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Which would be worth more?
tradedollarnut
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The old holder 65 if it had a gold sticker?
Or the new holder 67 without a green CAC?
Aside from having a good TrueView now, I’m inclined to think the gold sticker route might have been worth more. Opinions?
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I'd think a PR67 would trump a PR65 anytime, with or without a gold CAC.
Gold CAC 65 I'd imagine.
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I’d be inclined to agree with you if I hadn’t bought the coin at CAC66 money
In the upper echelons of coins, the delta is slightly less but OGH+Gold CAC is a powerful combination, we've seen it time and again.
I'd bet the Gold CAC 65 would sell for more in an auction.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
PF67
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That's an excellent price.
Generally, 10K for a PR65 or $25K+ for a PR67.
Side quest: How amazing would it be if the PR67 received a Gold CAC?
Ill go with the 67 as well
Gold CAC had the better upside, but you will be better able to answer this when you sell it.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Lately I’ve been seeing Gold CAC 65s sell for all of 67 CAC money if they are nice. Not specifically for this type but in general.
PR67, unless the coin looked like a solid 67 in the previous holder. And considering that hairlines on proof coins can be hard to see through the plastic, I’d have a hard time figuring the coin as a lock two point upgrade, while inside the PR65 holder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You know the ins and outs of this end of the Trade dollar market better than I do and I would take your inclination on this as being well informed.
To me the difference would be that knowledgeable folks would likely view the OGH 65/Gold CAC as being at least 66+ and likely 67 whereas the 67/No CAC might be viewed downward yet also as at least 66+ and likely 67. So then which set of clothes do you prefer? I would prefer the OGH with Gold CAC and think in an auction setting that would not only get more buzz, but might get more dollars, as well.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
These are above my comfort zone, but in an auction, given the current CAC Gold mania, and given the skepticism surrounding unstickered coins, I would think the 65 would bring more. Which is “worth more” is a different question tho, and requires in-hand evaluation.
Given the value spread between grades, I’d go with the PF67 holder assuming it green beans (and if this is the coin you posted last night it probably will if the images aren’t hiding anything).
I would think that the 67 holder would sell for more. Obviously, its the same coin but if collectors/investors/register collectors are looking for high grade proof trade dollars than the 67 is on their radar and not the 65. Only true collectors in the know value the gold sticker. I am going through the same thinking process. I have a Capped bust dime in a rattler 65 with a gold sticker and trying to determine if I should submit it for upgrading to a 67?
As far as which would be worth more to me.... the PR67 holder.
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Why do you need an in hand evaluation? They are the exact same coin so they will look exactly the same.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Hard to really make that call.
You know how crazy some sticker chasers pay up.
Gold CAC 65 OGH. Bids run with the imagination.
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You play in this sandbox and I don’t, but I would think on a coin like this it probably doesn’t matter. The ones that are known are known and whoever lost it in the last auction will still be after it in the next one, regardless of holder.
With all that said, I’ll still answer the question with a guess that the 67 holds more weight.
PR67 trumps PR65.
Now gold sticker mania that’s a wildcard.
Yes they can bid some big insane numbers on gold stickered stuff.
Why would it matter? It’s the same coin. I for one will never get caught up with which would be “worth more” because of the grade stated on the slab. I buy a coin because I like it and that’s that.
Excellent point. There is a beauty to collecting Colonials. The rigmarole of grading and stickers and whatnot are mostly removed.
So what is your actual answer? Yes PF 67 is two grades higher than PF65.
If a $1500 PG coin with gold CAC can bring $3500, does that mean a $15000 PG coin with gold CAC should bring $35000? At some point you’d think the premium would shrink 🤔
I personally won’t play that game of sticker maxxing. It’s about the coin. Always the coin.
Empty Nest Collection
And how about when you (or your heirs) sell?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
A true specialist ignores the label and bids on the coin. I will never pay AU prices if I feel the coin is only a VF-XF. On the flip side, I will swing for the fences on a undergraded coin. In addition, I write notes for my coins/notes that literally spells out for anyone the important factors on my material. I need to do this because auction firms today do not have the manpower to rightfully catalog each and every notable item. I will also write the necessary notes on raw coins housed in 2X2 flips. My heirs need not worry.
A true specialist knows when to grossly over pay
Aren't they worth the same?
Tom, what makes you think “that knowledgeable folks would likely view the OGH 65/Gold CAC as being at least 66+ and likely 67”? > @renomedphys said:
That typically depends upon what the coin is and its value at the current grade, as well as each of the next two higher grades.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Terrific coin with an interesting question. The question, in my view, is placing far too much emphasis on the holder and CAC review. Opinions associated with a coin can and often do change over time as they have here. What really remains constant is the look of the coin and how that coin compares to the surviving population within the GEM Plus grade level. A specialist likely has either seen or knows about that surviving population. So it is really not about grossly overpaying… it is about selecting the best coin and the valuation will eventually catch up with those few top tier coins. Not all coins at the same grade level are created equal and a Specialist is well aware of this.
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It all depends. One needs to pay up(within reason) if it’s a generational coin. I’m out if it’s a so-called top pop of a common coin or something like a 16-D dime or SVDB which are available pretty much anywhere.
That shouldn't matter. The coin wouldn't be any different in an AU holder. So, taken to it's extreme, the coin should be with the same whether it's in an AU holder or a 67 holder.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
What about top pop of an 1884-S Morgan?
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Yes, about $50 worth of silver.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The coin is but the holder value isn’t.
In the ogh:
Coin $15k
Holder -$4k [comprised of grade -$7k and ogh +$3k]
No CAC -$1k
In the 67 holder:
Coin $15k
Holder $10k
No CAC - $5k
Or smoething like that
In looking out for number one I Check CDN CPG Bid / Mkt value.
As far as some players marketing asking much more say bc of the holder fad I ignore that. Then politely pass. May refer them to somebody in that hobby segment.
Generally I coach my assistant in making offers walk up sellers. So she might offer 10 pct behind cdn bid if that is our plan number for the show. Then passes the item to me finalize, procure. Or advises them to shop around (moon money counter offer from customer). Additionally she is a trained security person can knock down an assailant with one kick.
There is something about the dark tone on that Trade Dollar that is really appealing to me! The strike does not hurt either.
Osburn & Cushing used to have a beautiful gun-metal Seated Dollar that was just out of my grasp.
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I like the PF67 in the gold shield holder for sure.
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The PR67.
The other (65) might trade higher via the sticker game but that’s speculation. You’re going have to find that buyer.
I don’t buy on speculation lol. I don’t pay above the grade on the holder.
Frankly question if that item above 65 money due to its dark color and left obv scratch / and slide marks rt obverse field.
There is no reverse photo.
Gold CAC on the 65 piece? Does Mars have a breathable atmosphere?
Favor it in the 67 holder.
You’ve likely missed great deals and great coins. No one bats 100%. Astute buyers can play on this and benefit from arbitrages. That include paying up for an undergraded coin and getting it in the right plastic for a flip. It can also involve the reverse crack out game (slightly generously graded coin without a sticker in e.g. a NGC holder, cross to the grade below but with a plus, send to CAC and flip for a profit).
Yes and losses can exceed wins.
Not much of a fan there.
That coin doesn’t look like the same coin above. But from the marks seems to be it. Much nicer photo. Now looks 67.
On this particular coin, as of today, I think the value is similar ... with a slight edge to lower graded OGH with a CAC Gold sticker as a wild card to a situation where some bidders/buyers are speculating farther than others.
But if we think 10 years out, I'm not sure that same premium holds up and the PF67 overtakes the current plastic/sticker trifecta, as the coin is recognized as a correctly graded, Condition Census Trade Dollar.
I am assuming, of course, that the coin is really a 67 (based on today's standard) and had a OGH with Gold bean, of course.
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This coin is out of my reach, but in general when I get to choose I prefer my coins to be in undergraded holders rather than overgraded.
Obviously correctly graded is preferable but in this case with an OGH involved I understand the hesitancy to crack, and I would think that cracking would be the quickest way to a 2 point upgrade as opposed to crossing, but cracking 5 figure OGH material obviously isn’t for the faint of heart.
Amazing coin.
We're kind of far away from your question, but this is for @MFeld regarding my post.
I wrote what I did because CAC does not give out a gold sticker to a coin they believe is simply high end for the assigned grade, but rather gives them out for a coin they believe is at least worthy of a green sticker for the next highest grade. In the case of a PR65 that would mean a gold sticker infers that CAC believes the coin green sticker worthy at PR66 and since CAC writes about wanting to only sticker premium coins within a grade it can be thought to mean PR66+ with a gold sticker at minimum.
I went on to PR67 because the difference between a PR66+ and a PR67 is exceptionally small as the grading window is very tight at that level and parsing a 66+ from a 67 isn't too far off of counting how many fairies can stand on the head of a pin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I agree. I was responding largely to the people arguing to buy the coin not the holder/sticker. If you take that to the extreme, the holder shouldn't matter at all to the assessment of value. People seem to mostly want to apply that to stickers.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you, Tom.
I had started to ask that question of you in a different post. But I decided not to and didn’t even realize I’d included it as part of a reply to another poster. I’m sorry for that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It would be a wash, IMO. OGH with gold CAC gets bidders going mad.
THe gold CAC is the "What if" mystery. What if the grade is two points higher with a OGH holder that might be one point higher than current PCGS graded coins.