Mass Cross Over in Light of Now Partially Retracted Revisions and Limitations to NGC Guarantee
cameonut2011
Posts: 11,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
Now that NGC has claimed to void the guarantee for all coins after 10 years and made this change retroactively, are you more inclined to crossover all the CACed ones over to PCGS or CACG?
Edited for Context: On June 2, 2026, NGC silently amended its guarantee on its website providing that the protections provided by guarantee would expire for all coins on the 10th anniversary of the date the coin was graded. Previously that time limitation only applied to copper and copper nickel coinage. The plain meaning of the June 2, 2026 guarantee expanded this to all NGC coins including gold and silver that had lifetime guarantees previously dating all the way back to NGC’s inception in 1987. The language contained no time restrictions and provided the guarantee would expire after 10 years for ALL coins. The new guarantee also added language limiting your remedies and ability to enforce the guarantee limiting all legal and equitable remedies whether asserted through litigation (court) or arbitration.
In early October 2026, the collecting community took notice of the change prompting enormous backlash on social media and coin forums including both the PCGS and NGC Forums and Coin Talk. Various posters contacted NGC, and NGC appeared to soften its approach suggesting it would only apply to coins graded on or after June 2, 2026 but one message previously made vague reference to statutes of limitations in different jurisdictions varying.
Finally Scott Schechter, NGC Vice President, acknowledged the backlash and announced that NGC was abandoning the new 10 year expiration. NGC updated its website on October 29, 2026. There was nothing in the statement to suggest that the language applying it to ALL NGC certified coins without temporal limitation was an error or that it meant anything that what the previous guarantee previously stated unambiguously. The October revision left intact the language removing your ability to sue or even arbitrate if a dispute arises.
Comments
I think the number of coins crossed out of NGC holders because of the policy you state, if it is even fully enforced, will be incredibly small.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I'm already doing that just because of OCD and liking the PCGS slabs better. I'm fine buying coins I like in NGC holders, I usually buy with the intent to move them over to PCGS at some point.
Nothing against NGC as a collector, my best coin is in an NGC holder with a CAC sticker. It did not cross the first time with no CAC sticker, going to try again now that it has a CAC sticker.
Hadn’t heard about this. Is this because slabbed coins can change over time (eg, a “red” cent turning less red)?
NGC has long done this with copper coins. Are you saying they will now do it for silver coins?
All coins. This is not about color, their guarantee as to authenticity now expires after 10 years.
https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/ngc-guarantee/
The NGC Guarantee
Subject to the terms, conditions, and limitations specified below, an NGC-certified coin, token, or medal (collectively, a “Coin”) encapsulated in an NGC holder is guaranteed to be:
Genuine (except for NGC Ancients-graded Coins, for the reasons explained here); and
Not overgraded (meaning that it is not graded higher than NGC’s Grading Standards)
In addition, it is guaranteed that NGC “Authentic Hand-Signed” labels have a genuine autograph from the person identified on the NGC label.
For purposes of this Guarantee, the term “NGC” shall include any of the Guarantors listed below.
WARNING: THIS GUARANTEE IS LIMITED IN BOTH SCOPE AND TIME. Any claim under this Guarantee MUST be submitted to NGC BY NO LATER THAN TEN (10) YEARS FROM THE DATE OF GRADING. By making a claim under this Guarantee, Owner (as defined below) agrees to be bound by all of the terms, conditions, limitations, and EXCLUSIVE remedies provided below and waives its right to all other remedies including, without limitation, any and all legal claims asserted through litigation or arbitration.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
The "red" guarantee hasn't been honored by anyone for quite some time. This is for all aspects of every grade. They quietly announced this back in June, further stating that even coins graded before then would be subject to the 10-year expiration. It's just starting to blow up this week. It didn't go well, needless to say, so they changed it to apply only to coins certified since June. That's still not being accepted on social media, and I expect that there will be a significant shift in grading service preferences as a result.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
To be clear, the original NGC guarantee never originally applied to copper or copper nickel coins. The guarantee was amended in the early 2000s to guarantee copper and copper nickel for 10 years. Silver and gold were always covered. In June of this year, NGC purported to make the 10 years limitation applicable to ALL coins and make it retroactive.
So you buy a 10 yo NGC graded coin off of eBay and you later discover the coin is not authentic - you have no recourse. I suppose that’s why NGC started listing the date graded on its online cert verification.
Are we supposed to pay for a regrade before each 10yr anniversary? I don’t know what the motivation is behind this announcement, but disappointing at the least.
Does NGC's ten year max coverage/guarantee for grades include description & authenticity too ?
So this leaves just PCGS & CAC that guarantees their encapsulation service, right ?
Everyone else is just selling plastic with no guarantees except NGC with a newly announced ten year expiration.
This seems like an important question. Why break a bond of trust with your customer base, and why put at risk a core reason for NGC’s existence? Maybe John Albanese will opine on this at some point.
I imagine he's giddy at the prospect of a major competitor shooting itself in the foot.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Latin American Collection
As he no longer owns an interest in it, I doubt he will offer an opinion on it publicly.
It's hard for me to find the logic in imposing a time limitation on an authenticity guarantee. Maybe this decision from NGC was made for them by their insurance carrier or similar?
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Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
The logic is to create more resubmissions and revenue. Private equity has a bad reputation for good reason.
<<< The logic is to create more resubmissions and revenue >>>
Well that makes even less sense to me. I would never even remotely consider doing that just to restart the clock.
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Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Perhaps I’ve been misinformed, but I was told that CAC only stickers PCGS and NGC coins because of their guarantee. So the CAC’s sticker is not a guarantee of authenticity, that responsibility rests with the TPG’s plastic.
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In light of this policy change, I wonder if CAC will reconsider their sticker policy regarding NGC graded coins.
Do you have a link to where NGC stated the 10 year limit will only apply to coins graded since June? The guarantee that is currently posted on their website was revised June 2, 2026 and doesn't seem to mention this.
ANACS and ICG also offer a guarantee that doesn't expire.
I believe some of these opinions are biased in one way or another. Not too many are screaming about it at the NGC forum. CAC stickered NGC coins will still sell well so if you think they are overgraded just sell it, receive top dollar and move on. Isn't that how it works ?
NGC CAC coins often sell for less than PCGS CAC coins or at least that has been my observation. That suggests the NGC plastic already had negative value. I was thinking this would be even more of an issue. When CAC stickers a coin, it can’t see the edge. The white prongs could also hide rim damage.
Who the heck would resubmit to NGC every 10 years?
The voiding of their guarantee could have significant repercussions and leave collectors on the hook for a lot of money. Take for example the NGC certified Mormon gold coins below.
These images were taken about 5 years apart. Repeating obverse flaws highlighted in red confirms the coins are related. Somehow, a large planchet-flaw looking patch also sprouted up around the “8” in the date. I’m not 100% certain the 2016 coin is fake, but I’ve never seen a genuine coin sprout a planchet flaw.
If this concerns you, don’t be quiet about it. Contact NGC and ask that they reinstate their guarantee. Tell other collectors, dealers, and club members/leaders that NGC did this, and that their coins aren’t guaranteed anymore.
Under NGC’s current guarantee terms, they are under no obligation to make the owner of the coin whole, should it (or both!) be deemed counterfeit.
Head coin nerd @ Rarity7
I am thankful the majority of my collection is in PCGS holders. I have a substantial amount in NGC holders and ANACS soapbox holders, but I know those coins to be genuine and am happy with what they are. So, no need to spend money crossing them over, especially if the new policy of effective with coins graded on or after June 2026 as previously mentioned.
Owen - Fantastic post as usual but I do take issue with one small part.
In my opinion, the correct course of action is to shun NGC and hope that they go out of business. This type of policy change is a disqualifying action for a TPG. You said it right in your IG post:
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
@lermish just trying to keep it PG13 for the forum
Yes for my unfiltered (unhinged?) thoughts find me on Instagram, more coming tomorrow
Head coin nerd @ Rarity7
I'd think that "retroactive" voiding of guarantees would be shot down in court. It doesn't make sense that it would hold up on common sense grounds or other grounds.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
FYI that Mike and Matt discuss this topic in episode 259 of the Coin Show Podcast.
My guess is that the owners of NGC are reacting to the proliferation of sophisticated counterfeits, and they want to limit their future liabilities. Especially as distribution grows across the spectrum of marketing venues. Not what I would have done, but I get it. It will hurt their business as it casts doubt on their ability to provide a trusted service.
PS consider the possibility of more sophisticated coin doctoring as well. And they may be seeing significant growth in an area that makes them less comfortable to control, such as foreign or ancient.
It is an unfortunate decision for those holding the slabs but one that could be adopted by PCGS too, especially if they think the money saved is more than anything lost from those that stop submitting.
But you still have to pay for attorneys or expend many hours of your own time. Will you be compensated for that? Probably not as most jurisdictions follow the American Rule which means you pay your own fees even if you win absent some special statutory provision or rule of court. I’m surprised they haven’t added an arbitration clause to drive fees up even more to discourage claims.
Large corporations have always played games, but private equity is among the worst. They notoriously lie and cut corners with quality knowing that litigation isn’t likely and they may have flipped the company after bleeding it dry before the lawsuits pour in. Private equity has affected appliances, machinery including vehicles, and healthcare. Quality and the consumer suffer. Private equity is a cancer. Most of the profits pay the CEOs and insiders with exorbitant fees. Investors including retirement plans get the crumbs. It is a very sick business model.
I don't have any doubts about the authenticity of any of my NGC-slabbed coins. And I won't be crossing them over.
But this will affect my decision making on future purchases and especially on any future submissions for grading.
That makes sense, but when it comes time to sell, I think there will be a stigma against NGC. I thought there was a strong PCGS and CACG preference before, but this will amplify it even more.
If you purchased a 10 yr old or older NGC holdered coin from one of the big auction firms and it later turned out to be a counterfeit, would the auction firm buy the coin back or do they absolve themselves of any responsibility on 3rd party graded coins?
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Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Good title doesn’t pass; however, I am unaware of any state with a 10+ year statute of limitations if you could come up with a viable cause of action against the auction house.
History is littered with companies that zigged when they should have zagged. PCGS is doubling down on their stated ability to authenticate with their eBay deal.
If NGC is walking away from all of their guarantees after 10 years, they just became a second tier certification service, below PCGS and the CAC slab. This is what often happens when an investment group buys a company. Greed eliminates the factors which made the company a success.
And ICG even guarantees grade and authenticity on their coins when they were in Colorado over 20 years ago, and I have seen some higher value over-graded coins in those slabs. However Anacs does not guarantee grade on the small white holders, only authenticity. If you send them in to reholder they will put them in their blue holder.
I'm thinking that something significant spurred NGC to do this. Maybe their lawyers told them this would be a good idea out of fear after they had to pay out on some significant mistakes.
It’s all about generating revenue. It’s a typical sleazy PE move.
Maybe even third tier.
Greed or fear or a slew of other things can come into play. Whichever, IMO this is a serous misread of their customers.
Does it really kill confidence then? The owner has 10 years which can be a long time to invoke the guarantee. When you buy a coin see it in hand, most vendors have a return policy. How would a silver or gold coin really change in those 10 years to make the original grading wrong? Every coin collector I know scrutinizes the heck out of the coins they own, and even more with high value ones. I wonder if there are other areas of commerce which have escape clauses like this?
When a Retroactive Void is Generally Prohibited
• Contractual Binding Nature: A formal business or product guarantee is a binding legal contract. Once a purchase or service agreement is made under that guarantee, the company usually cannot unilaterally erase it for past transactions.
• Lack of Just Cause: Companies generally cannot cancel a guarantee or policy retroactively just because it becomes inconvenient, expensive, or because of an administrative error on their part.
• Statutory Protections: In consumer protection and insurance/benefit law, retroactive cancellations (often called rescissions) are strictly restricted and often illegal unless specific legal criteria are met.
When a Retroactive Void Might Be Allowed
• Fraud or Intentional Misrepresentation: If the customer or beneficiary obtained the guarantee or policy by intentionally providing false information, hiding material facts, or committing fraud, the company may have the legal right to void it from the beginning (rescission).
• Explicit Contract Terms: If the original guarantee contract clearly outlines specific, legal conditions under which the company reserves the right to revoke or modify the agreement—and those conditions are met—a change might be valid, though usually prospective (moving forward) rather than retroactive.
• Notice Requirements: Where retroactive or early cancellations are permitted by law (such as specific insurance or financial rules), companies are almost always required to provide formal advance written notice (e.g., 30 days) rather than an instant backdated void
Edited to comply with forum rules.
@pcgs_social
Issa, is there any way PCGS would offer a crossover special for NGC coins in light of the new developments with the NGC guarantee? NGC is bleeding, it is time to go for the jugular and finish them off. Would you tell Stephanie they could use it as advertising to invade NGC’s market share of other collectibles as well?
There are straight grade TPG coins out there right now which have been doctored in some way. It's sad that the NGC reply could be along the lines of, "Looks like we missed that one. Sorry about that, but it was graded in 2015. You could try to sell it to another unsuspecting buyer. It's essentially a raw coin, but leave it in the NGC holder if you want. Doesn't really matter to us if our name is on it."
Deleted.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd be concerned by excessive hostility toward PCGS' main competitor:
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@MFeld there is nothing in their current posted terms suggesting it is not retroactive. Their terms state any coin graded >10 years ago isn’t covered. No mention of a start date of the policy, or coins being grandfathered into a permanent guarantee.
I heard from an NGC rep that the update is “not retroactive” and that they are “working towards having that updated ASAP”.
I don’t think we should just take their word for it- I’m not.
Head coin nerd @ Rarity7
Apparently by submitting under appearance review, NGC now claims you waive any claims and cannot arbitrate or sue them in court.
https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/ngc-guarantee/