@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
I kind of disagree with this. First, if you don't accept returns on eBay the buyer only has 3 days to file a “not as described” claim. Second, if you don't return the item your credit card might deny your dispute. Things changed a lot now for filing a dispute. it is not that easy to file a dispute with credit card any more. I bought some counterfeit coins on eBay because it takes time for PCGS to verify the authenticity, so I missed the time to file not as describe on eBay. I did file it on eBay anyway, it were declined/closed automatically after three days as expected. Then I called eBay for help, eBay said nothing they can do about it. They told me to file with credit card and also told me to report the seller on eBay which I did. eBay closed the seller account, that's about it, eBay did not do anything to help me to get the refund. Because it is not over 60 days so I still able to file with credit card. However, I can't file online because one of the question is did you return the item, if your answer is no then it said you can't file it. So I need to call in order for me to file it. I have a letter from PCGS stated coins are counterfeit but credit card denied my dispute without giving me any reasons. The denial letter just said it is not a billing error based on the evident. I wrote a letter asked for appeal and it reopened again. Then credit card asked me to provide invoice and prove of seller declined the return which I did provide all of that including PCGS letter that stated coins are counterfeit. Then two days ago credit card denied some of the disputes. I called again asked for the reasons for denial. The rep. did not tell me any reason, she told me the seller said 1, I left a positive feedback, 2. I still has the coins. So I emailed and mailed letter to the credit card yesterday. Here is my rebuttal to the seller reasons, "Merchant claim: “Customer left positive feedback.”
I did not know at the time that the coins were counterfeit. It is normal courtesy to leave positive feedback when an item initially appears as purchased. Importantly, once I learned the coins were counterfeit, I took action by requesting a return and disputing the transactions. Positive feedback does not negate the misrepresentation/counterfeit issue, and it does not change the fact that the seller refused the return and provided no return label or return address.
Merchant claim: “Coins are still in the customer’s possession.”
I have the coins because the seller refused my return request and did not provide the required return shipping information (no label and no return address). I cannot complete a return without the seller’s cooperation. If the seller provides a return label/address, I will ship the coins accordingly."
Plus, it is very hard to get to a live agent on eBay now, you need to bypast AI first before you can get to the live agent (good luck with that). I might have to end up file in court for this.
Is eBay already started this policy yet or it will apply to all the sellers? I just sold a coin but it did not ask me to send to PCGS or any eBay address.
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
It's really no different than selling an item internationally. You don't ship it to the sellers address, there's a transfer station that you mail it to and from there Ebay takes care of all necessary documentation then forwards the package to the buyer. The best thing about that is once the package is received by Ebay, you're no longer responsible for loss or damage to the package.
After all these years my wife still thinks I'm sexy. Every time I walk by she says "What An Ass"
Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return is requested within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and cannot be returned.
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
I kind of disagree with this. First, if you don't accept returns on eBay the buyer only has 3 days to file a “not as described” claim. Second, if you don't return the item your credit card might deny your dispute. Things changed a lot now for filing a dispute. it is not that easy to file a dispute with credit card any more. I bought some counterfeit coins on eBay because it takes time for PCGS to verify the authenticity, so I missed the time to file not as describe on eBay. I did file it on eBay anyway, it were declined/closed automatically after three days as expected. Then I called eBay for help, eBay said nothing they can do about it. They told me to file with credit card and also told me to report the seller on eBay which I did. eBay closed the seller account, that's about it, eBay did not do anything to help me to get the refund. Because it is not over 60 days so I still able to file with credit card. However, I can't file online because one of the question is did you return the item, if your answer is no then it said you can't file it. So I need to call in order for me to file it. I have a letter from PCGS stated coins are counterfeit but credit card denied my dispute without giving me any reasons. The denial letter just said it is not a billing error based on the evident. I wrote a letter asked for appeal and it reopened again. Then credit card asked me to provide invoice and prove of seller declined the return which I did provide all of that including PCGS letter that stated coins are counterfeit. Then two days ago credit card denied some of the disputes. I called again asked for the reasons for denial. The rep. did not tell me any reason, she told me the seller said 1, I left a positive feedback, 2. I still has the coins. So I emailed and mailed letter to the credit card yesterday. Here is my rebuttal to the seller reasons, "Merchant claim: “Customer left positive feedback.”
I did not know at the time that the coins were counterfeit. It is normal courtesy to leave positive feedback when an item initially appears as purchased. Importantly, once I learned the coins were counterfeit, I took action by requesting a return and disputing the transactions. Positive feedback does not negate the misrepresentation/counterfeit issue, and it does not change the fact that the seller refused the return and provided no return label or return address.
Merchant claim: “Coins are still in the customer’s possession.”
I have the coins because the seller refused my return request and did not provide the required return shipping information (no label and no return address). I cannot complete a return without the seller’s cooperation. If the seller provides a return label/address, I will ship the coins accordingly."
Plus, it is very hard to get to a live agent on eBay now, you need to bypast AI first before you can get to the live agent (good luck with that). I might have to end up file in court for this.
You can disagree all you want, it's simply not true.
CC companies will request return, but they do not track or verify that the return happens. They just pay.
I had an. Ebay return FIVE MONTHS after delivery for a silver kilo. Yes, they could not file for an eBay return so they issued a charge back. Some CC's allow 18 months, while almost all allow 6 months. I tried to fight the return, eBay told me to pay it and told me to be glad that the customer had shipped the coin (although it could have been an empty box for all I knew) because "half the time" (eBay's words) the client does not so anything back and the CC does not track or verify compliance.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@FredS said:
Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return is requested within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and cannot be returned.
Again, they can't file an eBay return but they can file a PayPal return or CC return or both.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
Maybe you should read my post before you type. Ebay cannot and will not prevent an CC or PayPal charge back. I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN.
Even if you are past the eBay window, eBay gets out of the way of all CC or PayPal charge backs. That's why i said you have "as many as" 3 return opportunities.
I had a return after FIVE MONTHS. Ebay wouldn't allow it, the transacting wasn't even available on ebay actor. But, the CC company did. It took weeks after it was filed.
I love ebay. I defend ebay all the time. Ask anyone. But "no returns" is an ebay fiction.
Your link references "eBay Global Shipping", that's a different program from "eBay International Shipping". With eBay International Shipping, once the item is received by the eBay shipping facility, they accept responsibility for the transaction from there. From eBay:
When you ship internationally using eBay International Shipping, you're responsible for sending the item your buyer purchased safely to the domestic shipping hub. If a buyer reports that an item was lost or damaged during international shipping or it is damaged at the hub, we'll work with the buyer to resolve the issue. You're protected from:
-The obligation to refund the buyer
-eBay Money Back Guarantee cases -Payment disputes
-Open 'Not as described' returns in your service metrics
-Negative or neutral feedback related to item handling during international shipping
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
Maybe you should read my post before you type. Ebay cannot and will not prevent an CC or PayPal charge back. I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN.
Even if you are past the eBay window, eBay gets out of the way of all CC or PayPal charge backs. That's why i said you have "as many as" 3 return opportunities.
I had a return after FIVE MONTHS. Ebay wouldn't allow it, the transacting wasn't even available on ebay actor. But, the CC company did. It took weeks after it was filed.
I love ebay. I defend ebay all the time. Ask anyone. But "no returns" is an ebay fiction.
And, FWIW, eBay charged me $20 for the chargeback although I eventually got that refunded.
Not sure how they could possibly win a charge-back since PCGS sent them the authenticated coin, and the eBay terms say, SALE IS FINAL if you don't accept returns. I'll take my chances that I would win that one.
My point is that it will be nearly impossible to now return a coin, as a buyer, if you don't like it, after PCGS sends it to them. That will definitely hurt high end coin sales, because you always had that eBay buyer protection, and most buyers know that. It is now gone under this program, and perhaps the real reason eBay is doing this. Of course, some sellers will still offer returns, but that coins is going to be gone for a long time now, if it is returned!
Your link references "eBay Global Shipping", that's a different program from "eBay International Shipping". With eBay International Shipping, once the item is received by the eBay shipping facility, they accept responsibility for the transaction from there. From eBay:
When you ship internationally using eBay International Shipping, you're responsible for sending the item your buyer purchased safely to the domestic shipping hub. If a buyer reports that an item was lost or damaged during international shipping or it is damaged at the hub, we'll work with the buyer to resolve the issue. You're protected from:
-The obligation to refund the buyer
-eBay Money Back Guarantee cases -Payment disputes
-Open 'Not as described' returns in your service metrics
-Negative or neutral feedback related to item handling during international
That same language is on the eBay global shipping guarantees.
Look on ebay community pages for the many complaints about charge backs. Ebay global/international protects against disputes (chargebacks) related to shipping but not all charge backs.
Admittedly, the posted policies are not exactly clear.
@jmlanzaf said:
I see nothing about SNAD protection, only that they will handle logistics of a return
I had a $600 international sale where the buyer said the item was not as described and wanted to return it for a refund. eBay dealt with it somehow (they didn't tell me how) and I kept the sale.
edited to add...
From eBay International Shipping
Seller Terms & Conditions
International Returns.
To the extent permitted by applicable law, eBay may choose not to display the returns policy field of your listings to Buyers to comply with local regulations. For international returns your item will be returned to a third party service provider or liquidated and you will keep your sale.
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
Maybe you should read my post before you type. Ebay cannot and will not prevent an CC or PayPal charge back. I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN.
Even if you are past the eBay window, eBay gets out of the way of all CC or PayPal charge backs. That's why i said you have "as many as" 3 return opportunities.
I had a return after FIVE MONTHS. Ebay wouldn't allow it, the transacting wasn't even available on ebay actor. But, the CC company did. It took weeks after it was filed.
I love ebay. I defend ebay all the time. Ask anyone. But "no returns" is an ebay fiction.
And, FWIW, eBay charged me $20 for the chargeback although I eventually got that refunded.
Not sure how they could possibly win a charge-back since PCGS sent them the authenticated coin, and the eBay terms say, SALE IS FINAL if you don't accept returns. I'll take my chances that I would win that one.
My point is that it will be nearly impossible to now return a coin, as a buyer, if you don't like it, after PCGS sends it to them. That will definitely hurt high end coin sales, because you always had that eBay buyer protection, and most buyers know that. It is now gone under this program, and perhaps the real reason eBay is doing this. Of course, some sellers will still offer returns, but that coins is going to be gone for a long time now, if it is returned!
So, if i sell a raw coin as an UNC and PCGS determines it's a details coin, you are sure that a return won't be allowed or that eBay will refund the buyer themselves?
CC companies almost always side with the buyer, even if there isn't a clear problem with the item.
Maybe you're right and ebay will protect you. I'd love that. But if like to see evidence from the card or watch program.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@FredS said:
If you sell "no returns", no matter what, the buyer can't return it. I can see many sellers switching to that, and also, high end coin sales going down, since you will no longer be able to say "not as described".
The problem with that is, if the coin is not like the photo, and the authenticator thinks it is close enough, you are screwed for good.
For the seller, he is golden from the dreaded, "not as described".
I personally do not like the fact that someone is going to look at your images and decide if a coin is close enough, whether I am the buyer OR the seller.
The buyer can ALWAYS return it. No exceptions. You have as many as 3 opportunities if you pay using PayPal: ebay directly, PayPal, and the Credit Card company.
There is no such thing as "no returns" on ebay. (Unless you paid in person by cash or check.)
And, as a seller, you WANT returns on ebay. Ebay will require return and track it. The CC company will make no effort to track the return or mandate it.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
Maybe you should read my post before you type. Ebay cannot and will not prevent an CC or PayPal charge back. I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN.
Even if you are past the eBay window, eBay gets out of the way of all CC or PayPal charge backs. That's why i said you have "as many as" 3 return opportunities.
I had a return after FIVE MONTHS. Ebay wouldn't allow it, the transacting wasn't even available on ebay actor. But, the CC company did. It took weeks after it was filed.
I love ebay. I defend ebay all the time. Ask anyone. But "no returns" is an ebay fiction.
And, FWIW, eBay charged me $20 for the chargeback although I eventually got that refunded.
Not sure how they could possibly win a charge-back since PCGS sent them the authenticated coin, and the eBay terms say, SALE IS FINAL if you don't accept returns. I'll take my chances that I would win that one.
My point is that it will be nearly impossible to now return a coin, as a buyer, if you don't like it, after PCGS sends it to them. That will definitely hurt high end coin sales, because you always had that eBay buyer protection, and most buyers know that. It is now gone under this program, and perhaps the real reason eBay is doing this. Of course, some sellers will still offer returns, but that coins is going to be gone for a long time now, if it is returned!
This is the the part I am not buying. That PCGS will turn the coins around in a day or two?
Current turnaround times: Walkthrough service is a week, ($150 per coin) and Express is a month, ($70 per coin) Even though they are not grading these eBay items, how in the world will they authenticate/get out the door in a day or two? One week to get there, who knows how long PCGS will keep them, and another week back to the buyer. (One month total time would not surprise me at all) I hope I am wrong, but this sure feels like it is going to be a mess.
From eBay:
**What is the estimated delivery time for Authenticity Guarantee items?
**
The authenticator will inspect the item within one to two business days after receiving it. Once authenticated, it will be shipped directly to the buyer with four-day or less tracked delivery.
@FredS said:
This is the the part I am not buying. That PCGS will turn the coins around in a day or two?
Current turnaround times: Walkthrough service is a week, ($150 per coin) and Express is a month, ($70 per coin) Even though they are not grading these eBay items, how in the world will they authenticate/get out the door in a day or two? One week to get there, who knows how long PCGS will keep them, and another week back to the buyer. (One month total time would not surprise me at all) I hope I am wrong, but this sure feels like it is going to be a mess.
From eBay:
**What is the estimated delivery time for Authenticity Guarantee items?
**
The authenticator will inspect the item within one to two business days after receiving it. Once authenticated, it will be shipped directly to the buyer with four-day or less tracked delivery.
I can believe it for slabbed material. They are just verifying the slab is real. But, yes, I would be surprised if they turned around raw coins that quickly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@jmlanzaf said:
I can believe it for slabbed material. They are just verifying the slab is real. But, yes, I would be surprised if they turned around raw coins that quickly.
PCGS charges you and me $27 to ship one coin valued between $1 and $1000 back to us after being graded. How much do you think eBay will be paying for them to send coins along to buyers?
After eBay examines and authenticates a slabbed coin, should they put a sticker on the slab so that future buyers will know that it's been approved by eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@jmlanzaf said:
I can believe it for slabbed material. They are just verifying the slab is real. But, yes, I would be surprised if they turned around raw coins that quickly.
PCGS charges you and me $27 to ship one coin valued between $1 and $1000 back to us after being graded. How much do you think eBay will be paying for them to send coins along to buyers?
I assume that's part of the reason for the $500 minimum.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I’ve always been a little hesitant selling gold coins on eBay. My concern was that a bad actor could say I shipped a different coin, and ask for a refund, and I’d be left holding the bag.
While this could happen with any coin or item, I felt that gold could be more susceptible to these kinds of shenanigans, given how liquid gold is. I’ve personally have never had an issue like this on eBay, but my volume isn’t that high.
Having eBay act as an intermediary would obviously greatly lessen this concern.
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
@FredS said:
This is the the part I am not buying. That PCGS will turn the coins around in a day or two?
Current turnaround times: Walkthrough service is a week, ($150 per coin) and Express is a month, ($70 per coin) Even though they are not grading these eBay items, how in the world will they authenticate/get out the door in a day or two? One week to get there, who knows how long PCGS will keep them, and another week back to the buyer. (One month total time would not surprise me at all) I hope I am wrong, but this sure feels like it is going to be a mess.
From eBay:
**What is the estimated delivery time for Authenticity Guarantee items?
**
The authenticator will inspect the item within one to two business days after receiving it. Once authenticated, it will be shipped directly to the buyer with four-day or less tracked delivery.
I can believe it for slabbed material. They are just verifying the slab is real. But, yes, I would be surprised if they turned around raw coins that quickly.
They will probably do everything possible (at least initially) to get the 2 day turnaround but that might mean grading times get even slower.
@PerryHall said:
After eBay examines and authenticates a slabbed coin, should they put a sticker on the slab so that future buyers will know that it's been approved by eBay?
No sticker but they mention that “Finally, the coin will be packaged with Authenticity Guarantee materials and sent to you.”
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
@jacrispies said:
I wonder what the penalty is for a seller that ignores this rule and ships directly to the customer.
You will not be able to. The only option is to ship to the authenticator first. I have bought and sold PSA graded cards with this program and it is a pretty seamless process. The item takes a bit longer to arrive to you as a buyer as it goes through the authentication process first but it definitely reduces potential scams as sellers don't get paid until the item passes authentication. If it does not, it gets returned to the seller. Ebay releases payment to the seller as soon as the item passes authentication. You don't have to wait for the buyer to receive the item to get paid.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@oreville said:
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
@oreville said:
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
@oreville said:
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
This just strikes me as too complicated. I could see eBay instituting a "three strikes" rule on fakes with clearly unhappy customers, then a possible "remedial education" program if a seller caught wants to continue.
@logger7 said:
This just strikes me as too complicated. I could see eBay instituting a "three strikes" rule on fakes with clearly unhappy customers, then a possible "remedial education" program if a seller caught wants to continue.
They've been doing it successfuly with cards for several years.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They don't grade raw coins. What happens if a coin is determined to be authentic, but it has been cleaned, tooled, repaired, ATed, whizzed, etc and these defects were not included in the description of the coin in the eBay listing? Is the coin returnable even though it has been authenticated by eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
They don't grade raw coins. What happens if a coin is determined to be authentic, but it has been cleaned, tooled, repaired, ATed, whizzed, etc and these defects were not included in the description of the coin in the eBay listing? Is the coin returnable even though it has been authenticated by eBay?
Not to mention, what if the authenticator thinks it does not match the photo? If the color is not quite as bright, because of the lighting? What if I still wanted that coin, in spite of that? Photos do not always tell the whole story, and I am OK with that. I don't want someone else deciding if I want the coin! The whole thing seems silly, and I don't care if it works on cards, I collect COINS, not cards.
@PerryHall said:
They don't grade raw coins. What happens if a coin is determined to be authentic, but it has been cleaned, tooled, repaired, ATed, whizzed, etc and these defects were not included in the description of the coin in the eBay listing? Is the coin returnable even though it has been authenticated by eBay?
Not to mention, what if the authenticator thinks it does not match the photo? If the color is not quite as bright, because of the lighting? What if I still wanted that coin, in spite of that? Photos do not always tell the whole story, and I am OK with that. I don't want someone else deciding if I want the coin! The whole thing seems silly, and I don't care if it works on cards, I collect COINS, not cards.
@oreville said:
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
.
There is so much fraud on ebay apparently that sellers are now subjected to this? Sheesh. Ultimately it is going to drive ebay fees even higher to pay for the costs of this program. Yikes.
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
@oreville said:
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
.
There is so much fraud on ebay apparently that sellers are now subjected to this? Sheesh. Ultimately it is going to drive ebay fees even higher to pay for the costs of this program. Yikes.
We understand your bias. God forbid they try to create a safe space for buying.
🤡
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
They also frequently submit raw coins for slabs or stickers and subtract that cost from the proceeds.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
They also frequently submit raw coins for slabs or stickers and subtract that cost from the proceeds.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
They also frequently submit raw coins for slabs or stickers and subtract that cost from the proceeds.
And so?
It's no different, as any objective observer would recognize.
Unlike you, I have no problem with either security measure. You just hate ebay and like FeeC
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
And so?
eBay is now going to do the same, and you're complaining about it.
Er, yes there is, on ebay one has to buy the item first from a seller who listed the item, then it is sent to an alleged authenticator (whomever that could be). So there is a big delay as it is shipped somewhere else and it WILL drive up fees for Sellers and slow down the times the buyer receives the item. And clearly there seems to be a need for this on ebay because there apparently is so much fraud to warrant the program. HA, SB, DLRC, GC, etc., they pre-screen the items and there is not multiple mailings to authenticate after the auction sale. And they have already baked in the cost of the pre-screen. So ebay will ultimately have to bring up prices for coin sales to sellers with this program.
@MasonG said:
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
And so?
eBay is now going to do the same, and you're complaining about it.
Uh no, not complaining because it has no affect on me. I get it, there is enough fraud on ebay that they feel they need the program. But if I were a seller, and and honest one on ebay, I would be concerned because it will drive up the sellers fees and the honest Joe is thus going to pay for the ne'er do wells that commit the fraud.
Comments
I like the concept, but holy cow, talk about slowing down the end-to-end delivery.
Dave
I kind of disagree with this. First, if you don't accept returns on eBay the buyer only has 3 days to file a “not as described” claim. Second, if you don't return the item your credit card might deny your dispute. Things changed a lot now for filing a dispute. it is not that easy to file a dispute with credit card any more. I bought some counterfeit coins on eBay because it takes time for PCGS to verify the authenticity, so I missed the time to file not as describe on eBay. I did file it on eBay anyway, it were declined/closed automatically after three days as expected. Then I called eBay for help, eBay said nothing they can do about it. They told me to file with credit card and also told me to report the seller on eBay which I did. eBay closed the seller account, that's about it, eBay did not do anything to help me to get the refund. Because it is not over 60 days so I still able to file with credit card. However, I can't file online because one of the question is did you return the item, if your answer is no then it said you can't file it. So I need to call in order for me to file it. I have a letter from PCGS stated coins are counterfeit but credit card denied my dispute without giving me any reasons. The denial letter just said it is not a billing error based on the evident. I wrote a letter asked for appeal and it reopened again. Then credit card asked me to provide invoice and prove of seller declined the return which I did provide all of that including PCGS letter that stated coins are counterfeit. Then two days ago credit card denied some of the disputes. I called again asked for the reasons for denial. The rep. did not tell me any reason, she told me the seller said 1, I left a positive feedback, 2. I still has the coins. So I emailed and mailed letter to the credit card yesterday. Here is my rebuttal to the seller reasons, "Merchant claim: “Customer left positive feedback.”
I did not know at the time that the coins were counterfeit. It is normal courtesy to leave positive feedback when an item initially appears as purchased. Importantly, once I learned the coins were counterfeit, I took action by requesting a return and disputing the transactions. Positive feedback does not negate the misrepresentation/counterfeit issue, and it does not change the fact that the seller refused the return and provided no return label or return address.
Merchant claim: “Coins are still in the customer’s possession.”
I have the coins because the seller refused my return request and did not provide the required return shipping information (no label and no return address). I cannot complete a return without the seller’s cooperation. If the seller provides a return label/address, I will ship the coins accordingly."
Plus, it is very hard to get to a live agent on eBay now, you need to bypast AI first before you can get to the live agent (good luck with that). I might have to end up file in court for this.
Is eBay already started this policy yet or it will apply to all the sellers? I just sold a coin but it did not ask me to send to PCGS or any eBay address.
Maybe you should go read the terms before you type.
It's really no different than selling an item internationally. You don't ship it to the sellers address, there's a transfer station that you mail it to and from there Ebay takes care of all necessary documentation then forwards the package to the buyer. The best thing about that is once the package is received by Ebay, you're no longer responsible for loss or damage to the package.
After all these years my wife still thinks I'm sexy. Every time I walk by she says "What An Ass"
Can buyers return items purchased with Authenticity Guarantee?
Buyers can return an item if you accept returns, as stated in the listing, and the return is requested within your return window. If you do not accept returns, the item will be final sale and cannot be returned.
You're also not responsible for accepting returns or refunding the buyer. I wish all my sales were through the eBay International Shipping program.
You can disagree all you want, it's simply not true.
CC companies will request return, but they do not track or verify that the return happens. They just pay.
I had an. Ebay return FIVE MONTHS after delivery for a silver kilo. Yes, they could not file for an eBay return so they issued a charge back. Some CC's allow 18 months, while almost all allow 6 months. I tried to fight the return, eBay told me to pay it and told me to be glad that the customer had shipped the coin (although it could have been an empty box for all I knew) because "half the time" (eBay's words) the client does not so anything back and the CC does not track or verify compliance.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Again, they can't file an eBay return but they can file a PayPal return or CC return or both.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Maybe you should read my post before you type. Ebay cannot and will not prevent an CC or PayPal charge back. I'VE HAD IT HAPPEN.
Even if you are past the eBay window, eBay gets out of the way of all CC or PayPal charge backs. That's why i said you have "as many as" 3 return opportunities.
I had a return after FIVE MONTHS. Ebay wouldn't allow it, the transacting wasn't even available on ebay actor. But, the CC company did. It took weeks after it was filed.
I love ebay. I defend ebay all the time. Ask anyone. But "no returns" is an ebay fiction.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799
And, FWIW, eBay charged me $20 for the chargeback although I eventually got that refunded.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Doesn't help with charge backs
https://www.valueaddedresource.net/ebay-global-shipping-seller-protection-chargebacks/
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Your link references "eBay Global Shipping", that's a different program from "eBay International Shipping". With eBay International Shipping, once the item is received by the eBay shipping facility, they accept responsibility for the transaction from there. From eBay:
When you ship internationally using eBay International Shipping, you're responsible for sending the item your buyer purchased safely to the domestic shipping hub. If a buyer reports that an item was lost or damaged during international shipping or it is damaged at the hub, we'll work with the buyer to resolve the issue. You're protected from:
-The obligation to refund the buyer
-eBay Money Back Guarantee cases
-Payment disputes
-Open 'Not as described' returns in your service metrics
-Negative or neutral feedback related to item handling during international shipping
Not sure how they could possibly win a charge-back since PCGS sent them the authenticated coin, and the eBay terms say, SALE IS FINAL if you don't accept returns. I'll take my chances that I would win that one.
My point is that it will be nearly impossible to now return a coin, as a buyer, if you don't like it, after PCGS sends it to them. That will definitely hurt high end coin sales, because you always had that eBay buyer protection, and most buyers know that. It is now gone under this program, and perhaps the real reason eBay is doing this. Of course, some sellers will still offer returns, but that coins is going to be gone for a long time now, if it is returned!
That same language is on the eBay global shipping guarantees.
Look on ebay community pages for the many complaints about charge backs. Ebay global/international protects against disputes (chargebacks) related to shipping but not all charge backs.
Admittedly, the posted policies are not exactly clear.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293#eligibility
I see nothing about SNAD protection, only that they will handle logistics of a return.
And it says nothing about charge backs for SNAD, although it is pretty clear about it for shipping related issues.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I had a $600 international sale where the buyer said the item was not as described and wanted to return it for a refund. eBay dealt with it somehow (they didn't tell me how) and I kept the sale.
edited to add...
From eBay International Shipping
Seller Terms & Conditions
International Returns.
To the extent permitted by applicable law, eBay may choose not to display the returns policy field of your listings to Buyers to comply with local regulations. For international returns your item will be returned to a third party service provider or liquidated and you will keep your sale.
https://pages.ebay.com/internationalshippingprogram/seller/terms/
So, if i sell a raw coin as an UNC and PCGS determines it's a details coin, you are sure that a return won't be allowed or that eBay will refund the buyer themselves?
CC companies almost always side with the buyer, even if there isn't a clear problem with the item.
Maybe you're right and ebay will protect you. I'd love that. But if like to see evidence from the card or watch program.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
FWIW
https://community.ebay.com/forum/selling-57920/topic/new-chargeback-scam-with-raw-sports-cards-125130/
AI view
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This is the the part I am not buying. That PCGS will turn the coins around in a day or two?
Current turnaround times: Walkthrough service is a week, ($150 per coin) and Express is a month, ($70 per coin) Even though they are not grading these eBay items, how in the world will they authenticate/get out the door in a day or two? One week to get there, who knows how long PCGS will keep them, and another week back to the buyer. (One month total time would not surprise me at all) I hope I am wrong, but this sure feels like it is going to be a mess.
From eBay:
**What is the estimated delivery time for Authenticity Guarantee items?
**
The authenticator will inspect the item within one to two business days after receiving it. Once authenticated, it will be shipped directly to the buyer with four-day or less tracked delivery.
I can believe it for slabbed material. They are just verifying the slab is real. But, yes, I would be surprised if they turned around raw coins that quickly.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
PCGS charges you and me $27 to ship one coin valued between $1 and $1000 back to us after being graded. How much do you think eBay will be paying for them to send coins along to buyers?
After eBay examines and authenticates a slabbed coin, should they put a sticker on the slab so that future buyers will know that it's been approved by eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I assume that's part of the reason for the $500 minimum.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I’ve always been a little hesitant selling gold coins on eBay. My concern was that a bad actor could say I shipped a different coin, and ask for a refund, and I’d be left holding the bag.
While this could happen with any coin or item, I felt that gold could be more susceptible to these kinds of shenanigans, given how liquid gold is. I’ve personally have never had an issue like this on eBay, but my volume isn’t that high.
Having eBay act as an intermediary would obviously greatly lessen this concern.
Dave
Hopefully this will get rid of the many new sellers listing highly desirable ultra rare pocket change for ridiculous money.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
They will probably do everything possible (at least initially) to get the 2 day turnaround but that might mean grading times get even slower.
No sticker but they mention that “Finally, the coin will be packaged with Authenticity Guarantee materials and sent to you.”
What about sale of coins already in a PCGS NGC or CACG holder? Will PCGS authenticate the PCGS slab and the coin within the PCGS slab? Also the NGC and CACG slab?
You will not be able to. The only option is to ship to the authenticator first. I have bought and sold PSA graded cards with this program and it is a pretty seamless process. The item takes a bit longer to arrive to you as a buyer as it goes through the authentication process first but it definitely reduces potential scams as sellers don't get paid until the item passes authentication. If it does not, it gets returned to the seller. Ebay releases payment to the seller as soon as the item passes authentication. You don't have to wait for the buyer to receive the item to get paid.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What about this one in an ICG slab? This auction has the Authenticity Guarantee attached and is subject to this new process. Will PCGS verify that a) the coin is a real coin, b) the slab is authentic, and... c) that the coin itself is a branch mint proof?
[https://ebay.com/itm/298607999262?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Interesting. For raw coins, they authenticate the coin. For slabbed coins, they ignore the coin and authenticate the holder.
This just strikes me as too complicated. I could see eBay instituting a "three strikes" rule on fakes with clearly unhappy customers, then a possible "remedial education" program if a seller caught wants to continue.
They've been doing it successfuly with cards for several years.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
They don't grade raw coins. What happens if a coin is determined to be authentic, but it has been cleaned, tooled, repaired, ATed, whizzed, etc and these defects were not included in the description of the coin in the eBay listing? Is the coin returnable even though it has been authenticated by eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not to mention, what if the authenticator thinks it does not match the photo? If the color is not quite as bright, because of the lighting? What if I still wanted that coin, in spite of that? Photos do not always tell the whole story, and I am OK with that. I don't want someone else deciding if I want the coin! The whole thing seems silly, and I don't care if it works on cards, I collect COINS, not cards.
See the FAQs
https://www.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee/coins
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I got a fake or 2 bought on ebay from 10 years ago...l will they refund for that??? Thought so...
They would have 10 years ago.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yet another overlord reason to avoid selling on feepay............. > @jmlanzaf said:
.
There is so much fraud on ebay apparently that sellers are now subjected to this? Sheesh. Ultimately it is going to drive ebay fees even higher to pay for the costs of this program. Yikes.
I bet Heritage, Stacks and GC review consignments in order to eliminate counterfeits. I bet the people who do the reviews get paid, and that Heritage, Stacks and GC allow for that expense in the fees they charge.
We understand your bias. God forbid they try to create a safe space for buying.
🤡
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And so?
They also frequently submit raw coins for slabs or stickers and subtract that cost from the proceeds.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And so?
It's no different, as any objective observer would recognize.
Unlike you, I have no problem with either security measure. You just hate ebay and like FeeC
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This will only expose eBay to liability… hmm. 🤔
eBay is now going to do the same, and you're complaining about it.
.> @cameonut2011 said:
Maybe. But, again, they have possibly billions of dollars worth of experience with cards.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Er, yes there is, on ebay one has to buy the item first from a seller who listed the item, then it is sent to an alleged authenticator (whomever that could be). So there is a big delay as it is shipped somewhere else and it WILL drive up fees for Sellers and slow down the times the buyer receives the item. And clearly there seems to be a need for this on ebay because there apparently is so much fraud to warrant the program. HA, SB, DLRC, GC, etc., they pre-screen the items and there is not multiple mailings to authenticate after the auction sale. And they have already baked in the cost of the pre-screen. So ebay will ultimately have to bring up prices for coin sales to sellers with this program.
Uh no, not complaining because it has no affect on me. I get it, there is enough fraud on ebay that they feel they need the program. But if I were a seller, and and honest one on ebay, I would be concerned because it will drive up the sellers fees and the honest Joe is thus going to pay for the ne'er do wells that commit the fraud.