Prices of PCGS Slabbed Coins vs. the Competition

dollardude · September 27, 2003 3:59PM

I was just wondering if anyone thinks that it is wise to purchase non-PCGS slabs to save a substantial amount of money. I, like most people, prefer PCGS, but is the price premium worth it? As an example, I just purchased the key date 1993 silver eagle in an NGC MS69 holder for a mere $45. The same coin in the same grade in a PCGS slab sells for around $110. My NGC graded coin looks just as good or better than the same one in a PCGS slab, and I spent less than half as much. This is probably an extreme example, but with other coin series, there is still a substantial price difference.

numobri · September 27, 2003 4:05PM

It seem to me that,for the fee,if it will cross,go for it.I would,good luck.

FanOfModerns · September 27, 2003 4:18PM

No. Only buy PCGS coins. They are the only ones that have value. If a coin were as good as the others say it is then it would be in a PCGS slab.

Buying non PCGS coins is just throwing your money away.

islemangu · September 27, 2003 4:20PM

Yes, most definitely worth the premium

..... but keep this really quiet shuuuuuuu

dont bring up fbl Frankies

AmericanSilverEagleCoins · September 27, 2003 4:42PM

Why wouldn't you buy a NGC coin in the same condition for less money? The premiums only matters when you sell. Just get them cheaper and cross them into PCGS holders when you are ready to sell. Besides, you should focus on buying the coin, not the plastic around it.

jhar · September 27, 2003 9:10PM

You have to look at each coin, but IMO generally, a coin in a NGC holder is just as nice as the PCGS Holder.

MadMarty · September 27, 2003 11:01PM

<< No. Only buy PCGS coins. They are the only ones that have value. If a coin were as good as the others say it is then it would be in a PCGS slab.

Buying non PCGS coins is just throwing your money away. >>

pleeeeeeeease, buy the coin, not the holder!!!

jdimmick · September 28, 2003 2:17AM

As far as your question regarding bullion coins, I have no Idea.

As far as key-dates, first buy the coin for its merits.

But when it comes time to sell, usually a PCGS graded coin will bring stronger money.
jim

291fifth · September 28, 2003 3:42AM

PCGS is currently the market favorite. That can change. Remember that for a few years in the late 1980's NGC was the market favorite. ANACS seems to be making a major push to gain ground on PCGS and NGC. The other services seem to be going in the opposite direction by catering to large on-line auction sellers.

Russ · September 28, 2003 3:44AM

<< My NGC graded coin looks just as good or better than the same one in a PCGS slab, and I spent less than half as much. >>

I would say that makes you a smart shopper.

Russ, NCNE

puff · September 28, 2003 4:28AM

<< PCGS is currently the market favorite. That can change. Remember that for a few years in the late 1980's NGC was the market favorite. ANACS seems to be making a major push to gain ground on PCGS and NGC. The other services seem to be going in the opposite direction by catering to large on-line auction sellers. >>

Your kidding....right?

DHeath · September 28, 2003 4:32AM

Without rehashing a topic that's been discussed to death, buy the coin. A PCGS holder is only a few bucks if you feel like putting your coin in one.

Android · September 28, 2003 4:48AM

<< No. Only buy PCGS coins. They are the only ones that have value. If a coin were as good as the others say it is then it would be in a PCGS slab.

Buying non PCGS coins is just throwing your money away. >>

Please, if you are going to post advice, please make it constructive.

ElectricEye · September 28, 2003 5:00AM

"buy the coin, not the slab" ~ you'll see anywhere from dogs to pq's in any companies slabs ~ PCGS is the most reliable, but there is nothing wrong with buying the other brands sight seen ~ carefully consider buying any slab sight unseen...

Typetone · September 28, 2003 5:08AM

I would say to learn the market for NGC graded coins. Then determine the value you are receiving when you buy an NGC coin. In your example, if most NGC pieces sell for $25 then I would say you're deal wasn't that good. If they usually sell for $65, I'd say you got a great deal. Don't expect your NGC coins to cross to PCGS holders. If they do great, but don't expect it. Learn the market for what you are buying.

It's great to say buy the coin and not the holder, but the market pays for the holder as well as the coin. If you are buying a lesser holder, make sure you are paying the correct lessor price.

Greg

BillJones · September 28, 2003 5:18AM

The only area of the market where PCGS clearly is superior is for ultra high grade modern coins. I think that the PCGS Registry, where only PCGS coins can be listed, has a lot to do with that. NGC also shot itself in the foot by assigning some “injudicious” grades to many modern coins early in the game (circa 2000). I’ve read some posts that claim that NGC has tightened their standards of late. That’s not to say the PCGS gets it right 100% of the time for modern coins. They are just in the best market position.

As for everything else, smart people buy the coin, not the holder. I’ve sold PCGS coins to dealers at premium prices and I’ve sold NGC coins at premium prices. I’ve seen coins in both holders for which I would not have paid Blue Sheet “bid.”

Buying ONLY one brand because you think it is “best”, “always right” and “always worth a premium” is a spurious approach to buying coins. It’s a good way to over pay and perhaps get burned in the long run.

my3cents · September 28, 2003 5:19AM

Part of the reason that PCGS holders have a higher value is the time you have to wait to get your coins back.

If you are planning on crossing, then selling, you'd best plan on 3 months turn around time for PCGS economy service. Or---- you could skip the wait and the fees and just buy the coin in a PCGS holder to start with

ElmerFusterpuck · September 28, 2003 5:24AM

Go ahead and just buy PCGS stuff than; leaves more for me to look at. I managed to get a gold PCI 1911-S $5 gold in MS-62 for about $400 about a year ago. Looked great to me, crossed it over at Long Beach hoping for a 63, but came back a PCGS 62. No loss here.

Buy the coin!

paigowjohnny · September 28, 2003 5:29AM

Geez...open this discussion across the street and you'll get the same posts with NGC and PCGS swapped in position in the post.

Shamika · September 28, 2003 5:34AM

For the most part, you get what you pay for. Or to put it another way, you'll get back what you paid for.

Whether of not PCGS coins are better than the competition will be argued endlessly. But few people can argue that collectors are willing to pay more for PCGS coins. If you buy a coin housed in a less expensive slab, you'll get less money when it comes time to sell.

The best wisdom of all is to learn (and learn well) how to grade coins. You may find that PCGS coins are better graded than the competition (or not). Either way, you'll buy the coin that makes you happiest and you just might find a great deal in end.

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 5:43AM

<< You have to look at each coin, but IMO generally, a coin in a NGC holder is just as nice as the PCGS Holder. >>

If that were true, PCGS would not command more money! I have a problem with the word GENERALLY, the more appropriate word would be SOMETIMES!

elwood · September 28, 2003 5:44AM

Fanofmoderns

It's obvious from the advice you've given that you are not very knowlegable about coin collecting.
To say that no coin has value if not in a PCGS slab. Give Me A Break!!!
I sold a 1797 Half in an NGC slab for $50,000.00 a year ago. I would say that coin had considerable value. It recently sold for $75,000.00. It actually increased in value while in an NGC slab. Imagine that.

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 5:47AM

I wonder how much that 1797 would have went for in a PCGS slab?

DCAMFranklin · September 28, 2003 5:55AM

I've seen plenty of PCGS MS-69 Silver Eagles that belong in a MS-67 holder. They are obviously the result of a large, bulk submission and would never cross to another services' MS-69 holder. As others have said, buy the coin and not the holder.

dollardude · September 28, 2003 6:23AM

Wow, I really stirred the pot on this one! I think I struck a nerve!

Russ · September 28, 2003 6:32AM

<< NGC also shot itself in the foot by assigning some “injudicious” grades to many modern coins early in the game (circa 2000). >>

Bill,

The irony of the current market in moderns is that PCGS did EXACTLY the same thing. Anybody who has looked at enough PR70DCAMs graded from that era will tell you that PCGS was pumping them out based on what the competition was doing, not on the merits of the coins. Somehow, though, the market has not punished them for that debacle as it has NGC.

Russ, NCNE

dollardude · September 28, 2003 6:38AM

My local dealer told us at a coin club meeting recently that PCGS did, in fact, overgrade many modern coins, as has been mentioned in this thread several times. So, in a few modern coin cases, PCGS may not be worth the premium.

AmericanSilverEagleCoins · September 28, 2003 6:40AM

Anyone who limits their collection to only one kind of slab is not collecting coins but collecting slabs. That would be the same brainwashed mind as those who believe GM is the only auto company who can build a good car, that their political party can do no wrong, or that the NY Yankees are the greatest baseball team in the world. In reality there are plenty of good cars by all makes, both political parties have good and bad ideas and the Yankees have not won the world series every year!!

braddick · September 28, 2003 6:44AM

PCGS's debacle with the PR70 craze was short lived and didn't branch out to Mint State coins. PCGS also has a policy in play that allows the return of PR70's that don't meet the Standard for swift correction/refund. I've seen this happen with three of the PR70 Clad Ikes so far (and have heard of others).

NGC, God bless them, allowed (and is still doing so) the PR70 error to also poison the MS70 Market. NGC is a bit slower on the draw also to correct their mistakes, generally agreeing upon a second evaluation the coins meets the criteria for the grade.

Russ · September 28, 2003 6:49AM

<< That would be the same brainwashed mind as those who believe GM is the only auto company who can build a good car, that their political party can do no wrong, or that the NY Yankees are the greatest baseball team in the world. >>

They aren't, but they're sure as hell better than the Mariners.

Russ, NCNE

puff · September 28, 2003 6:54AM

Buying ONLY one brand because you think it is “best”, “always right” and “always worth a premium” is a spurious approach to buying coins. It’s a good way to over pay and perhaps get burned in the long run. >>

Good point Bill!

puff · September 28, 2003 6:58AM

<< I wonder how much that 1797 would have went for in a PCGS slab? >>

Excellent point "Wallstreetman"!!!!

eagle7 · September 28, 2003 7:12AM

If you buy, sell and trade coins because you are a coin nut(like me) or if you are a dealer, I think it is wise to consider the top plastic holders as a tool. As such you had better learn how to use the tools to maximize your trading, selling and buying of coins. Yes this is about coins, not plastic. Learn how to grade first, then learn how to use the tools(the plastic). There are a lot of things involved here. Different series of coins, different serial numbers on the plastic and the actual eye appeal of the coin involved, just to name a few. I feel more comfortable in having my coins in PCGS in order to sell, but I will buy in any holder if I can closely inspect the coin before hand. The school of hard knocks is a great teacher if you will learn from your experiences by placing the blame on yourself instead of the coin slabbing companies. My main interest is in Gold and Morgan Dollars. Just a few observations on those. Gold will cross from NGC to PCGS if you watch carefully for hairlines. PCGS HATES hairlines. So do I. Morgans will seldom if ever cross. NGC coins with serial numbers greater than 1,600,000 will be much easier to cross and will seldom if ever have a hairlining problem(gold). The earliest numbers on NGC (less than 200,000) are usually good. THose in between are a problem if not carefully inspected. And yes, you can get bad coins in early PCGS holders. Look at those carefully!

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 7:15AM

Bill,

The irony of the current market in moderns is that PCGS did EXACTLY the same thing. Anybody who has looked at enough PR70DCAMs graded from that era will tell you that PCGS was pumping them out based on what the competition was doing, not on the merits of the coins. Somehow, though, the market has not punished them for that debacle as it has NGC.

Russ, NCNE >>

Maybe because there are more NGC 70s! Doesnt take a Rocket Scientist to figure that one out!

FanOfModerns · September 28, 2003 7:17AM

<< I wonder how much that 1797 would have went for in a PCGS slab? >>

It probably couldn't make it into a PCGS slab because of some problem. That is why it was in a NGC slab.

We all know that PCGS coins are worth the most so if it is in a different slab there is a reason for that.

Russ · September 28, 2003 7:22AM

That was a quick switch, there WSM. You must have a phone booth nearby.

Russ, NCNE

ksteelheader · September 28, 2003 7:24AM

FOM, could you please tell us what substance you take or smoke? Some of us would like to feel good also...Thanks, Ken

Russ · September 28, 2003 7:32AM

<< Maybe because there are more NGC 70s! Doesnt take a Rocket Scientist to figure that one out! >>

WSM,

Really? Let's do a little comparison in Kennedy Halves for PR70:

1978-S
PCGS - 58
NGC - 0

1979-S Ty1
PCGS - 66
NGC - 6

1979-S Ty2
PCGS - 39
NGC - 0

1980-S
PCGS - 51
NGC - 4

1981-S Ty1
PCGS - 63
NGC - 0

1981-S Ty2
PCGS - 24
NGC - 0

1982-S
PCGS - 70
NGC - 2

1983-S
PCGS - 128
NGC - 2

1984-S
PCGS - 66
NGC - 0

1985-S
PCGS - 54
NGC - 1

I could go on and on, but I'm tired of typing. Oh, and my apologies for confusing you with facts.

Russ, NCNE

Bear · September 28, 2003 7:34AM

Just a few opinions by a little old bear.

1. Yes there are times that a NGC coin is every bit as nice as a PCGS coin and at a lower price.

2. By and large, PCGS adheres to a tighter set of standards.Perhaps 1/2 to l point tighter then NGC.

3. Generally the NGC * coins have a better chance of crossing to PCGS in grade.

4. PR coins by NGC sometimes have small hairlines in the high grades that

will not cross in grade to PCGS.

5. Does PCGS have overgraded coins, yes they do. These exist, but to a lesser overall extent

then other third party grading service.

6.My personal preference is to have my coins in PCGS Holders. Why? Because it makes

me feel more confident about my selection of a coin. Does that make sense? Who knows

thats just the way I feel about it.

7. If you dont agree, thats OK, its just my opinion.

elwood · September 28, 2003 7:47AM

FOM & WSM

The 97 Half would have been the same price in either holder, because it was the same coin. I only deal with people that actually know how to grade coins and who buy coins, not holders. I could have gotten the same price if it was raw.
We're talking true American Classics here. Not modern day hyped mumbo jumbo registry set stuff.

ClausUrch · September 28, 2003 7:52AM

More classics for me!!

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 8:34AM

Russ, you really need to get out of this Kennedy rut your in and expand your horizons! What do you think is easier to make, a PR70 or a MS70?NGC

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 8:39AM

PCGS

MS70s will have a BIG impact on the PR70 Market of XYZ grading company! BTW, there is still more PR70s in NGC in general!

Russ · September 28, 2003 8:41AM

<< Russ, you really need to get out of this Kennedy rut your in and expand your horizons! >>

WSM,

As I'm typing this, I'm asking myself why I bother. But, the thought crosses my mind that while you will continue to blindly spoon up any pablum that PCGS plops on to your plate, there may be others around who mistakenly assume that your drivel is the be all and end all of grading. So..

You will find exactly the same thing for PR70 in every modern series. PCGS has graded many, many more than NGC. That is a fact.

Russ, NCNE

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 8:45AM

This is the closest Ive ever seen the two!

coinlieutenant · September 28, 2003 8:49AM

WSM and FOM,

As per other thread right now, I have to disagree....

To say that there is an overarching absolute grading bias based soley on the plastic is purely false. Furthermore, it shows a lack of experience with the real market and a lack of grading ability.

Gloves on... but lets keep it clean. Again, not meant as a flame, hopefully taken as solid advice instead.

John

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 8:49AM

<< What do you think is easier to make, a PR70 or a MS70?

Are you going to answer my question?

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 9:00AM

Funny how there is always more NGC PR70s available when there are so many more PCGS!NGC PR70 ,PCGS PR70

MadMarty · September 28, 2003 9:13AM

Hey WSM and FOM, who really gives a rats ass!

wallstreetman · September 28, 2003 9:18AM

<< Hey WSM and FOM, who really gives a rats ass! >>

You do! MR. PCGS 66FBL

puff · September 28, 2003 9:46AM

<< 

<< Hey WSM and FOM, who really gives a rats ass! >>

You do! MR. PCGS 66FBL >>

What's a PCGS66FBL

Prices of PCGS Slabbed Coins vs. the Competition

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