@Darin said:
Will Clark had an OBP of .418 in his final season at age 36 and career .384 OBP. 137 career OPS+
He retired early to help his wife take care of their special needs boy and got penalized for not playing out his old man years because if he had it would have really boosted his career numbers even if they were average seasons.
Would have been a no doubt’er if he played to age 40
i agree about Clark. very very good/great player. the only thing we didnt see were his old man years.
should be a HOFer. and i didnt know that about the royals. what awesome corners they could have had!
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@Darin said:
Will Clark had an OBP of .418 in his final season at age 36 and career .384 OBP. 137 career OPS+
He retired early to help his wife take care of their special needs boy and got penalized for not playing out his old man years because if he had it would have really boosted his career numbers even if they were average seasons.
Would have been a no doubt’er if he played to age 40
i agree about Clark. very very good/great player. the only thing we didnt see were his old man years.
should be a HOFer. and i didnt know that about the royals. what awesome corners they could have had!
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Problem with Palmeiro is the steroid allegations. Juan Gonzalez had a nice career, but just the mention of steroids is like a brick wall...
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's, Sosa's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
"Let me start by telling you this: I have never recolored 1987 Donruss. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The allegations by Mr. Orlando's staff are completely false"
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
@ArtVandelay said:
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
I like this take on Torre. Definitley under the radar as a player.
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
"Im only here to talk about the future"
Somehow McGuire dbaggery is less than the others but that does not say much.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
There are several under-appreciated players throughout the history of MLB. And while this is unfortunate, the benefit is that there are several Topps and Bowman cards, including others... that remain affordable whereby a representative card collection of MLB can be assembled. It really is amazing what can be found and how certain cards are valued.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
@detroitfan2 said:
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
He was very much appreciated in the 1990's not so much since then. He's very visible too...
I will say this; his 1990 Leaf Card PSA10 if nicely centered commands ~$350 even though there is seemingly an endless supply. That is a testament to his having at least a decent amount of popularity. When it plummeted from it's pandemic high ~$600 down below $100 a few years back I picked up an extra for $95.
The market wants what the market wants, logic need not factor in.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
These discussions always align with pricing in the end and using the OP's example, why don't Delgado cards rival Stargell in price? Of course, different era and we all know that older cards benefitted greatly from the lack of care and attention to keeping them as pristine future collectibles. Even with reduced production of certain cards, that seems to matter much less now. I just won a Bert Blyleven 2000s insert /10 for under $5. Why, there are only 10 copies of this card in the world AND he is a HOFer, right? Despite being similar, Delgado clearly doesn't have the following that Stargell did.
I appreciate being able to find bargains on players who are "under valued/under appreciated" because I am obtaining them to collect them. Price is and always has been secondary to me, other than the reality of needing to have enough money to afford/buy what I want.
I also collect a perfect example of a player who was once thought to be a sure shot HOFer and is still not and although popular in the past, doesn't carry that same collectibility now, Steve Garvey. This has allowed me to collect his stuff comfortably and not usually have to worry about things that Griffey, Mantle, Ripken, Bonds and similar collectors deal with, extremely high competition and costs.
I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
I thought it might be fun to select a line up by position of players whom I see as being underrated and underappreciated. I limited the time frame from the 1930 to around the early/mid 1980s. I have doubts whether any of these guys will ever be inducted into the HOF, but they were outstanding and made significant contributions to their respective teams and how MLB progressed over the years. And in this selection below, I fully acknowledge and appreciate that there are other players worthy of the spotlight.
Catcher - Walker Cooper with a close second to Smokey Burgess
1B- Mickey Vernon
2B- Bobby Grich
3B- Stan Hack
SS- Vernon Stephens
LF- Andy Pafko with a close second to Frank Howard
CF- Reggie Smith
RF- Rocky Colavito
Pitchers- In no particular order and a starting rotation of 4 were selected
Tommy Bridges
Lon Warneke
Wes Ferrell
Luis Tiant
As for cards... The 1936 National Chicle Fine Pen set offers 120 cards with some excellent images with 3 or 4 players listed above that are part of the set... as I write this, I just do not recall if Lon Warneke is in the set.
Stan Hack... perhaps one of the most underrated Third Basement of any era...
A really good action shot of a Depression Era fan favorite in Detroit
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
El Presidente, El perfecto was the call when he threw his no-no as an Expo. Fantastic player.
@emar said:
Dennis Martinez underappreciated for his longevity, 23-year career.
Age 33-42, ten years, 129-83 record & 1150 SO with 51 complete games over that time period.
Age 37 lead the league in ERA (.239), complete games (9), & shutouts (5)
Kudos El Presidente
One of my favorite players to bring up in discussions like these is Cecil Travis.
Like Lefty O'Doul, his greatness goes above and beyond the playing field. Cecil played Shortstop and Third Base for the Washington Senators from 1933 to 1947. However, this is quite deceptive, as it might indicate he had a lengthy 15-year career. In 1933, he entered the league at just 19 years old. By 1941, at just age 27, he already had 1370 career hits, a career .327 batting average, and was one of the best defensive players in the league. He was just entering his peak, coming off hitting a career-high .359 with 218 hits in 1941 when he enlisted in the military for WW2.
During WW2, he fought in some of the most challenging battles of World War 2 including the Battle of the Bulge, in which he nearly lost both of his feet due to severe frostbite. He received a Bronze Star for his nearly 4 years of service. By the time he came back in late 1945, the years in battle during WW2 had taken their toll, and he had problems even running well. He attempted to make a comeback, but by early 1947 it was clear he physically could no longer play the game he loved.
Why there is no place in the Hall of Fame for Cecil Travis baffles me.
Washington had some players that have been and mostly continue to be overlooked from this time period- Certainly Joe Cronin and Goose Goslin get credit as both are in the HOF and rightly so. And while Cecil Travis deserves more recognition, so does "Buddy" Lewis who also had an excellent shot at the HOF had it not been for his wartime service. George Case and "Buddy" Myers were solid players as well. Ossie Bluege had an excellent career and after his last season as a player, he went on to be the manager in Washington during the war- And they finished second in 1943 and 45. And then there was Dutch Leonard... a terrific pitcher that made the best of what there was.
I have a team autographed ball that features all of the players above including Cecil Travis and Mickey Vernon. This is likely the most underappreciated MLB artifact in my collection.
And Cecil Travis, Ozzie Bluege and "Buddy" Myers are players featured in the 1936 Chicle fine pen set.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Those Senators teams were stacked with great players.
Buddy Lewis is another player whose potential HoF career was interrupted by WW2. He came up at 18 in 1935, and by the end of his 1941 season (still only 24), he already had accumulated 1,112 hits (10th highest ever for players under 25) with a career .304 average. He was still a few years away from even entering his prime.
He flew 500+ missions during WW2 earning a Flying Cross. After 4 years of military service, he did return and played well. It was clear, though, that he was no longer the player he once was, even at only 28.
Both Buddy Myer and Mickey Vernon had stellar careers, and both should receive much closer attention. Myer's career seems better than some second basemen already in the hall of fame.
Should have included Joe Kuher... He was the first baseman for the Senators during the '33 season and returned after playing with the White Sox roughly during the 1937-42 time frame.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Comments
If Clark gets in so should Palmeiro.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Problem with Palmeiro is the steroid allegations. Juan Gonzalez had a nice career, but just the mention of steroids is like a brick wall...
Topps Desert Shield
This is the egg-in-your-face moment that always comes to mind with Palmeiro.
Dale Murphy is the most interesting one to discuss. He was basically the 1980s Mike Trout. If you compare his MVP seasons to Trout's, they are nearly identical. He had 5 Gold Gloves in center field. Of course, the injuries did him in at age 32, but he had a 9-year peak that definitely should push him through.
Mattingly, his peak was much shorter, so I am less inclined to put him in. His combined managerial and player career might help.
Joe Torre is a criminally underrated player. He is in the HoF as a coach but not as a player. He played nearly 1500 games at catcher and third base and was a solid Gold Glove winning defensive player. He was a career .297 hitter with 2300+ hits, 250+ home runs, and nearly 1200 rbis. He was an MVP, won a batting title, and a 9x All-Star.
It's over 20 years, Palmeiro's, Sosa's and McGwire's complete and utter dbagerry during those proceedings replete in their 15k Suits has nowhere near been forgotten. Nor should it!
IMHO they should not even be allowed as visitors to the hall.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
"Let me start by telling you this: I have never recolored 1987 Donruss. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never. The allegations by Mr. Orlando's staff are completely false"
Maybe it's my soft spot for McGwire, but his performance was less agregious than Palmiero's and Sosa's. I don't recall Mac flat out lying or pretending not to understand/speak English.
I like this take on Torre. Definitley under the radar as a player.
"Im only here to talk about the future"
Somehow McGuire dbaggery is less than the others but that does not say much.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
The first card I ever sent to SGC for grading was his 1992 Bowman. A LONG time ago. Came back 96/9 Mint. LOVE that card so much.
There are several under-appreciated players throughout the history of MLB. And while this is unfortunate, the benefit is that there are several Topps and Bowman cards, including others... that remain affordable whereby a representative card collection of MLB can be assembled. It really is amazing what can be found and how certain cards are valued.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I know he’s in the HOF but I feel like Frank Thomas is not appreciated for his hitting exploits. His 1991-1997 seasons were dominant and although his average fell off a bit in his later years, he had 39 / 26 HR and 114 / 95 RBIs 2 of his last 3 seasons.
Nice article. Good responses.
He was very much appreciated in the 1990's not so much since then. He's very visible too...
I will say this; his 1990 Leaf Card PSA10 if nicely centered commands ~$350 even though there is seemingly an endless supply. That is a testament to his having at least a decent amount of popularity. When it plummeted from it's pandemic high ~$600 down below $100 a few years back I picked up an extra for $95.
The market wants what the market wants, logic need not factor in.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
These discussions always align with pricing in the end and using the OP's example, why don't Delgado cards rival Stargell in price? Of course, different era and we all know that older cards benefitted greatly from the lack of care and attention to keeping them as pristine future collectibles. Even with reduced production of certain cards, that seems to matter much less now. I just won a Bert Blyleven 2000s insert /10 for under $5. Why, there are only 10 copies of this card in the world AND he is a HOFer, right? Despite being similar, Delgado clearly doesn't have the following that Stargell did.
I appreciate being able to find bargains on players who are "under valued/under appreciated" because I am obtaining them to collect them. Price is and always has been secondary to me, other than the reality of needing to have enough money to afford/buy what I want.
I also collect a perfect example of a player who was once thought to be a sure shot HOFer and is still not and although popular in the past, doesn't carry that same collectibility now, Steve Garvey. This has allowed me to collect his stuff comfortably and not usually have to worry about things that Griffey, Mantle, Ripken, Bonds and similar collectors deal with, extremely high competition and costs.
I thought it might be fun to select a line up by position of players whom I see as being underrated and underappreciated. I limited the time frame from the 1930 to around the early/mid 1980s. I have doubts whether any of these guys will ever be inducted into the HOF, but they were outstanding and made significant contributions to their respective teams and how MLB progressed over the years. And in this selection below, I fully acknowledge and appreciate that there are other players worthy of the spotlight.
Catcher - Walker Cooper with a close second to Smokey Burgess
1B- Mickey Vernon
2B- Bobby Grich
3B- Stan Hack
SS- Vernon Stephens
LF- Andy Pafko with a close second to Frank Howard
CF- Reggie Smith
RF- Rocky Colavito
Pitchers- In no particular order and a starting rotation of 4 were selected
Tommy Bridges
Lon Warneke
Wes Ferrell
Luis Tiant
As for cards... The 1936 National Chicle Fine Pen set offers 120 cards with some excellent images with 3 or 4 players listed above that are part of the set... as I write this, I just do not recall if Lon Warneke is in the set.
Stan Hack... perhaps one of the most underrated Third Basement of any era...
A really good action shot of a Depression Era fan favorite in Detroit
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
El Presidente, El perfecto was the call when he threw his no-no as an Expo. Fantastic player.
One of my favorite players to bring up in discussions like these is Cecil Travis.
Like Lefty O'Doul, his greatness goes above and beyond the playing field. Cecil played Shortstop and Third Base for the Washington Senators from 1933 to 1947. However, this is quite deceptive, as it might indicate he had a lengthy 15-year career. In 1933, he entered the league at just 19 years old. By 1941, at just age 27, he already had 1370 career hits, a career .327 batting average, and was one of the best defensive players in the league. He was just entering his peak, coming off hitting a career-high .359 with 218 hits in 1941 when he enlisted in the military for WW2.
During WW2, he fought in some of the most challenging battles of World War 2 including the Battle of the Bulge, in which he nearly lost both of his feet due to severe frostbite. He received a Bronze Star for his nearly 4 years of service. By the time he came back in late 1945, the years in battle during WW2 had taken their toll, and he had problems even running well. He attempted to make a comeback, but by early 1947 it was clear he physically could no longer play the game he loved.
Why there is no place in the Hall of Fame for Cecil Travis baffles me.
Washington had some players that have been and mostly continue to be overlooked from this time period- Certainly Joe Cronin and Goose Goslin get credit as both are in the HOF and rightly so. And while Cecil Travis deserves more recognition, so does "Buddy" Lewis who also had an excellent shot at the HOF had it not been for his wartime service. George Case and "Buddy" Myers were solid players as well. Ossie Bluege had an excellent career and after his last season as a player, he went on to be the manager in Washington during the war- And they finished second in 1943 and 45. And then there was Dutch Leonard... a terrific pitcher that made the best of what there was.
I have a team autographed ball that features all of the players above including Cecil Travis and Mickey Vernon. This is likely the most underappreciated MLB artifact in my collection.
And Cecil Travis, Ozzie Bluege and "Buddy" Myers are players featured in the 1936 Chicle fine pen set.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Those Senators teams were stacked with great players.
Buddy Lewis is another player whose potential HoF career was interrupted by WW2. He came up at 18 in 1935, and by the end of his 1941 season (still only 24), he already had accumulated 1,112 hits (10th highest ever for players under 25) with a career .304 average. He was still a few years away from even entering his prime.
He flew 500+ missions during WW2 earning a Flying Cross. After 4 years of military service, he did return and played well. It was clear, though, that he was no longer the player he once was, even at only 28.
Both Buddy Myer and Mickey Vernon had stellar careers, and both should receive much closer attention. Myer's career seems better than some second basemen already in the hall of fame.
Should have included Joe Kuher... He was the first baseman for the Senators during the '33 season and returned after playing with the White Sox roughly during the 1937-42 time frame.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.