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Can this 83-S Morgan be improved?
Shabu92
Posts: 36 ✭
I just acquired this 1883-S Morgan SIlver Dollar. It's very nice, but has an area on the reverse, between the 'ICA' in America and the leaves, that is less than stellar. Any suggestions on if, and how, this could be improved without ruining this coin? I appreciate your attention.
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I'm seeing damage (scratch?). Metal has been moved from that coin and there looks to be an effort to cover it up. It's a Mint State coin for details, but I'm not seeing this in a straight graded holder... Unc Details.
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It appears someone has already tried to improve.
I'd leave it alone.
Gently remove all the coin doctor residue and it has a chance. I've seen straight-graded coins with much worse damage than that.
First agree with others, that area has had some 'help'. The larger light brownish area appears to be what could be called thumbing. Generally that can be removed or lightened but depends on exactly what it is and of course if one tries to locally remove could be a color difference with adjacent surfaces after removal.
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The defective area could be slag or slag inclusion. Difficult to tell with that photo but I am going by the shape, how it goes right up to the leaf and what appears to be dark streaks adjacent to it. If so, then hopefully the 'improver' didn't try to do anything to it.
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Here is a prior thread on a slag with some other references.
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https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13631496#Comment_13631496
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And another photo of some slag but not as defective as the OP.
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Thank you for your input. I'll look into this.
Do you own the coin and is it in your possession?
It really looks as if it could be a planchet flaw. It also looks as if it was treated in a localized area around the flaw that may have impacted the surface which means that the discoloration may be permanent. I think a straight grade is unlikely. The real question in my mind would be whether the coin is worth a conservation gamble at either TPG service. If all goes well and there is no real surface issue other than what looks what could be a planchet flaw, an UNC details grade would be a reasonable outcome. However, if it misses UNC details… and gets AU details… well the gamble would be a lesson to chalk up to experience. The 1883-s is a challenge to find in a higher MS grade so even an UNC details grade could be worth the gamble if the obverse has the look. From the photo, I would not be placing bets either way without a good in hand look to develop a comfort level that this coin is truly Mint State. Good luck with your decision and consider sharing the result if you choose the path of conservation/submission. It is possible that conservation could be rejected after an in hand review.
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Maybe it’s just the images, but to me, the surfaces of each side of the coin - not just the area being discussed - look cloudy and unoriginal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
As has been mentioned, this coin looks like it has a planchet inclusion, or a drift mark ("slag" as @lilolme explains), and someone already tried to "fix" it.
It is possible if you remove the "putty" (use acetone, and maybe roll the area with an acetone soaked q-tip), it will look natural.
If so, as it appears to be a planchet defect, it should grade.
My 2c ...
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@MFeld
I agree that the images are not helping the cause.
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Yes, pictures leave a lot to be desired. Maybe if I had a good 3D camera....
Thanks for the input. I appreciate all the help.
It looks like she’s been ‘improved’ already too much for her own good.
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Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Someone tried removing the slag inclusion physically and/or chemically. In both cases unsuccessfully. If there's actually residue in the area, it might be removable, but it also might reveal scratches from physical attempts at removing the inclusion.
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It is definitely a slag inclusion. I get those at my mint all the time when I am fabricating planchets. But I sandblast them so any such inclusions are long gone before I strike them.
The cloudy area around the inclusion looks like someone's attempt at a chemical mitigation treatment.
You could try to dip it. However my confidence level is a bit low that would improve it. Further more it has other problems - reverse scratch, weak strike, and below par luster.
I don’t buy raw coins especially expensive ones. Many have already been worked on then failed TPG review .
Have you shopped it around the bourse? Where are they vs CDN bid?
Just a reminder that the 83-s is $3250 in 63 and $5750 in 64 in the PCGS price… not bothering to post a price in 65.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I didn’t read comments so this probably has already been said. That divot is a planchet flaw clearly goes under the leaf. Someone already tried something leaving that stain. You’ll only make it worse.
Perhaps Off the bourse - if some interested player probably he may offer some pct back of CDN bid.
Which ever of those he grades it will affect his hedging bet (on raw coin).
Your best bet get it graded so good chance decent offer. Whether you dip it before submission your choice.
I would try MS70 on it first.
Collector, occasional seller
that's not good - as stated: Someone already "messed" with it. Maybe try to restore it with a TPG? You will never get rid of the damage obviously but maybe they can help with that "cloud" around it.
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