Why does congress hate coin collectors?

topstuf · August 3, 2003 4:30AM

I didn't know it till today when I read the business section and saw where "collectibles" have been excluded from the capital gains cut.

Coins would still be taxed at 28% while garbage ..stocks.. only take half the hit at 15%.

Hmmmmm. Do they want us to sell our coins for cash on the spot no questions asked?

PERISH THE THOUGHT!

Actually, so many collectors are so stupid that they buy coins with PayPal that keeps a FULL PERMANENT RECORD of all transactions so they would not be .......tempted ......to be bad.

Good for PayPal. The PATRIOTIC way to do business.........handy, electronic, recorded, watched.

ms70 · August 3, 2003 5:27AM

So what if you buy coins with PayPal? If you paid a fair price for what you wanted what's the big deal? The tax man only cares about
your sales, not your purchases.

Edited to say: I do agree that the govt is not friend to collectors- on many issues.

cherrypickincoin · August 3, 2003 5:34AM

I rarely use any electronic service when purchasing coins. I pay by cash when in person or check if online, almost always. I will pay by credit card or debit card if that is more convenient for the seller but I do not going through middleman companies like PayPal.

nwcs · August 3, 2003 5:35AM

>Why does congress hate coin collectors?

The ANA doesn't pay the lobbyists enough to pay the congressional people enough.

my3cents · August 3, 2003 6:05AM

Since I always permanently keep some of what I purchase online, I never have any profits...

well....

Almost never

topstuf · August 3, 2003 9:15AM

Oh, MS70, you have a real SURPRISE coming.

Back in 1980 I bought a coin collection from a guy who was obviously wanting to keep the whole matter PRIVATE.

He called frantically about 3 days later and asked if I reported the purchase to the IRS. As they were collector coin, I of course told him no............but..........asked him what he did with the money.

"Well....uh derposited it en mur bank uccount" was his sophisticated reply.

My reply was............"well, you just reported it yourself."

IF......only ....IF....maybe........perhaps........if....you ever wish to remain PRIVATE in your disposition of collectibles, there are about 7 jillion ways to trip you up. A new car registration. An unexplained ....INCREASE .....in your interest income..........oh the ways are endless.

And they WILL reconstruct your PURCHASES to nail you for taxes.

As of course they should, we being all law-abiding, upright, pay-our-share, patriotic, humble American SHEEP!

Baaaaaaaa.

ksteelheader · August 3, 2003 9:58AM

As long as we all keep putting the same people back in office, things will always remain the same. Government service (political) was meant to be a short term service to your country, not a full time lucrative job. Remember that the next time you help to re-elect a multi-term politician back into office because "he/she's doing a good job.".........Ken

ohbaby · August 3, 2003 10:23AM

Why does congress hate coin collectors?

I say no emphatically. Congress and us as taxpayers hate people who uses hobby losses / expenses as a means of evading taxes.

Back in the 1980s/early 90s all kinds of scammers used the unsuspecting to unload common coins at uncommon prices. Fast forward a few years and people wised up when they tried to sell for .10 per dollar. They tried to write off the loss and the IRA said no.

Today? Say story same players maybe but different audience. Imagine the suckers who buy Coin Vault BU common Morgans at $25-30/coin or those who buy Isle Of Man Silver Jubilee Mega Anniversary super limited edition proof sets at $500 a pop. When it comes time to sell they find their Morgans are worth $10 and the proof set has melt value of $25. Or those who purchase thousands in ACG slabs only to discover the value is but 50% of price paid.

Why should taxpayers foot the bill for such losses?

Conder101 · August 3, 2003 10:57PM

They hate us because after they go to all of the trouble to give us all those wonderful commemorative coin programs, we don't go falling all over ourselves to make sure they are all sell outs that would raise the maximum free money for their constituents err the sponsors of these deserving programs.

baccaruda · August 4, 2003 12:24AM

The government gives tax cuts to encourage certain behavior. The capital gains cut is designed to encourage people to invest in the private sector, therefore growing the economy creating residual benefits for everyone. You're essentially being compensated for the benefit you're providing for everyone.

Buying a bunch of old coins and profitting from their resale is not providing ANY residual benefit to anyone else, thus they don't need to encourage it.

barberlover · August 4, 2003 12:31AM

How would you finish the following sentence;

If I am not allowed to deduct my coin losses, then I owe the government _________ from coins that I sell for a profit.

A. All that the government says I owe.

B. What profit ? wink wink

C. Diddely squat [they don't pay me back when I loose, so I don't owe them a damn thing if I make some money.]

Les

BillJones · August 4, 2003 12:38AM

Liberals are always looking for ways to raise taxes. For them high taxes, huge government and micro managing people’s lives is socially desirable. That’s the nature of politics, and since the numismatic community has no strong voice in Washington, we get rolled.

Former congressman, Jim Shannon of Massachusetts, was one of the driving forces behind doing away with the capital gains tax treatment for coins and other collectables. I guess the argument is that capital gains tax treatment encourages investment which creates jobs, which is true enough. Coins and other things are not viewed are job producers, except in our rather small industry. Therefore they don’t get capital gains treatment.

BTW, Mr. Shannon is no longer in politics.

He made too many enemies and then give up his safe Massachusetts House seat to run for governor. He lost,

which shows there is some justice in the world.

ohbaby · August 4, 2003 5:45AM

Liberals are always looking for ways to raise taxes. For them high taxes, huge government and micro managing people’s lives is socially desirable.

All ilk of POLITICIANS raise taxes when it benefits THEM or THEIR voting block. Politicians are about keeping their power of office and do what will keep them there.

I place the blame if there is some to be assessed on the American public who doesn't vote and more importantly don't know the issues other than what they saw on TV.

Blame the public not politicians. We put them in office and we reelect them despite their failures and broken promises.

baccaruda · August 4, 2003 8:40AM

I place the blame if there is some to be assessed on the American public who doesn't vote

That would make it the fault of 70% of America. I voted last election - I didn't cast a vote therefore voting to scrap a failed and corrupt political system as the constitution states and start anew. The 70% of my fellow Americans who also voted in this manner were ignored by 30% or so who wish to continue reaping the benefits of the failed system (principally the elderly) who viewed the election as "the voice of the people" - though it was anything but.

lclugza · August 4, 2003 9:00AM

There is a law saying that if someone deposits $10,000 or more in cash, the bank has to report it to the government. So be careful about those big cash transactions.

Conder101 · August 4, 2003 10:59PM

<< <i> I voted last election - I didn't cast a vote therefore voting to scrap a failed and corrupt political system as the constitution states and start anew. >>

I see a "did not vote" as a vote of approval for things to stay just as they are, whoever you put in and whatever they do is fine with me. You can't "scrap a failed and corrupt political system and stat anew" by sitting on your hands. You have to DO something. Either become active and try and change things through the system, or start a revolution to impliment your ideas by force. Which is what the "founding fathers" did.

fishcooker · August 4, 2003 11:17PM

They also have the option to report *any* suspicious cash transaction smaller than $10k. So you can't just drop $9999 and be OK.

baccaruda · August 5, 2003 12:55AM

I'm very vocal about the corruption in government and the misappropriation of the common man's hard-earned money. People's reaction's range from:

A. Completely uninterested. Of greater concern is the winner of the latest "reality show".

B. Contempt of complaints. Just find a way to make the corrupt system work for you.

C. Uncle Tom Syndrome. Just agree with those in charge and maybe they'll invite you into their corruption.

D. "Yeah, but what are you gonna do?"

Revolution sounds like a benevolent term, but the truth is people despise change. It's easy to gain support for revolution when an oppressing body is a contained legislature 3,000 miles away. Who do you direct revolution towards in our times? Our government is dispersed and personalized among the people.

Tim McVeigh was a revolutionary - does anyone consider him to be a "hero" in the mold of the founding fathers?

alright, I'm completely off the subject now.

Conder101 · August 5, 2003 2:24AM

<< <i>Tim McVeigh was a revolutionary - does anyone consider him to be a "hero" in the mold of the founding fathers? >>

He would have been considered as such if he had won. The victors write the histories. If the British had won back i the 1700's, our "founding fathers" would be viewed in much the same way as the British view Guy Fawkes.

baccaruda · August 5, 2003 3:18AM

He would have been considered as such if he had won. The victors write the histories. If the British had won back i the 1700's, our "founding fathers" would be viewed in much the same way as the British view Guy Fawkes.

I agree 100%. Greatness is a very subjective thing, and easily manipulated by those in power.

1jester · August 5, 2003 8:27AM

Baccaruda, nice list. Topstuf, thanks for another brilliant thread, and to the other posters a round of applause.

Does anyone want to vote Libertarian?

Why does congress hate coin collectors?

Comments

Leave a Comment