CAC & Standing Liberty Quarters (Submission Result Posted in Reply)
Catbert
Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have a small collection of SLQs and selected them for what appealed to my eye without regard for FH or CAC certification. However, recently, I decided to submit them for review and to confirm my suspicion that some of these weren't going to pass their review. The suspicion centered around knee or leg friction/wear that is disqualifying for an uncirculated grade while PCGS did not reach the same determination (ala "commercial grading"?). My suspicion was confirmed by JA with his feedback.
Your challenge, based upon pictures alone, is to determine what passed and which didn't (one or more did receive a green bean). I acknowledge that your guesses are extremely limited by deriving your opinion based upon a single picture, but we're just having fun here so please engage! PCGS assigned grade above picture:
MS62
MS64
MS62
MS63
MS65
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Comments
I also hope that this thread will be instructional for those of us who like this type. Beyond guesses, if you have a coin that adds to the theme of my post, please feel free to contribute. Thank you!
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Just for fun, here are a few more with a sticker already:
AU58
AU58
CACG 62
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I think the 28S MS 65 passed and possibly the 1923 MS 64.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I wish the pics were a touch higher resolution but trying my best.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I’m at a bit of a loss with these as I’ve spent very little time with this series, but am excited to learn something through this thread.
Banana to my head, I’d guess 2 and 5 passed. I haven’t found that a poor strike stops a CAC sticker at 65.
Edit to add: I’m really liking the intense rainbow peripheral toning on some of these.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
I’ll guess that the 1923 stickered.
You mentioned “…confirmed by JA with his feedback.”
By that did you mean that J.A. let you know the reason for each rejection?
@Catbert, stickers or no stickers, those are all very attractive coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed.
JA has made comments that it can, depending on the coin. His comments were in context of O mint Morgans. Like you, I don't know the series so taking a stab at it.
Yes, sticker or no, these are all quite nice coins.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Well, I'll try my hand from the images.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
MS62 1917 - no. Knee friction or slight wear. Looks FH though
MS64 1923 - no. Obv toning may have held it back
MS62 1927 - no. Perhaps slight wear above the knee. Might be cleaned
MS63 1928 - passed
MS65 1928S - passed. But dark toning areas may have held it back
I believe 2,4 and 5 stickered.
Super nice collection. One of my favorite series!
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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23&28 stickered, the rest did not. Love the 17 & 27 regardless. All are very desireable to me.
Jim
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All really nice SLQs.
1) No bean AU. Rub on knee
2) Yes, no problems
3) No bean AU. Rub on knee
4) No bean, possible friction on leg
5) No bean maybe overgraded
One of my favorite series too.
Zack.
What’s the criteria for FH on the 1917 type 1, and why does OP’s coin fall short?
Edit: OP later noted that this coin is, in fact, designed FH
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
Per PCGS: “Type I Standing Liberty Quarters earn the FH designation when there is a clear and distinct separation between Miss Liberty’s hair cords and her cap.”
https://www.pcgs.com/news/what-does-full-head-mean-on-standing-liberty-quarters
Based on many examples I’ve seen so-designated, I would have guessed FH for the pictured coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
All great coins!
jom
'27 & '28-S.
Yes, per my request. Thank you.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I'm going to guess the 62s and 63 did not pass, with the 62s as the quintessential market grade, and that the 64 and 65 did pass. All are great looking coins.
Edited to add my experience with SLQ and CAC: I searched long and hard for a 1919 to fit my date set. I ultimately bought a CACG 64, which PCGS gave a 65 after crackout. Here are images from both services.
Buffalo Nickel Digital Album
Toned Buffalo Date SetDigital Album
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/411385 7070 Registry<
.
Breakdown of the Grading Comparison:
.
100% Full Head for Issue (Left): The hair behind the eye and cheek is very sharply defined, forming a distinct, clear border between the facial features and the helmet/headgear. [1]
.
Minimum Detail for Full Head (Middle): The complete hairline is present, but the details are noticeably flatter and less pronounced than the left example, meeting the bare minimum standard for a Full Head designation. [1]
.
Just Short of Full Head Detail (Right): The hair details along the hairline or separation line show weakness or slight merging, missing the strict threshold required for a Full Head/Full Bands type qualification.
.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/tips-from-the-grading-room part 1
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I like ‘em Dan!
Guessing #2 & #5 passed, but a series I know little about.
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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Based on my record with SLQ's submitted to CAC for stickers -- I have gone 0 for 7 -- I probably shouldn't take a stab at guessing. But what the heck. My guess is that 2 and 5 stickered and the others did not.
Regardless of sticker or not @Catbert, these are all very attractive coins.
As a side note, I also have a 1917 type-1 that is not designated as a FH, yet has more of a full head than half the coins I've seen designated as such. Personally, I like the SLQ series, but I hate the FH designation. It is too subjective and seemingly haphazardly attributed. I have seen far too many of all dates designated as FH that were anything but. Plus, many with full heads are weakly struck on the rest of the details of the coin. A question I always pose to friends: If there isn't a FH designation for Walking Liberty halves -- and thank gawd there isn't -- why is there this designation for SLQ's?
AU62 (58) because of friction in the knee.
65FH
love your examples. My guess 23 and 28 CAC
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These coins (in OP's second post) are already stickered.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
Judging by that, ignore my other guesses then. 😂 I guess I assume CAC is tougher than it necessarily is. Regardless all are attractive.
1917 No Knee wear
1928 No Knee wear
1923 No knee wear
1917 fail
1923 passed
1927 fail
1928 fail
1928-S passed
One of my favorite designs, photo done by Mark Goodman.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
All are nice, the 23 & 28 got a bean.
1927 and 1928-S passed. Others- no bean. I like them all, though.
First of all, I can't grade. However, I've submitted several hundred coins to CAC on behalf of friends and myself. Based on our experiences I would say. all of them failed.
Blue MS62 - artificial toning. MS65 weak strike for a 65 The rest, PVC.
Thanks to all for playing the guessing game. The MS65 28-S was the only one to receive the green sticker out of the group.
The only one that I felt had a really good shot at stickering was the 1923. That was the only relative surprise to me.
Generously, JA red stickered the ones that failed with notes indicating leg and/or knee friction with arrows pointing to the area of concern. Nothing about grade, FH status, color, cleaning, etc were noted. I always appreciate his feedback (one needs to specifically request this courtesy).
So, if the sticker is important when considering a SLQ purchase, look at that area carefully (top of thigh and knee - left leg/Liberty's right leg. Look for luster grazes, evidence of friction and whether the knee is round and not flattened) among other considerations.
BTW, I failed to note that the 1917 Type 1 was designated FH by PCGS.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Okay I got here late to the thread and the results are already posted. Folks may or may not believe this, but my thoughts were that the 1928-S MS65 would be the only one to receive a sticker.
The 1917 has pretty obvious and significant leg rub; the 1923 I blew up and you can see the shadow of wear pattern going down the shinbone; the 1927 just looks AU; and the 1928 appears to have moderate knee rub. However, the 1928-S seems to have no rub at all, really good luster and light attractive toning so it would get the sticker.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I had a really nicely toned ‘17s type 1 that I had cracked out of an ANACS 62FH holder and sent to PCGS.
Came back 58+ and I was pumped. Was absolutely certain it would bean and I even dared to dream a little bit…….
Sent it in as part of a 33 coin sub with CAC. If you had asked me before packing those coins up which one I was most certain would pass, I would’ve picked that coin.
Well…….23/33 coins beaned but that coin did not. Got a red sticker that just said “too much rub on leg”.
Sent it to GC when I broke up my 7070 set and it still hammered for over $2500.
I learned a lot from that process.
I would have guessed that the 23 and 28-S would have passed.
Thanks for this thread CB, good education on LSQ rub for sure!
They are very nice.
You did well. My no CAC 1917-S Standing Liberty Quarter Type 2 PCGS MS-65 FH went for $2,390 at GC in 2/2024.
Would not kick any of them out of bed!
Assuming the only reason those four failed was leg and/or knee friction, they should cross to CACG AU58. The problem is (except for perhaps the 62s) it probably does not make financial sense to cross them. As a result, they are all entombed due to market grading.
Dan @Catbert Thanks for sharing this with us! Informative for sure.
I am really surprised about coin 2. (the 1923). If there's really rub I suspect it's at the very highest points on the hairline, top of shield and Eagles shoulder. I don't see it on the leg. And that's an AU64 if there ever was one from what I can see.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Just for clarity, my results didn't surprise me. I didn't buy them expecting them to sticker nor do I intend to cross them and spend the money just so it aligns with CACG grading. It's simply a fun side collection and the submission was to test my suspicions. Sometimes, it's not all about the grade accuracy and/or CAC
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I missed the chance to guess. Here’s a nice toner but is it a CAC?
AU55
"Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them" Bruce Lee