What is the population of the 2007-P Washington Dollar Elongated Ray variety?

@CaptHenway.... No luck so far, been looking for one... even specifically asked for a bunch of dollar coins... Will keep searching. Cheers, RickO

I have two of them that came from @OAKSTAR . They are part of the NGC pop above.

@OAKTREE Is with just the P or on both the P & D?

@JWP said:
@CaptHenway Wow - very interesting recall of the small $ mint line. Just how did you remember all these small details? Thanks, a real great read.

And that's why @CaptHenway is the go-to guy! 👍🏻 👍🏻

@messydesk said:
There are also two that I've put a "WUFO-001" label on last August that were raw. I don't know if they still are. I haven't labeled any graded coins.

John- I was always a bit confused by John Wexler's unidentified (UFO) designator. But I give him credit for recognizing something was amiss with the coin.

Prior to Feb 15, 20122, I can tell you for a fact that this coin past through the hands and was examined by several well known attributers, names you would easily recognize. I guess for whatever reason at the time, the skill level, knowledge or willingness to put their reputations on the line just wasn't there. Until one man did step up.

Question: Do you have an on-line census or pop report on all the coins you have holdered? Thanks!

@OAKSTAR said:

@messydesk said:
There are also two that I've put a "WUFO-001" label on last August that were raw. I don't know if they still are. I haven't labeled any graded coins.

John- I was always a bit confused by John Wexler's unidentified (UFO) designator. But I give him credit for recognizing something was amiss with the coin.

Prior to Feb 15, 20122, I can tell you for a fact that this coin past through the hands and was examined by several well known attributers, names you would easily recognize. I guess for whatever reason at the time, the skill level, knowledge or willingness to put their reputations on the line just wasn't there. Until one man did step up.

Question: Do you have an on-line census or pop report on all the coins you have holdered? Thanks!

I don't have that, unfortunately. No time to set up something like that. I'll be labeling coin number 25000 this week. Number 24000 was back in March. My census reports will have a lot of sampling bias in them, as I don't always get random submissions. If you're interested in pops for a few varieties, I can look those up in my database and let you know. I don't have grades included, though.

UPDATE: If you haven't already seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNsCkyPIgo0

What is that second letter??

@Bodin said:

What is that second letter??

Snarky answer:
A "triple-u".

Real answer:
It's supposed to say "2007-P GW WUFO-1". Unfortunately, there isn't enough space for all that on my label. It's an inherent problem when lengthy varieties collide with lengthy date descriptors. I could fix this by reprinting labels using a different layout with a smaller font for this information for the few coins with this problem. Had it been on a John Adams (JA) dollar or were Wexler's last name Jones, this wouldn't have happened. I think an FS number would also fit, but barely.

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety? TPG pops are all <10 pieces each and I don't see any sales for this from a quick internet search (eBay/HA). I'd think recent ~$800 sales wouldve broken some of these loose from a bunch of treasure hunters tearing rolls apart. But it seems all we get are crickets. Are we possibly talking Cheerios-level scarcity?

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

@lsica said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety?

...

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

Was this a die or a hub change? Also how long does a "Golden" dollar die last until it's replaced? Thanks

Consensus is that it was a manually altered die. As for how many strikes from typical die, I'm going to guess 300,000, but that's a wet finger estimate. That info isn't in the Mint's annual report. Perhaps it's elsewhere.

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety? TPG pops are all <10 pieces each and I don't see any sales for this from a quick internet search (eBay/HA). I'd think recent ~$800 sales wouldve broken some of these loose from a bunch of treasure hunters tearing rolls apart. But it seems all we get are crickets. Are we possibly talking Cheerios-level scarcity?

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

John- What edition and volume would that be?

@messydesk said:

@OAKSTAR said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety? TPG pops are all <10 pieces each and I don't see any sales for this from a quick internet search (eBay/HA). I'd think recent ~$800 sales wouldve broken some of these loose from a bunch of treasure hunters tearing rolls apart. But it seems all we get are crickets. Are we possibly talking Cheerios-level scarcity?

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

John- What edition and volume would that be?

The next one. It has an FS number (FS-901) and has been listed greysheet.com. @JohnF is using the Greysheet to hot-foot newly granted FS numbers into the marketplace so that collectors don't have to wait years so their heirs can see them in the right volume of the CPG guide.

You sure are right about the years and the "next" one! Not getting the warm and fuzzies from John or Jeff about the CPG or Redbook but your point is well taken. This coin was scheduled and agreed upon between Bill and Dennis @Dentuck, to be included in the current issue of the CPG. Bill assigned (FS-C1-2007P-GW-901) to this coin. There was even discussions of featuring it on the front cover. For whatever reason, it was overlooked or fell through the cracks.

Besides being the only known variety in the Presidential series, this coin has been researched and documented much more then some varieties currently listed. The coin has been slabbed by ANACS, SEGS, NGC, ICG, CAC, PCGS and as you know VSS.

With that being said, I know John and Jeff's plates are full picking and choosing coins and space for publication.

@messydesk said:

@OAKSTAR said:

@messydesk said:

@OAKSTAR said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety? TPG pops are all <10 pieces each and I don't see any sales for this from a quick internet search (eBay/HA). I'd think recent ~$800 sales wouldve broken some of these loose from a bunch of treasure hunters tearing rolls apart. But it seems all we get are crickets. Are we possibly talking Cheerios-level scarcity?

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

John- What edition and volume would that be?

The next one. It has an FS number (FS-901) and has been listed greysheet.com. @JohnF is using the Greysheet to hot-foot newly granted FS numbers into the marketplace so that collectors don't have to wait years so their heirs can see them in the right volume of the CPG guide.

You sure are right about the years and the "next" one! Not getting the warm and fuzzies from John or Jeff about the CPG or Redbook but your point is well taken. This coin was scheduled and agreed upon between Bill and Dennis @Dentuck, to be included in the current issue of the CPG. Bill assigned (FS-C1-2007P-GW-901) to this coin. There was even discussions of featuring it on the front cover. For whatever reason, it was overlooked or fell through the cracks.

Besides being the only known variety in the Presidential series, this coin has been researched and documented much more then some varieties currently listed. The coin have been slabbed by ANACS, SEGS, NGC, ICG, CAC, PCGS and as you know VSS.

With that being said, I know John and Jeff's plates are full picking and choosing coins and space for publication.

The process for adding stuff to it is at least 30 years old, I'm guessing. The hobby doesn't move like it did in 1990. Data and expertise are more plentiful and more decentralized. I've spent some time thinking of how a "catalog of important varieties" could be maintained in a crowd-sourced manner, and that includes pricing. Gathering information could largely be replaced with others pushing information. Maybe I'll discuss with @JohnF sometime, perhaps at Central States if he's there.

So you're saying, somewhat similar to an internet search. I database or repository with an algorithm pushing and populating the subject matter/relevant information or "most discussed" to the top?

Are these being found in numismatic coins sold by the mint or coins released for circulation? It's been a long time but I know I have some sealed first day covers and maybe some rolls or mini bags, and am wondering if I should open them and look.

@Sanitarium_inmate2 said:
I too have a few unopened first day covers and maybe a roll or 2 left over from when I was buying and selling the MEL ones. I remember those old days were fun when those first came out. Me and my coworker had the second one on ebay after someone named Captain Ron put one on there.

Yep those were fun days.

I bought a couple thousand of the Washington first day covers from the mint and sold them on eBay. I got really tired of packing and shipping orders before and after work. I think they peaked at 40 or 50 per cover.

@tyler267 said:
Are these being found in numismatic coins sold by the mint or coins released for circulation? It's been a long time but I know I have some sealed first day covers and maybe some rolls or mini bags, and am wondering if I should open them and look.

Mostly in circulation but there were some mint and after market rolls like these.

As of 7 July 25 the TPG'er pop reports show the following:

ANACS: 12
PCGS: 15
NGC: 17
ICG: 2
VSS: 6
SEGS: 6
CAC: 9

As of 1 April 26 the TPG'er pop reports show the following:

ANACS: 14
PCGS: 15
NGC: 20
ICG: 2
VSS: 6
SEGS: 6
CAC: 11

CAC pop report.

@USSID18 said:
As of 22 Sept 26 the TPG'er pop reports show the following:

ANACS: 15
PCGS: 19
NGC: 20
ICG: 2
VSS: 6
SEGS: 6
CAC: 16

Interesting. Either these are truly rare or no one is paying attention to these.

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety?

...

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

Was this a die or a hub change? Also how long does a "Golden" dollar die last until it's replaced? Thanks

Consensus is that it was a manually altered die. As for how many strikes from typical die, I'm going to guess 300,000, but that's a wet finger estimate. That info isn't in the Mint's annual report. Perhaps it's elsewhere.

.

My opinion is that it was not intentionally done.
It is part of a class of die effects known as "tracks" or "tracers".
I believe they are formed during the automated die polishing process, where die polishing compound builds up in a recess of the die and is fed across the die face abrading it in a specific direction along a narrow path. The one ray happened to be at just the right angle for that to occur on that die.

.

@CaptHenway said:

@dcarr said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:

@messydesk said:

@lsica said:
How rare is this variety?

...

One die pair, but probably less than a full run from it, given the die was altered. It just got added to the CPG, so it's been under the radar for a while.

Was this a die or a hub change? Also how long does a "Golden" dollar die last until it's replaced? Thanks

Consensus is that it was a manually altered die. As for how many strikes from typical die, I'm going to guess 300,000, but that's a wet finger estimate. That info isn't in the Mint's annual report. Perhaps it's elsewhere.

.

My opinion is that it was not intentionally done.
It is part of a class of die effects known as "tracks" or "tracers".
I believe they are formed during the automated die polishing process, where die polishing compound builds up in a recess of the die and is fed across the die face abrading it in a specific direction along a narrow path. The one ray happened to be at just the right angle for that to occur on that die.

.

I politely disagree. Have you seen one? If I make it to the Denver show I will bring you one to look at.

Tom- I can send him a raw one for examination. He'll be able to examine one much better outside a slab.

If you wanta see one Dan, PM me.