also missing the other two invoices from my buy backs and my purchases during the sale. The invoice with the buybacks is composed of three pieces of paper stapled together. The other purchase invoice is one piece of paper. I was told the invoice for the missing 1919-S PCGS MS67FH quarter was inside the envelope. I cannot confirm this as I never got a chance to open the envelope and examine the coin and invoice.
Do you know who picked uo auction lots at Superior right after you? You certainly weren't the last one to pick up auction lots.There is always security in the room.Do you know who was in the room?
Stewart- I have asked for the information on who picked up lots for the ten minute period of time from when I walked away from the table and came franticly running back looking for the envelope. As of yet , I have not received any names. Hopefully that list will be shortly forthcoming. ps- "Mr Schweitz" Geez, you pick up a chair and threaten someone and they decide to get formal.
Dave - I was being facetious as well as sarcastic but wanted to show others how sympathetic I am to your dilemma.When you picked up the chair I rather enjoyed the show.I have been thinking of follow ups at the next auction.
I hope this thread doesn't cause the (idiot) thief to "hold" the coin, and I wish you the ultimate best of luck in retreival of your (stupidly) stolen asset.
If the thief reads this forum - which I would assume they it does - then of course they will hold it unless they have disreputable friends as well. Anbody wonder if this specific coins was targeted.
Just trying to be objective here. I can't imagine someone stalking the 1919/s and by happenstance Dave leaves it on the table in an envelope not marked as the 1919/s, and that person has the good fortune of picking up the envelope. My first impulse is that someone picked it up erroneously.
1. If it was a Superior employee, they could have put it in the lots going back home to be mailed out or returned to the consignor, by accident. If the employee intended on secreting it out later, it would have been very difficult after Dave returned to the room 10 minutes later desperately looking for the coin.
2. If it was someone else there to pick up a lot, they could have accidently picked it up and either (a) decided to keep it, or (b) is now scared sh!tless because if they return it, they could be accused of stealing it. If I was in the later position, I think I would hold it until I went out of town again, and then mail it to Dave from another location.
I have a missing coin from one of my registry sets right now that I bought about six months ago. I am wondering if I received the wrong coin from the seller, misplaced the coin and it is somewhere here in my house, or if someone stole the coin. I decided to leave it in my registry set so that if someone tries to register it, I will find out about it. This coin is a modern PR70DC so it would probably not be worth taking a chance on cracking it out. Hopefully, I have misplaced it somewhere around my house.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD AND HAVE THIS COIN, PLEASE MAIL IT TO DAVE, SUPERIOR, NGC, or PCGS. IF YOU FEAR PROSECUTION, CONTACT AN ATTORNEY WHO CAN NEGOTIATE THE RETURN OF THE COIN. AN ATTORNEY WOULD BE PREVENTED BY LAW FROM REVEALING YOUR IDENTITY.
sorry to be a wet blanket, & my condolences to mr. schweitz, but if the thief was clever enough to steal that coin that way, he's plenty clever enough to wait for the statute of limitations to run out on that coin. i'm afraid my prediction is that the thief has no consicence, but isn't stupid either, & you'll never see the coin again, at least not for another 20 yrs or so.
I want to first thank everyone that has contacted me and posted here . The overflowing good will has really lifted my spirits in this trying time for me. I want to reiterate my offer to make it clear that the return of the coin has a "no questions asked" $5000 reward. I will obviously attempt no presecution whatsoever of the individual that took the item. For that I give my word.
I want to reiterate my offer to make it clear that the return of the coin has a "no questions asked" $5000 reward. I will obviously attempt no presecution whatsoever of the individual that took the item. For that I give my word
And believe me David Schweitz is a man of his word.
A collector of high grade TONED BUFFALO NICKELS ,working on a PCGS REGISTRY SET.
I may be going over to Superior tomorrow. I may ask to poke around a bit. Who knows - I may be able to make $5,000 tomorrow if the coin was accidently misplaced and I find it over there If I do, I'll put the cash up and hold a grading contest at Long Beach - winner take all. I'll allow MS68 to enter the contest and give him a (good) chance to win his money back!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Do not fall into the error of the artisan who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft while in fact he has had only one year of experience... twenty times.
could be that the person (or one after that) who sat in your chair - picked it all up thinking it was his, and is now keeping it. That is why it is important to find out who came in after you. Haven't heard - does anyone have any insurance that is going to cover this? Good luck.
Most likely it will surface, eventually. Coins like that don't go unnoticed, when they're finally brought to market. Consider the du Pont coins as an example. As other's have stated, that coin certainly is recognizable from previously taken images.
I hope people are still keeping this in mind, and it turns up. I mentioned it to some dealers this weekend. They had been at the FUN show, but surpising to me, they know little about it, or even what was missing.
Trying to keep this thread in the forefront ...everyone should be aware that this happened... anyone offered a gem 1919-S - raw (cracked out of its PCGS 67FH holder) - should be wary, and compare the offered coin to the missing coin. I have forwarded this coin's image to alot of friends so that they can keep their eyes open. I hope the coin surfaces soon.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Yes, that was my statement. I think that the fact that the coin showed up unharmed is a good clue in itself. My guess would be that a common street thief wouldn't know how nor would care about carefully handling such a coin. I think the coin showing up outside the holder without harm implies the thief was in some way connected to the business/ hobby (dealer/collector).
Comments
This happened sometime between 10:30 and 11 AM on Wednesday morning in the lot pickup room that Superior and ANR jointly shared. I sat on one side of the table across from Steve Deeds of Superior. There were very few people in the room at the time picking up lots as the first rush was already over by then. I had three separate transactions to complete with Steve as I had my buybacks from the consignment, my purchases from the sale, and the now missing coin, the 1919-S quarter in PCGS 67FH, which I agreed to purchase after the sale as it did not meet the consignors reserve the night before. The first order of business was the large letter sized envelope with the 1919-S quarter was handed to me. It had an invoice stapled to it on the outside which I signed and then set off to the side without opening it to look at the coin. Steve told me my copy of the invoice was inside the envelope. I did feel the envelope to make sure that there was something inside. I felt a slab in it so we went on to the next order of business. Steve then handed me my buybacks from the sale which I then logged in to make sure they were all there. They were in two small boxes. I signed his copy of the invoice and put my copy next to the now missing envelope. We then went over my purchases from the sale and I then signed his copy of that invoice and then wrote Superior a check for the total of the two separate purchase invoices. At this point in time, a dealer friend of mine came in and sat down next to me in front of where I had the envelope and invoices. We had purchased a few coins for a collector under his bidder number and it put him over his credit limit so I wrote out a check to Superior for one of those coins. At this time, I was told that they were about ready for me across the room at the ANR lot pickup table so I packed up the two boxes of consignment return coins along with the rubber banded purchases and went across the room to receive my purchases from the ANR auction. Immediately upon finishing up with ANR, I started off to my hotel room which happens to be on the same floor at the Rosen Plaza where the auction pickup took place. Before making it to my room, it hit me that I had not put the envelope with the 19-S quarter in my bag. Upon a frantic search of the bag to confirm my suspicion, I made a mad dash back to the lot pickup room wating to be chastised by Steve for leaving the envelope on the table. Unfortunately, they knew nothing of the missing envelope. I immediately called my friend who had been sitting next to me at the Superior table and asked him if he had picked up an extra envelope by mistake. After searching his bag he said that did not happen. He also said that when he left the Superior table there were no invoices or envelopes left behind. A mystery to say the least!
As I asked Mitch to state, I am offering a $5000 reward for the return of the coin. I will ask no questions as to how anyone came in possession of it. This will not be an easy item for anyone to sell. Even if the coin is dipped, it has a few very distinctive characteristics on it that will not go away. I am hoping that the individual that took this has a change of heart and decides the financial gain is not worth the risk of prosecution that would inevitably take place if this coin shows up a number of months or years from now. When an item such as this is discovered at a later date, it is not difficult to trace it back to the thief. This coin is rare in all high grades unlike an MS68 silver Washington quarter or a 14-S Lincoln in 66RD which will have many coins in the undergrade. An alert was put out to the two major grading services at the show to look out for any high grade, full head 19-S quarter that was sent in. I have also asked PCGS to have the coin removed from the pop report so that if the coin is attempted to be sold without cracking it out, the buyer may question the validity of the insert.
A few notes here. This coin was not stolen at a coin show where anyone can walk in from the street. It was taken at the lot pickup room of Superior and ANR auctions where only dealers and collectors that had purchased coins along with the employees of those auction houses were in attendance. Was I negligent in walking away from the table without the envelope and invoices, YES. I was exhausted from the late night auctions and early morning lot viewing that had gone on for quite a few days at that point and made a mistake. That still does not justify what ammounts to a colleague of mine or a collector to pick up something that does not belong to them and walk off with it.
I'm really sorry this has happened, and I'm asking these questions to maybe help jog your memory for some more details or observations on your part, and also to try to help you get your coin back.
Also, does the room have CCTV cameras?
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
I'm terribly sorry, David. I hope it turns up soon, and hope it wasn't a theft.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Man oh man, this sounds worse by the minute. I can't believe someone would be foolish enough to steal a coin like that.
But, I have a question for MS68 - Is an auction company like Superior insured for mysterious disappearances of the consigned coins to its auction? For example, if the coin was stolen 5 minutes before it was delivered to you at lot pick, is Superior covered for the loss? What if an entire box of coins (or the entire sale for that matter) were stolen from the lot viewing room during lot pick up? MS68 - have you determined whether there is an insurance policy in effect to cover stolen coins involved in the auction? If there is insurance coverage, I understand the next question might be whether the coverage stops as soon as you signed for the coin vs. perhaps whether it only stops as soon as the coin leaves Superior's possession (being possibly defined as the entire lot viewing area?) This all sounds a bit "legal" to me - perhaps Superior has an attorney on staff well versed in Insurance Law who could help you and, of course, the policy of Insurance itself is always a good start to determine what may or may not be covered. Good luck trying to read it though - I remember reading a few that put me right to sleep
I retired from the practice of law nearly 2 years ago - otherwise I would have loved to assist you with this. Good luck with whatever you find out.
Wondercoin
They don't have video camera surveillance at lot pick up - I know of no auction company that does.
They apparently delivered the lot / coin to their customer / David - it is not their responsibility to make sure that he safely put it away afterwards.
David has taken responsibility for what happened and has been a man about it, not pointing the finger at Superior. If he, having been there and being more aware of the facts than any of us doesn't blame them, why should someone else do so?
Take your outrage out on the unknown thief, not on the auction company that apparently fulfilled their part of the transaction in delivering the coin to the buyer.
David, if you haven't already done so, I'd recommend getting an alert out to the major grading companies, auction houses and the PNG, as well as asking CCE and Eureka to inform all of their member dealers. I hope something good happens.
Nonetheless, my last comment pertains to whether there is insurance in effect to cover a mysterious loss which took place in the lot pick up room (either 5 minutes before, or 5 minutes after a coin was handed to a customer). If there is (big, big "if"), I would think Superior would be the first out there to jump in and assist David with the loss. So, my comment was directed more at "dotting every i and crossing every t". Sometimes, one would be surprised at what insurance policies do actually cover. And, if this is not one of those circumstances, that would not surprise me either. Superior will help David with getting this answered - no doubt.
Wondercoin
Do you know who picked uo auction lots at Superior right after you? You certainly weren't the last one to pick up auction lots.There is always security in the room.Do you know who was in the room?
Stewart
Superior *should* have a record of this. They would be the main ones to be able to follow up and assist in solving this "case".
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
ps- "Mr Schweitz" Geez, you pick up a chair and threaten someone and they decide to get formal.
Stewart
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
and I wish you the ultimate best of luck in retreival of your (stupidly) stolen asset.
<< <i>I feel for you and hope the coin surfaces ... I hope Rick M. and David H. are making this thread required reading by graders ... >>
It could become a PCI MS70FH too.
Just trying to be objective here. I can't imagine someone stalking the 1919/s and by happenstance Dave leaves it on the table in an envelope not marked as the 1919/s, and that person has the good fortune of picking up the envelope. My first impulse is that someone picked it up erroneously.
1. If it was a Superior employee, they could have put it in the lots going back home to be mailed out or returned to the consignor, by accident. If the employee intended on secreting it out later, it would have been very difficult after Dave returned to the room 10 minutes later desperately looking for the coin.
2. If it was someone else there to pick up a lot, they could have accidently picked it up and either (a) decided to keep it, or (b) is now scared sh!tless because if they return it, they could be accused of stealing it. If I was in the later position, I think I would hold it until I went out of town again, and then mail it to Dave from another location.
I have a missing coin from one of my registry sets right now that I bought about six months ago. I am wondering if I received the wrong coin from the seller, misplaced the coin and it is somewhere here in my house, or if someone stole the coin. I decided to leave it in my registry set so that if someone tries to register it, I will find out about it. This coin is a modern PR70DC so it would probably not be worth taking a chance on cracking it out. Hopefully, I have misplaced it somewhere around my house.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS THREAD AND HAVE THIS COIN, PLEASE MAIL IT TO DAVE, SUPERIOR, NGC, or PCGS. IF YOU FEAR PROSECUTION, CONTACT AN ATTORNEY WHO CAN NEGOTIATE THE RETURN OF THE COIN. AN ATTORNEY WOULD BE PREVENTED BY LAW FROM REVEALING YOUR IDENTITY.
(& no i'm not the thief
K S
You are doing well, subject 15837. You are a good person.
I want to reiterate my offer to make it clear that the return of the coin has a "no questions asked" $5000 reward. I will obviously attempt no presecution whatsoever of the individual that took the item. For that I give my word.
And believe me David Schweitz is a man of his word.
I may be going over to Superior tomorrow. I may ask to poke around a bit. Who knows - I may be able to make $5,000 tomorrow if the coin was accidently misplaced and I find it over there
Wondercoin
Pocket the 80G coin imediately after buying it. Don't wait for anything.
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
That "Stolen Coin Registry" idea would be pretty handy right about now.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Sorry to hear of your loss. I hope you find the coin.
GrandAm
Gary D Hoop
I keep looking at this thread hoping it will say the coin has been returned to its rightful owner.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Sorry to hear of your loss.....I sure hope this was a mistake
on someone's part and the coin surfaces soon.....
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Russ,
Exactly. If this coin is cracked out, it's all over. Unfortunately, the only way it can really be sold is outside the holder. >>
Oh...really?
XpipedreamR,
Yes, that was my statement. I think that the fact that the coin showed up unharmed is a good clue in itself. My guess would be that a common street thief wouldn't know how nor would care about carefully handling such a coin. I think the coin showing up outside the holder without harm implies the thief was in some way connected to the business/ hobby (dealer/collector).
I am very happy the coin showed up unharmed.
Jack