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My experiences with the new eBay Authentication Guarantee and #5, my Trade $
JDark
Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
OK, admittedly I am 0 for 4 with my purchases making it through the new authentication process and PCGS. Here is #5. I am curious what members here think is my possible opportunity to turn the tide 
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Why are you buying uncertified Trade Dollars? They have been counterfeited in huge numbers since the mid-1990s.
Looks real, and covered with pvc and stains.
I don't care for the coin at all but I think it's legitimate and will likely pass the authentication screening.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
This is a prime example of why the authenticity program is a good thing. This isn't a 3 feedback seller, instead it's a high volume, popular seller who likely has no idea it's fake. Let's see if the authenticators catch it.
So far everything I have sold has went thru authentication ok, but I just sold a 2 1/2 gold indian, I think is ok, best I can tell, but am hoping it goes thru and its good to go, what is process and what does buyer and seller see as far as notification when one does not curious??
Images are not great but why circle the 7 and 5? There is nothing wrong that I can see (with the quality of images). Not a coin that appeals to me and the reverse looks a little mucked with. Maybe cleaned but appears real to me. If you can weigh it, that's a good thing to do.
keoj
It's a known transfer die counterfeit.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/2135/Counterfeit-Detection--1875-S-Trade-Dollar/
I believe it is a test of the ebay authentication service.
https://coinweek.com/counterfeit-coin-detection-1875-s-trade-dollar/
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OwZlYz2V4AM Sophie Lloyd, guitar shred cover Paranoid (Black Sabbath)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fbEW8BrNctI Haley Reinhart, Don't Know How To Love You Live (direct to record)
RLJ 1958 - 2023
The idea is to go 5-0 , not 0 for 5. I never had a mentor, either. And the more I read about your experiences , the more I think people will run away from the hobby. I know I wouldn’t want to delve , at that point. Or: are you actively buying fakes to weed out the market ? In which case; thank you. That’s an expensive endeavor.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody and be perfect !
Thank you for that link; I hadn't seen the Coin Week article.
I agree with @TwoSides2aCoin that the goal should be 5-0 -- meaning you purchased 5 fakes, and all 5 got caught by the Authenticity Guarantee process. But my take is people should feel more comfortable knowing that eBay (PCGS) has their back by having these coins verified for the buyer.
Glass half full or half empty? Could be 5-0 in my world. No intent to have folks "run away from the hobby" but would rather see informed folks not make major mistakes...
If one passes the new authentication review, there is still the eBay general guarantee or PayPal. I am confident it won't cost me much to "test the service" and write about the results.
@JDark, kudos to you! and thanks for spreading the word. It very scary when a big name dealer passes fakes (unknowing I'm sure)
I'm not fully convinced this is a counterfeit. Other than the potential issues on the date (of which it's difficult to discern if the die lump on the top of 7 is there), I don't see any of the other markers from the NGC website.
I am open to being wrong but I think this is a heavily messed with but ultimately genuine coin.
Here are full resolution pictures.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/137835743241
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
This coin appears to be die marriage JK-12 from @keoj 's book (obverse 9, reverse H).
@keoj - If you want me to take down the screenshots of the die marriage, please let me know.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Lermish,
No problem! It could be that Die 9 might have been used at the original die transfer source. The die lines to the left of top segment of the cotton bale are a good match but the lines on the lower segments are not. With respect to he die cracks, the picture is just not that good. The bump in the top segment of numeral 7 is NOT a good tell, many T$ 7's have that bump. Is weighing this coin out of the question? I'm not making a call on this coin....not for me. I've made many mistakes and pointed out to PCGS at least 5 coins in PCGS holders that were not authentic. They can be very tricky.
keoj
From my knowledge of the authentication service thus far, I am guessing that PCGS will NOT catch the counterfeit. Although it could go either way.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
The denticles seem off and the coin doesn’t look like it ever had luster
In looking at some better images that Lermish sent me, the die cracks on the reverse are dead nuts correct for Reverse Die H (which is married to Obverse Die 9.....JK-12 is the marriage).
So IMO this is either a JK-12 die transfer or a somewhat mucked authentic coin. Here is a good image of the reverse....die cracks preceding U and N in "UNITED", die lump I in "IN" and dies crack connecting S and O of "STATES" and "OF" match the coin presented. Many other die cracks are missing which is possibly a Late Die State issue.
The die cracks on the obverse are missing (could be a LDS issue) the bale die lines are a good match.
Still undetermined from my perspective. Not a slam duck fake from the images and info provided. Obverse and reverse are okay on die legitimacy.
Weigh the coin.
keoj
It's possible to be a counterfeit and still have the correct weight. Plus I don't think anyone reading this can weigh the coin as it's with the authenticators at PCGS.
I still think it's counterfeit as no two coins can have the exact same contact marks. As some have said, it has been messed with. This would not be uncommon for a counterfeiter and was likely done to better conceal their work.
If it does slip through the authentication process and is deemed genuine, I wouldn't call that a complete failure for the program though. PCGS acting as the authenticator will certainly miss counterfeits at some point, just as they have missed counterfeits as a grading service. No one is perfect. The authenticity program can only cut down on counterfeits. There is no way to ever catch 100 percent of those that run through the new system.
Please post the outcome,!
. I am on the fence on this coin. It is very hard to copy bie cracks during die transfer (but not impossible). PCGS with do the right thing once they the coin in hand. Nothing that a good scope, scale and XRF gun can't solve.
keoj
Thanks!!!!
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Nice work.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
They also apparently kill the listings...
👍
Thanks for posting this. I'm very happy to see that they got it right.
Does anyone here know how to "Report an Item"? They used to have a button to do that -- but I can't seem to find it anymore.
It's pinned at the top of the US coins page here; https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1116888/how-to-report-an-ebay-counterfeit-coin-2025#latest thanks to @yosclimber .
But for some reason I don't see that button ==> (?) Do you still see that button?
It is a question mark now:
Oh wow My BAD -- I was looking for it as part of the actual listing -- but instead it is part of the page navigation (it hovers over the listing page - not part of the listing page). Thank you
One more comment about the Bay authenticity guarantee program- I received my full price I paid immediately when it failed.
That guarantee to my eyes is better than language in a TPG's AG: