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Is this an O or a D?
dval2929
Posts: 46 ✭✭
So, I'm in a bit of a pickle here. I cracked out a straight-graded 1909-O from NGC and sent it to PCGS. It just arrived at PCGS and the Receiving Specialist sent me the following email: "unfortunately there is an issue we need to resolve before we can process your order. You listed line #1 as a 1909-O, however, we received a 1909-D."
I politely asked if they can get a second opinion. I'm not sure how their system works and if a grader adjudicated this already or if there is room for reconsideration. Clearly it's a big problem for me if my O is a D 
What do you all think? I know the mintmark is very weak here, but the upper left seems to indicate O to me.
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It kinda looks like an O. Its hard to tell ? I dunno
That is a big pickle.
I guess you had your reasons for cracking out a straight grade 1909-O half eagle that appears to be rather high grade and that might have a very weak mintmark, but that was gutsy. I wish you were able to supply better images, but we are where we are. My guess is that the central portion appears more like the interior of a D than it does of an O.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The photos are a little dark, but I can see what PCGS said – from 1215 to about 3 o’clock it appears to be damaged. It’s not part of a smooth “O”,IMO.
There’s also a possibility that someone tried to alter the D into an O
Always show the entire coin, not just the spot you think is interesting.
I suggest sending the coin back to NGC ,along with their grading label (and if you have one, a picture of the previously holdered coin).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Luckily I hung on to the holder/label and it has the NGC PhotoVision so if they were inclined they can verify without a doubt it's the same coin
Does anyone know the PCGS mechanics here? Like I assume the Receiving Specialist makes the call here and not a grader? I asked for a grader to give a second opinion, not sure if that's possible. Obviously if a PCGS grader makes the call with the coin in-hand there is nothing more to say really. I assume (but don't know for sure) that the receivers are very skilled but not quite graders with all the grading apparatus.
Always good to get your heart pumping on a Tuesday! Yes, it's a 5-figure swing from an O to D here. So big pickle is right.
Hopefully that will be enough to get the coin re-holdered, though their grading guarantee was voided when the coin was removed from the holder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I don’t want to give you false hope but it looks like an O to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with @MFeld that the NGC PhotoVision images appear to show a 1909-O and will add that these were the images that would have been better to look at from the beginning. Good luck!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Looking at CoinFacts the O mint appears to be much more open on the inside than the D.
The OP coin would seem to be an altered D or a significantly damaged O.
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
With the complete photo of the reverse, as I enlarge it, I now tend to think there’s a good possibility. It’s just a damaged O and not a altered
D.
It almost looks hexagonal with the one side smudged out. That's a tough one even with the comparison images.
It looks like other Os I've seen, but that mintmark is often disappointing when you want the one $5 Indian from New Orleans to really have a bold standout O.
I think a strong-O coin should have a significant premium to the typical weak-O.
How many die pairs struck the 1909-O ?
Perhaps there is a small die scratch somewhere that would confirm a D or O mint ?
I once looked at a certified 1909-O (strong O) that had significant die polishing on the grooves around the tail feathers.
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Because of the curve at the top left of the mintmark, looks like an O to me.
Pete
Hi @pcgs_social not sure if you can shed any light on this process.
Essentially I submitted what I believe to be (and NGC graded as) a 1909-O.
I got an email from PCGS receiving team saying problem with the order, "it's not an o, it's a d" and they crossed out the O on my form and added a D and told me it would be graded as a d.
I'm not sure exactly how your process works. I will of course accept whatever the grader(s) decide, but I want it to get a fair shot as an "O" and not just stuck as a "D" based on this initial decision. I'm not sure how much weight is given to this initial categorization. I wish if they were unsure they just said "unsure" and let the grader decide, but they are saying very firmly it "is" a D, without question. As you can see above many/most people here think it's an O.
Any help or direction would be appreciated, thank you!
"Dear Valued PCGS Customer,
We have received your order, submission #403..., unfortunately there is an issue we need to resolve before we can process your order.
You listed line #1 as a 1909-O, however, we received a 1909-D
Please let me know if we have your permission to process your order with the coin we received."
This is the coin image in the PCGS website that is shown as an MS 62….and the markings are literally identical to your coin…which leads me to believe it is an O also. Even the 2 o’clock position shows the flat slant on the outside of the mintmark….as does yours. 🤔😉
I hope you get PCGS to recognize your coin as a 1909-O. If not, you may have to resubmit to NGC and then decide if you want to spend the money to cross to PCGS.
Thank you. My concern, which may be unfounded, is how the Receiving Department marking it as a D will affect it's adjudication in the grading room. If graders heavily scrutinize it and decide D, then that's that. But what I'm concerned about is that it is now "on the path" to a D and won't get proper scrutiny. But I'm openly guessing and don't really know the process.
As I mentioned to the PCGS rep above, I do wish they could have said, "Unsure mint" or "Questionable O" or something, rather than a firm, no room, "We received a D coin not an O coin" statement. Unless, in fact, the graders made that final determination already.
I personally don't know how the receiving room works. It's possible that there are errors all the time and the graders always correct, which is what I'm hoping for of course.
Thank you. I also have been reading that the D mintmark is usually closer to the rim of the coin often touching the rim, and the O is a bit further in, which further supports this being an O.
Don't assume that a decision by the graders on the mint mark is final and correct. Try to find and match up die markers. That would be definitive.
I just sent you a private message for some personal info! Talk to you soon!!
Isa (she/her)
Lead Moderator
Thank you, Isa!
That was a gutsy crackout! I think it will work out for you though... Good luck.
