@Darin said:
Will Clark had an OBP of .418 in his final season at age 36 and career .384 OBP. 137 career OPS+
He retired early to help his wife take care of their special needs boy and got penalized for not playing out his old man years because if he had it would have really boosted his career numbers even if they were average seasons.
Would have been a no doubt’er if he played to age 40
i agree about Clark. very very good/great player. the only thing we didnt see were his old man years.
should be a HOFer. and i didnt know that about the royals. what awesome corners they could have had!
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@Darin said:
Will Clark had an OBP of .418 in his final season at age 36 and career .384 OBP. 137 career OPS+
He retired early to help his wife take care of their special needs boy and got penalized for not playing out his old man years because if he had it would have really boosted his career numbers even if they were average seasons.
Would have been a no doubt’er if he played to age 40
i agree about Clark. very very good/great player. the only thing we didnt see were his old man years.
should be a HOFer. and i didnt know that about the royals. what awesome corners they could have had!
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Problem with Palmeiro is the steroid allegations. Juan Gonzalez had a nice career, but just the mention of steroids is like a brick wall...
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's, Sosa's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
"Let me start by telling you this: I have never recolored 1987 Donruss. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The allegations by Mr. Orlando's staff are completely false"
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
@ArtVandelay said:
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
I like this take on Torre. Definitley under the radar as a player.
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
"Im only here to talk about the future"
Somehow McGuire dbaggery is less than the others but that does not say much.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
There are several under-appreciated players throughout the history of MLB. And while this is unfortunate, the benefit is that there are several Topps and Bowman cards, including others... that remain affordable whereby a representative card collection of MLB can be assembled. It really is amazing what can be found and how certain cards are valued.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
@detroitfan2 said:
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
He was very much appreciated in the 1990's not so much since then. He's very visible too...
I will say this; his 1990 Leaf Card PSA10 if nicely centered commands ~$350 even though there is seemingly an endless supply. That is a testament to his having at least a decent amount of popularity. When it plummeted from it's pandemic high ~$600 down below $100 a few years back I picked up an extra for $95.
The market wants what the market wants, logic need not factor in.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
These discussions always align with pricing in the end and using the OP's example, why don't Delgado cards rival Stargell in price? Of course, different era and we all know that older cards benefitted greatly from the lack of care and attention to keeping them as pristine future collectibles. Even with reduced production of certain cards, that seems to matter much less now. I just won a Bert Blyleven 2000s insert /10 for under $5. Why, there are only 10 copies of this card in the world AND he is a HOFer, right? Despite being similar, Delgado clearly doesn't have the following that Stargell did.
I appreciate being able to find bargains on players who are "under valued/under appreciated" because I am obtaining them to collect them. Price is and always has been secondary to me, other than the reality of needing to have enough money to afford/buy what I want.
I also collect a perfect example of a player who was once thought to be a sure shot HOFer and is still not and although popular in the past, doesn't carry that same collectibility now, Steve Garvey. This has allowed me to collect his stuff comfortably and not usually have to worry about things that Griffey, Mantle, Ripken, Bonds and similar collectors deal with, extremely high competition and costs.
I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
Comments
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Problem with Palmeiro is the steroid allegations. Juan Gonzalez had a nice career, but just the mention of steroids is like a brick wall...
Topps Desert Shield
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's, Sosa's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
"Let me start by telling you this: I have never recolored 1987 Donruss. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The allegations by Mr. Orlando's staff are completely false"
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
I like this take on Torre. Definitley under the radar as a player.
"Im only here to talk about the future"
Somehow McGuire dbaggery is less than the others but that does not say much.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
The first card I ever sent to SGC for grading was his 1992 Bowman. A LONG time ago. Came back 96/9 Mint. LOVE that card so much.
There are several under-appreciated players throughout the history of MLB. And while this is unfortunate, the benefit is that there are several Topps and Bowman cards, including others... that remain affordable whereby a representative card collection of MLB can be assembled. It really is amazing what can be found and how certain cards are valued.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
Nice article. Good responses.
He was very much appreciated in the 1990's not so much since then. He's very visible too...
I will say this; his 1990 Leaf Card PSA10 if nicely centered commands ~$350 even though there is seemingly an endless supply. That is a testament to his having at least a decent amount of popularity. When it plummeted from it's pandemic high ~$600 down below $100 a few years back I picked up an extra for $95.
The market wants what the market wants, logic need not factor in.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
These discussions always align with pricing in the end and using the OP's example, why don't Delgado cards rival Stargell in price? Of course, different era and we all know that older cards benefitted greatly from the lack of care and attention to keeping them as pristine future collectibles. Even with reduced production of certain cards, that seems to matter much less now. I just won a Bert Blyleven 2000s insert /10 for under $5. Why, there are only 10 copies of this card in the world AND he is a HOFer, right? Despite being similar, Delgado clearly doesn't have the following that Stargell did.
I appreciate being able to find bargains on players who are "under valued/under appreciated" because I am obtaining them to collect them. Price is and always has been secondary to me, other than the reality of needing to have enough money to afford/buy what I want.
I also collect a perfect example of a player who was once thought to be a sure shot HOFer and is still not and although popular in the past, doesn't carry that same collectibility now, Steve Garvey. This has allowed me to collect his stuff comfortably and not usually have to worry about things that Griffey, Mantle, Ripken, Bonds and similar collectors deal with, extremely high competition and costs.