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Early Half Eagle Bust?
pmh1nic
Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was watching to early half eagle last week in the GC auction.
One was an 1807 Draped Bust Right NGC AU-55 (over graded in my opinion) that PCGS has on the low end at $16.5K. It goes for $10,462 including buyer premium.
https://greatcollections.com/Coin/2161538/1807-Capped-Bust-Right-Gold-Half-Eagle-NGC-AU-55
The other was an 1808 Capped Bust NGC XF-45 5D wide which I thought was correctly grade. PCGS low price was XF-40 at $8.5K and the coin went for $9,506 including buyer premium.
[https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/2161530/1808-Capped-Bust-Left-Gold-Half-Eagle-NGC-XF-45
Thoughts on grading and ultimate sale price.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
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OP,
Looks like you might have a bad link for the second coin. My laptop did not like the extra "http" at the beginning.
Did you list the VF35 value for the 1808? The PCGS value for a XF45 is $10,250.
That 1807 looks less than impressive, but part of that may be the poor strike.
Finding early gold with original skin IS SO HARD. So so so many of these are messed with. Most advanced collectors are starting to realize this.
My suggestion if you are in the market for stuff like this ask
@PeakRarities , @MFeld or Laura, TDN etc to help you...
These coins are messed with at a very high percentage. Even when they are not original the TPGs are stabbing them.
It does not matter. This type is easy to find well struck. Even if the technical grade is correct, this is the sort of coin which sells at a discount for the grade. For me, it would be a deep discount.
Personally, I'd have a hard time getting excited about bidding on either of these coins.
The 1807 looks wiped, has a bad rev strike and does it also have die polish lines? Blow up the GreatPhoto and zoom in on the word "LIBERTY" and let me know if you see DPLs. My eyes would get mad at me if I made them look at this coin much longer.
The 1808 looks pretty wiped as well and I don't know if I like the color. Doesn't look bad otherwise. Well struck on the obv stars and perhaps otherwise but I am not an expert.
I agree on your grade opinions.
As far as the first coin, I don’t disagree with your opinion that the grade appears generous. Regardless, it’s not a coin that has a colorful patina, and the weak reverse strike is another difficult obstacle. For valuation, I’d treat it more like an au 50, and the cpg (retail) for au50 is 10k. Even at au55, the cpg is 11.5k, so the realized GC price is actually pretty good, all things considered.
Here’s the correct second link-
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/2161530/1808-Capped-Bust-Left-Gold-Half-Eagle-NGC-XF-45
The CPG for this issue is $8,500 in xf-45 and in xf-40 it would have been $7,750, so the realized price is also pretty decent for this sale.
When it comes to early gold, many of the desirable examples are crossed to PCGS, and even without a bean, a PCGS holder has a meaningful impact on salability. The PCGS guide prices are often optimistic, and typically represent a value that a CAC example would be worth. Bean or no bean, collectors favor coins with some skin on them, and both of these are more of the processed pale color. Ultimately, I think these prices realized are about as good as they could be and I would not be disappointed as the consignor of either coin.
For these issues, I’d recommend using CPG/CDN rather than the price guide, but previous auction comps will always be the most accurate way to price something. When you can’t find many APRs to compare to, or there aren’t any recent sales. you can just search by type (pic from Greysheet app below), and that is better than using old comps. Often times, comps older than a few years can be obsolete, and you’ll be better off just comparing to another common date with similar rarity. There aren’t many collectors assembling comprehensive sets these days, so whether its an 1808, 1810 (small date), or an 1811 won’t make nearly as much of an impact as the actual quality, grade, and overall appearance of the coin itself.
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Here are the two type coins in my collection. I bought this raw in the Auction '82 sale. It is now in an AU-58 holder.
Here is the next type. This one is graded AU-55.
Read the original post, began typing my thoughts, then realized Dan basically summarized them perfectly.
Average to slightly less than average coins for prices that for the most part are in line with comps/guides or similarly graded coins from other years, if comps are not recent. Good results for GC and the consignor(s)
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
I fixed the link.
Looks like I missed the PCGS price on the XF-45 1808. As you mentioned $10,250 is their price so $9,506.00, which included the premium was a bargain based on the PCGS price. As mentioned, of the two coins I preferred the 1808 given what I thought was the more accurate grade.
That said the are no early Half Eagles coming up in GC auctions in July. I would think lack of availability would be pushing prices more towards the PCGS price range. Is GC not considered a good place to sell these coins or is the a real reflection of the lack of coins available? A lot of the coins I seen in the auctions over the last few months were details grade.
The 1807 appears to be lacking luster on the obverse, compared to the reverse.
The obverse surfaces also have a lot of small chatter.
And the weak strike is another detriment.
I like the 1808.
So I can certainly see why the 1807 would sell below the guide price in that grade,
while the 1808 would sell at (or above) the guide price.
Do you check listings on eBay, other auction houses and dealer websites? Based on what I see, the coins are more available than you apparently think they are.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm very leery of Ebay.
As you mention there are no early Half Eagles coming up on GC auctions this month. I don't know if that's typical for a particular time of year but in the past there seems to have been a fairly good selection BUT a lot of the coins were details grade which made this two more attractive.
I didn’t mention anything about Half Eagles in GC auctions. I asked you if you also checked eBay and other auction companies.
There are some highly reputable sellers on EBay and I know that other auction companies have such coins up for sale.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The 1808 is more appealing than the 1807, but I wouldn't have been a bidder on either.
I've been recently looking at adding one of these as a type coin in my collection, and am seeing very few I like. The one I did like was snatched up before I could place a phone call.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
No, I avoid EBay.
I can share a couple of mine for comparison… eye appeal can carry far more weight than a numerical grade.
‘dude
Ultimately it's up to you, but casting a wider net may catch more fish.