My name is David O’Brien, and I am the new owner of this coin
David, welcome to the forum. I am sorry that you had to join under such bizarre circumstances. You presented your case in a concise and apparently very honest format. Please stick around and share you knowledge with the rest of us. It is always interesting to hear all sides of an issue. After all of the facts have been laid out, I am on your side.
David's post, which I find VERY credible, paints a dramatically different picture than that which we were led to believe. I think the originator of this thread has some explaining to do.
Now we all know why I preferenced what I said with "if I am reading what happened correctly", too many times we have been burned on here with one side of the story. Paul Harvey made a living with his, "now for the rest of the story". I would like to hear Park Avenues, rest of the story now.
Welcome to the board Dave and I have extra flack jackets for sell.
Wow David.I got to say that you are a better man than Me.
Ask anyone here and they will tell you I have an ITCHY middle finger. I think God gave us 2 middle fingers for cases just like this. I think you were abused. I will give you major Props. And I think A lot of people here appreciate you coming by. Please stick around.I think you have a lot to share.
<< <i>My name is David O’Brien, and I am the new owner of this coin >>
It’s always nice to hear both sides.
It sounds like the right hand did not know what the left was doing and vise versa with you getting caught up in the middle. A little dealer deception with a clear attempt to maximize profit at the collectors expense seems to have been in play also, which is not anything new or surprising.
Welcome David and congrats on your new acquisition.
Bill
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I will not comment on what did or did not actually happen, since I don't claim to know.
I will say this, however - I know David, from email exchanges, one or more phone conversations and a few face to face meetings/conversations. I consider him a good guy and a pleasure to work with. We have had a few good size transactions and each has been as good as it gets.
Edited to add: Welcome David - it gets easier and more enjoyable here (for most participants) after a while. If you can get through this, the rest will be a breeze.
Edited to add that I too know David from both email and phone conversations and have had a few very easy transactions with him. As Mark pointed out, they went like clock work.
David, Welcome to the boards. I would like to apologize for speaking of your integrity without knowing you. It sounds like a VERY complex situation. I would very much like to hear from Bobs take on this new information.
Dorkkarl, While it would appear that you may be right about making judgments before walking in ones shoes in this case, your not off the hook on ethics.
Welcome to the boards. I don't remember what I wrote, but it is quite possible that I too have egg on my face. In any case, I should remember to be careful about believing everything I read or hear...
I cant believe what I have read. Half truths and lies and posturing. One dealer sobbing. Another lousy dealer casting stones even though hed screw your mother you a nickel. No wonder collectors hate dealers and after reading what some collectors wrote I can understand why dealers hate collectors.
Man ...You guys were Roasting this guy.I Haven't heard ANY outcry now that we find we may have been Duped as well. >>
No, we were not roasting David. We were questioning the ethics of a person that was misrepresented ( possibly) by Mr.Parkave. With that said, I will try not to be so quick to rush to judgement in the future.
This type of dealing in other areas (such as diamonds) would result in black-balling (at least). Just think how this type of thing would effect real estate brokers. I would no longer deal with either of them (since neither has ethics) and I would let their names known to the community.
Jim: It is my understanding that the collector intends to post his own comment as soon as his application to become a new member is approved. Again, the collector did not believe he had a "done deal" whatsoever, but, if he did (I was not there and take Bob at his word as well), I do believe he has the character to honor it.
Actually, I think much of this thread was also about DorkKarl. If we assume that Park Ave represented the situation accurately, then I would still have an issue with DK's vigorous defense of that type of behavior.
Of course, all this is now moot as we now have two completely different versions of the events. I think I will refrain from expressing who is more truthful, as I really have no solid basis for forming an opinion.
If we totally hijack this thread into yet another "DK the Contrarian" vs the rest, then all will be normal once again in this bizarre microcosm of a community.
I just gotta add after reading through this WHOLE post, it sure beats working! Drama, intrigue, backstabbing.....David, I hope you've already claimed the made-for-tv rights.
PS-even before David came in and revealed the WHOLE story, I was definitely on dorkkarl's side...and I must say dorkkarl, you are one patient guy.
Wow. I truly appreciate all of the kind words and welcomes I have received. I knew these message boards existed, but never knew how much they were used and to what extent. This whole experience sure has been helpful in better understanding the coin business and the coin hobby. Hopefully there is more I can add in the future.
I also want to point out that the two dealers I mentioned were by no means the only honest and excellent transactions I have had in the coin business. There have been many. They are just the two with which I have worked the most.
David- Welcome to the Forum. I look forward to your continued participation here. Sorry this couldn't be under less strenuous circumstances. Enjoy your time here!
There is one question I have to ask of you.
Why was it you felt compelled to SIGN a receipt to hold the coin until the following day?
That one bothers me. I've never been asked to sign a receipt just to hold a coin for a day. Not even once. And if I were, I wouldn't sign. If a dealer insisted that I sign the receipt to hold the coin, then it would be under a statement such as, "I request this seller hold the coin for my consideration, until date x-yy-2003, and no intention to purchase has been stated or implied." The dealer would also have to sign. Now, if a dealer asked me to leave a $20 to $50 non-refundable cash deposit, to be applied to purchase price, then that would be fine. I can understand his need to something like that. I would expect a receipt for the deposit. A signature on a receipt? I don't know......
you really shouldn't gloat or let your pride lead you to say things like hate to say it, but ....i told you so. bob's initial post lacks a certain amount of credibilty, imo. ARE YOU LISTENING, keets? K S without thoroughly reading my replies. go back to page three where i entered the thread and you'll find that i said if you are of the mindset that this type of behavior, if it ocurred as outlined, is proper and a sound way to operate, then it is good for you to hide your identity.
<< <i>hey karl you really shouldn't gloat or let your pride lead you to say things ETC ETC ETC >>
keets you are correct. i am sorry.
beleive it or not, i'm not the gloating type.
i will say thought that i'm really glad that i may have helped out in getting both sides of the story presented. just seemed to me that there was a lot of 1-sided accusations going on at the beginning of the thread.
apologies offered all the way around to anyone else i offended. believe me, nothing personal was intended.
Went to mesoscale ocean variability class and BAM!, everything now becomes clear...
Mr. Obrien, given the FULL story, now I understand. Given the brief synopsis accepted as truth by dorkkarl, I am still prone to disagree with him. Sounds like you would feel the same way given the abridged version.
Welcome to the boards. So why dont you post us some pics so we can see the collection!!!
Mr. Green, we are awaiting your response to the recent developments....
I'm also curious about the need to sign an invoice to hold a coin that the buyer is "thinking about." Too many twists and turns in this one for me to follow.
Could there be three sides to this story?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
As to the question you first asked. "which culprit is worse the dealer or the buyer?" ..... Right now, I would say he(your client/dealer friend) is an ****** for backing out of the deal in the first place...., still waiting to hear your side of the story, and Dave Obrien is off the hook and in the right.
As posted earlier, this fiasco would not have been one if the coin was being sold by the person who actually owns it. This point is made in Doug Winter's excellent article, Selecting the Right Coin Dealer
<< <i>this fiasco would not have been one if the coin was being sold by the person who actually owns it. >>
RYK, perhaps part of this fiasco would have been averted. But, in reading David's post, it sounds as if the dealer who actually owned the coin, treated him unfairly, at least on one occasion. I haven't heard that dealer's side of the story, of course, but....
Pontiacinf, I could interpret that comment to mean that you might consider doing business with us.
Or, in this hostile environment for dealers, I could take those words to mean that you're about to fill me with buckshot. I hope it's the former and not the latter.
In the scenario laid out by Parkave, I still stand by my statements about the buyer's obligation to complete the deal and the lack of ethics on the part of both the original owner and the buyer for 'stiffing' Bob.
Now that David (and welcome to the forum BTW) has given his side of the story, it sounds like Bob needs fill in some perceived blanks in his original tale. And while it wouldn't hurt to hear the other dealer's side as well, my brain is tired.
Comments
<< <i>would you cancel the $15,000 contract & save the $1,000 bucks? yes or no.
..........i would say no >>
sorry keets, but unless you are very rich or very stupid ......
i don't believe you.
but i accept your answer in good faith.
as for me, i'll save the $1000. at least i'm honest about it.
K S
David: Welcome to the US Coin Forum
Wondercoin
David, welcome to the forum. I am sorry that you had to join under such bizarre circumstances. You presented your case in a concise and apparently very honest format. Please stick around and share you knowledge with the rest of us. It is always interesting to hear all sides of an issue. After all of the facts have been laid out, I am on your side.
Russ, NCNE
You do mean they lied, right?
Also, if transactions are supposed to be confidential how did these dealers figure out you were the same buyer?
BTW David, welcome to the boards!
i told you so.
bob's initial post lacks a certain amount of credibilty, imo.
keets?
K S
(edited: removed offensive words)
Welcome to the board Dave and I have extra flack jackets for sell.
two thoughts after reading your post:
1. you should never put business before coins because it causes too much confusion.
2. i don't like the way i look with egg on my face!!
so tell us already, what is this coin//
al h.
Ask anyone here and they will tell you I have an ITCHY middle finger.
I think God gave us 2 middle fingers for cases just like this.
I think you were abused.
I will give you major Props.
And I think A lot of people here appreciate you coming by.
Please stick around.I think you have a lot to share.
<< <i>hate to say it, but ....
i told you so.
bob's initial post lacks a certain amount of credibilty, imo.
ARE YOU LISTENING, keets?
K S >>
SO You Mean DK Was Right........
<< <i>My name is David O’Brien, and I am the new owner of this coin >>
It’s always nice to hear both sides.
It sounds like the right hand did not know what the left was doing and vise versa with you getting caught up in the middle. A little dealer deception with a clear attempt to maximize profit at the collectors expense seems to have been in play also, which is not anything new or surprising.
Welcome David and congrats on your new acquisition.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I will say this, however - I know David, from email exchanges, one or more phone conversations and a few face to face meetings/conversations. I consider him a good guy and a pleasure to work with. We have had a few good size transactions and each has been as good as it gets.
Edited to add: Welcome David - it gets easier and more enjoyable here (for most participants) after a while. If you can get through this, the rest will be a breeze.
Great to have you here, and thanks for your post.
Mike Printz
Larry Whitlow, Ltd.
Edited to add that I too know David from both email and phone conversations and have had a few very easy transactions with him. As Mark pointed out, they went like clock work.
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
Welcome to the boards. I would like to apologize for speaking of your integrity without knowing you. It sounds like a VERY complex situation.
I would very much like to hear from Bobs take on this new information.
Dorkkarl,
While it would appear that you may be right about making judgments before walking in ones shoes in this case, your not off the hook on ethics.
Welcome to the boards. I don't remember what I wrote, but it is quite possible that I too have egg on my face. In any case, I should remember to be careful about believing everything I read or hear...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I have read what I assume are recomendations from a couple dealers I TRUST.
I think Mr.Parkave owes a big explanation as well as a PUBLIC appoligy to David.
Dave If you need my fingers just say so.
Man ...You guys were Roasting this guy.I Haven't heard ANY outcry now that we find we may have been Duped as well.
<< <i>Welcome David! Sorry your first post had to do with your ethics.
I think that is about the saddest thing posted today.
Man ...You guys were Roasting this guy.I Haven't heard ANY outcry now that we find we may have been Duped as well. >>
No, we were not roasting David. We were questioning the ethics of a person that was misrepresented ( possibly) by Mr.Parkave.
With that said, I will try not to be so quick to rush to judgement in the future.
Numonebuyer
Wondercoin
It is nice to see the other side of the story.
Welcome Brian
Jim
Of course, all this is now moot as we now have two completely different versions of the events. I think I will refrain from expressing who is more truthful, as I really have no solid basis for forming an opinion.
If we totally hijack this thread into yet another "DK the Contrarian" vs the rest, then all will be normal once again in this bizarre microcosm of a community.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
PS-even before David came in and revealed the WHOLE story, I was definitely on dorkkarl's side...and I must say dorkkarl, you are one patient guy.
<< <i>I would no longer deal with either of them (since neither has ethics) and I would let their names known to the community. >>
Numonebuyer,
You need to go back and read the detailed response posted by the buyer in this situation.
Russ, NCNE
I also want to point out that the two dealers I mentioned were by no means the only honest and excellent transactions I have had in the coin business. There have been many. They are just the two with which I have worked the most.
Best to all.
Hey, let's just call this thread a "done deal" and move on.
There is one question I have to ask of you.
Why was it you felt compelled to SIGN a receipt to hold the coin until the following day?
That one bothers me. I've never been asked to sign a receipt just to hold a coin for a day. Not even once. And if I were, I wouldn't sign. If a dealer insisted that I sign the receipt to hold the coin, then it would be under a statement such as, "I request this seller hold the coin for my consideration, until date x-yy-2003, and no intention to purchase has been stated or implied." The dealer would also have to sign. Now, if a dealer asked me to leave a $20 to $50 non-refundable cash deposit, to be applied to purchase price, then that would be fine. I can understand his need to something like that. I would expect a receipt for the deposit. A signature on a receipt? I don't know......
ha ha
you really shouldn't gloat or let your pride lead you to say things like hate to say it, but ....i told you so. bob's initial post lacks a certain amount of credibilty, imo. ARE YOU LISTENING, keets? K S without thoroughly reading my replies. go back to page three where i entered the thread and you'll find that i said if you are of the mindset that this type of behavior, if it ocurred as outlined, is proper and a sound way to operate, then it is good for you to hide your identity.
what should i be listening for??
al h.
<< <i>Karnac predicts a very long thread. All the classic ingredients.
Clankeye >>
No way............ are you crazy?
<< <i>hey karl you really shouldn't gloat or let your pride lead you to say things ETC ETC ETC >>
keets you are correct. i am sorry.
beleive it or not, i'm not the gloating type.
i will say thought that i'm really glad that i may have helped out in getting both sides of the story presented. just seemed to me that there was a lot of 1-sided accusations going on at the beginning of the thread.
apologies offered all the way around to anyone else i offended. believe me, nothing personal was intended.
K S
K S
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>You need to go back and read the detailed response posted by the buyer in this situation. >>
I took the time to read the whole thing. I didn't realize I had to go to page 5 of this thread to find it. Exhausting...
I realize there are always two sides to every story, but this thing reads like a soap opera.
Numonebuyer
<< <i>I DISAGREE! >>
I tink u gosom splainin to do
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=152080&highlight_key=y&keyword1=thread&keyword2=dorkkarl
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Went to mesoscale ocean variability class and BAM!, everything now becomes clear...
Mr. Obrien, given the FULL story, now I understand. Given the brief synopsis accepted as truth by dorkkarl, I am still prone to disagree with him. Sounds like you would feel the same way given the abridged version.
Welcome to the boards. So why dont you post us some pics so we can see the collection!!!
Mr. Green, we are awaiting your response to the recent developments....
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
I'm also curious about the need to sign an invoice to hold a coin that the buyer is "thinking about." Too many twists and turns in this one for me to follow.
Could there be three sides to this story?
siliconvalleycoins.com
Selecting the Right Coin Dealer
Sounds like it was a Done Deal
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
<< <i>this fiasco would not have been one if the coin was being sold by the person who actually owns it. >>
RYK, perhaps part of this fiasco would have been averted. But, in reading David's post, it sounds as if the dealer who actually owned the coin, treated him unfairly, at least on one occasion. I haven't heard that dealer's side of the story, of course, but....
someone else has used his
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>...ILL GIVE MARK A SHOT >>
Pontiacinf, I could interpret that comment to mean that you might consider doing business with us.
Or, in this hostile environment for dealers, I could take those words to mean that you're about to fill me with buckshot.
Now that David (and welcome to the forum BTW) has given his side of the story, it sounds like Bob needs fill in some perceived blanks in his original tale. And while it wouldn't hurt to hear the other dealer's side as well, my brain is tired.
GSAGUY