@bgr said:
What kind of steroids heal a UCL tear? Asking for my elbow.
@bgr said:
What kind of steroids heal a UCL tear? Asking for my elbow.
Nolan was diagnosed with a partially torn UCL after the 1986 season I believe. He would have been 39 at the time. Dr. Jobe said surgery. Nolan decided to rest it. he then pitched another 7 seasons with that partially torn UCL. I have no idea if PED was involved but i have some suspicions...
@bgr said:
What kind of steroids heal a UCL tear? Asking for my elbow.
@bgr said:
What kind of steroids heal a UCL tear? Asking for my elbow.
Nolan was diagnosed with a partially torn UCL after the 1986 season I believe. He would have been 39 at the time. Dr. Jobe said surgery. Nolan decided to rest it. he then pitched another 7 seasons with that partially torn UCL. I have no idea if PED was involved but i have some suspicions...
That sounds about right. Ryan said it scarred over. Whether or not he used steroids (or anything else) for treatment or for any particular advantage is quite speculative though.
@ArtVandelay said:
Nolan Ryan ranks low last amongst Hall of Fame pitchers in career net advantage. The net advantage looks at a pitcher's win% versus their team's win%.
Nolan - .526 win% - team .506 win% Net +2.0
Kershaw +12.7
Koufax +10.7
Pedro +10.4
Halladay +10.1
Scherzer +9.8
Cole +9.3
Ford +9.2
Verlander +9.2
Seaver +9.1
Palmer +8.9
Gibson +8.2
Randy +8.1
Maddux +7.9
Marichal +7.7
Even Blyleven is nearly double that of Ryan +3.8
Nolan Ryan was the greatest at striking out players. But, when you look at the above stat and then also factor in that he is the 6th worst career WHIP amongst HoF pitchers since 1960 it tells a different story about how truly effective he was on the mound and just why his net advantage and win% were so low.
Nolan is deserving of the Hall of Fame, but he is definitely overrated.
Interesting statistic.
I see Pedro at #3, he's 8th all time in WHIP too. including an insane 0.737 in 2000.
In a 1,000 years I never would have guessed Ford is so high on that list.
Very interesting.
whitey was awesome. his cards should be untouchable.
He most definitely was. I always felt he never got his true respect because those teams were so stacked. It felt like everyone was like 'of course you should be great on those teams'. Very unfair because he was really really good.
Plus he kept up with Mantle in the drink department. Occasionally even surpassing him.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Prednisone is very bitter...and I was on a maintenance dose of 20mg/day for 20 years to manage inflammation from ulcerative colitis( an auto-immune disorder in which the immune system attacks the colon resulting in significant inflammation).
I mentioned it over in the OPC thread, but perhaps this is the more appropriate place. In the Memory lane auction that just ended, a PSA 8/10 68 topps ryan rookie sold for $116,000.00
an absolutely insane price for any autographed Ryan card. in the same auction, an unsigned psa 8 ryan rookie sold for just a tic under $20k. that means someone spent nearly $100k on a ryan autograph which can be had any day of the week for a $150 fee from the Nolan Ryan foundation. Ryan has signed TONS of autos in his life. probably only Rose and Feller have signed more. maybe Ripken.
Everyone slagging on this guy.No proof of anything of course and we're talking about one of the most motivated people to train his body to pitch and last as long as Ryan did. Sure, it must be steroids.
@craig44 said:
I mentioned it over in the OPC thread, but perhaps this is the more appropriate place. In the Memory lane auction that just ended, a PSA 8/10 68 topps ryan rookie sold for $116,000.00
an absolutely insane price for any autographed Ryan card. in the same auction, an unsigned psa 8 ryan rookie sold for just a tic under $20k. that means someone spent nearly $100k on a ryan autograph which can be had any day of the week for a $150 fee from the Nolan Ryan foundation. Ryan has signed TONS of autos in his life. probably only Rose and Feller have signed more. maybe Ripken.
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
@craig44 said:
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
@craig44 said:
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
well, PSA alone has graded over 2700 ryan rookies grade 7 or higher. that number would only be higher if we added BGS/SGC copies. conservatively over 3000 high grade copies.
there is nothing at all rare about a ryan auto. do you think there are 1000 people who would/could spend well over $100,000 on a high grade auto'd ryan rookie? 500 people?
I dont think so. the buyer spent almost $100,000 on a $150 dollar auto.
To take a graded 8 and remove it, have it signed and then regraded an 8 is nearly impossible. It takes someone like HEritage auctions, or 4sc or someone with "close ties" to psa to get this done. the chances of buying a raw nm-mt card and having Ryan sign it and then get an 8 with a 10 auto, once again sounds nearly impossible.
These news flashes of these high prices draws the attention of the general public. Shows the general public what's possible within the card field, just not so probable for most. Kind of like the powerball and related lottery games.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@olb31 said:
To take a graded 8 and remove it, have it signed and then regraded an 8 is nearly impossible. It takes someone like HEritage auctions, or 4sc or someone with "close ties" to psa to get this done. the chances of buying a raw nm-mt card and having Ryan sign it and then get an 8 with a 10 auto, once again sounds nearly impossible.
I know someone who just did this with a PSA 8 Topps Ryan rookie, had it signed and came back a PSA 6
@craig44 said:
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
well, PSA alone has graded over 2700 ryan rookies grade 7 or higher. that number would only be higher if we added BGS/SGC copies. conservatively over 3000 high grade copies.
there is nothing at all rare about a ryan auto. do you think there are 1000 people who would/could spend well over $100,000 on a high grade auto'd ryan rookie? 500 people?
I dont think so. the buyer spent almost $100,000 on a $150 dollar auto.
I think you’re missing the point. A high grade Ryan rookie WITH a high grade Ryan auto is not easy to acquire. You base your assessment on raw numbers in a population report, but you must take into account the insistence that certain kinds of cards are tougher than others. There are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels and we aren’t them either by design or by choice. They want what they want. They have plenty to spend. That’s why 100K isn’t at all shocking or the limit.
@olb31 said:
To take a graded 8 and remove it, have it signed and then regraded an 8 is nearly impossible. It takes someone like HEritage auctions, or 4sc or someone with "close ties" to psa to get this done. the chances of buying a raw nm-mt card and having Ryan sign it and then get an 8 with a 10 auto, once again sounds nearly impossible.
I agree due to census median enforcement. However one can consign via those entities and they WILL get it done. With the current price differential look for many to do so
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
@craig44 said:
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
well, PSA alone has graded over 2700 ryan rookies grade 7 or higher. that number would only be higher if we added BGS/SGC copies. conservatively over 3000 high grade copies.
there is nothing at all rare about a ryan auto. do you think there are 1000 people who would/could spend well over $100,000 on a high grade auto'd ryan rookie? 500 people?
I dont think so. the buyer spent almost $100,000 on a $150 dollar auto.
I think you’re missing the point. A high grade Ryan rookie WITH a high grade Ryan auto is not easy to acquire. You base your assessment on raw numbers in a population report, but you must take into account the insistence that certain kinds of cards are tougher than others. There are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels and we aren’t them either by design or by choice. They want what they want. They have plenty to spend. That’s why 100K isn’t at all shocking or the limit.
I will disagree that 100k is not at all shocking for that card. you get in on a group sub with one of the big guys like 4sc etc, you will eventually get that 8. even if you have to resub a few times.
the 68 ryan is not a tough card. not even close to a high number.
I will agree with your statement of "there are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels" that sort of makes my point. every one of these that sells will take a huge percentage of potential buyers out of the running. say there are 5 people with the $ and desire to own a high grade signed rookie of nolan. after the first one sells, 20% of the market is satiated. each additional sale will greatly decrease.
remember, we are talking about a $150 auto of a living, signing HOFer...
@olb31 said:
To take a graded 8 and remove it, have it signed and then regraded an 8 is nearly impossible. It takes someone like HEritage auctions, or 4sc or someone with "close ties" to psa to get this done. the chances of buying a raw nm-mt card and having Ryan sign it and then get an 8 with a 10 auto, once again sounds nearly impossible.
I know someone who just did this with a PSA 8 Topps Ryan rookie, had it signed and came back a PSA 6
Absolutely. In these days I'd never take anything out like that and regrade. Crazy-risky.
@craig44 said:
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
well, PSA alone has graded over 2700 ryan rookies grade 7 or higher. that number would only be higher if we added BGS/SGC copies. conservatively over 3000 high grade copies.
there is nothing at all rare about a ryan auto. do you think there are 1000 people who would/could spend well over $100,000 on a high grade auto'd ryan rookie? 500 people?
I dont think so. the buyer spent almost $100,000 on a $150 dollar auto.
I think you’re missing the point. A high grade Ryan rookie WITH a high grade Ryan auto is not easy to acquire. You base your assessment on raw numbers in a population report, but you must take into account the insistence that certain kinds of cards are tougher than others. There are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels and we aren’t them either by design or by choice. They want what they want. They have plenty to spend. That’s why 100K isn’t at all shocking or the limit.
I will disagree that 100k is not at all shocking for that card. you get in on a group sub with one of the big guys like 4sc etc, you will eventually get that 8. even if you have to resub a few times.
the 68 ryan is not a tough card. not even close to a high number.
I will agree with your statement of "there are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels" that sort of makes my point. every one of these that sells will take a huge percentage of potential buyers out of the running. say there are 5 people with the $ and desire to own a high grade signed rookie of nolan. after the first one sells, 20% of the market is satiated. each additional sale will greatly decrease.
remember, we are talking about a $150 auto of a living, signing HOFer...
Sure. Whatever you say. Paint scenarios. Damn the torpedoes.
I think that anytime a high profile item sells big and leaves some potential buyers out of running, it simply encourages more interest and welcomes a greater percentage of people who become enchanted with the thought of owning a big money card, not reduced. You insist on referencing a $150 autograph, but fail to realize that competitive rich people don't care about that, same as they didn't care about how it used to cost $5 to get an extremely valuable GEM MINT 10 card into a PSA holder. They still paid big for the top tier stuff. Nothing has changed. Big money does what it does. It doesn't care about what comes cheap.
This reminds me of 2016, when a small group of people managed to pump the Jordan rookie. The PSA 8 was going for as much as 30k. By 2017 it was back to 2k.
Comments
Nolan was diagnosed with a partially torn UCL after the 1986 season I believe. He would have been 39 at the time. Dr. Jobe said surgery. Nolan decided to rest it. he then pitched another 7 seasons with that partially torn UCL. I have no idea if PED was involved but i have some suspicions...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That sounds about right. Ryan said it scarred over. Whether or not he used steroids (or anything else) for treatment or for any particular advantage is quite speculative though.
Prednizone?
I rubbed in some red meat and motor oil and it's better.
Plus he kept up with Mantle in the drink department. Occasionally even surpassing him.
No gunpowder?
Tastes better too. I hated taking Prednisone, if it happened to nick the side of your throat on the way down it tasted horrible.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Prednisone is very bitter...and I was on a maintenance dose of 20mg/day for 20 years to manage inflammation from ulcerative colitis( an auto-immune disorder in which the immune system attacks the colon resulting in significant inflammation).
A PSA-8 1968 Nolan Ryan Rookie sold for a record for the grade last night in a Memory Lane Auction…for $19,500+.
THERE IS NO END FOR HIS CARDS RIGHT NOW.
agreed, he is on fire!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
There is always an end for everything. EVERYTHING! There is also no such thing as unlimited upward Trajectory
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Looking at these prices, I'm seriously thinking about selling my high grade 69 topps Ryan.
2025 SEC bowl record 4-10
SEC bowl record vs BIG TEN last two years 2-8
I mentioned it over in the OPC thread, but perhaps this is the more appropriate place. In the Memory lane auction that just ended, a PSA 8/10 68 topps ryan rookie sold for $116,000.00
an absolutely insane price for any autographed Ryan card. in the same auction, an unsigned psa 8 ryan rookie sold for just a tic under $20k. that means someone spent nearly $100k on a ryan autograph which can be had any day of the week for a $150 fee from the Nolan Ryan foundation. Ryan has signed TONS of autos in his life. probably only Rose and Feller have signed more. maybe Ripken.
total insanity!!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Everyone slagging on this guy.No proof of anything of course and we're talking about one of the most motivated people to train his body to pitch and last as long as Ryan did. Sure, it must be steroids.
Fools and their money.
2025 SEC bowl record 4-10
SEC bowl record vs BIG TEN last two years 2-8
to add to my previous comment about the 8/10 ryan rookie, i would not deface a high grade ryan rookie with a $150 dollar auto anyways. in fact, that was the prevailing thought in the hobby when it came to in person autographed cards up until about 15 minutes ago before the social media "influencers" came around.
if one was to get a vintage card signed, the VAST majority of those in the hobby would get a nicely centered VG-EX example signed. definitely not a really high grade card.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
There is no limit to the supply of ink, but the availability of Ryan rookies does have somewhat of a limit and some folks who want one won’t mind a mid or lower grade example while others will feed into the good-better-best concept and spend more. The “rarity” of having a signed high grade example is what makes it attractive.
well, PSA alone has graded over 2700 ryan rookies grade 7 or higher. that number would only be higher if we added BGS/SGC copies. conservatively over 3000 high grade copies.
there is nothing at all rare about a ryan auto. do you think there are 1000 people who would/could spend well over $100,000 on a high grade auto'd ryan rookie? 500 people?
I dont think so. the buyer spent almost $100,000 on a $150 dollar auto.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
To take a graded 8 and remove it, have it signed and then regraded an 8 is nearly impossible. It takes someone like HEritage auctions, or 4sc or someone with "close ties" to psa to get this done. the chances of buying a raw nm-mt card and having Ryan sign it and then get an 8 with a 10 auto, once again sounds nearly impossible.
These news flashes of these high prices draws the attention of the general public. Shows the general public what's possible within the card field, just not so probable for most. Kind of like the powerball and related lottery games.
I know someone who just did this with a PSA 8 Topps Ryan rookie, had it signed and came back a PSA 6
I think you’re missing the point. A high grade Ryan rookie WITH a high grade Ryan auto is not easy to acquire. You base your assessment on raw numbers in a population report, but you must take into account the insistence that certain kinds of cards are tougher than others. There are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels and we aren’t them either by design or by choice. They want what they want. They have plenty to spend. That’s why 100K isn’t at all shocking or the limit.
I agree due to census median enforcement. However one can consign via those entities and they WILL get it done. With the current price differential look for many to do so
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I will disagree that 100k is not at all shocking for that card. you get in on a group sub with one of the big guys like 4sc etc, you will eventually get that 8. even if you have to resub a few times.
the 68 ryan is not a tough card. not even close to a high number.
I will agree with your statement of "there are limited numbers of wealthy people who can compete at the highest levels" that sort of makes my point. every one of these that sells will take a huge percentage of potential buyers out of the running. say there are 5 people with the $ and desire to own a high grade signed rookie of nolan. after the first one sells, 20% of the market is satiated. each additional sale will greatly decrease.
remember, we are talking about a $150 auto of a living, signing HOFer...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Absolutely. In these days I'd never take anything out like that and regrade. Crazy-risky.
Sure. Whatever you say. Paint scenarios. Damn the torpedoes.
I think that anytime a high profile item sells big and leaves some potential buyers out of running, it simply encourages more interest and welcomes a greater percentage of people who become enchanted with the thought of owning a big money card, not reduced. You insist on referencing a $150 autograph, but fail to realize that competitive rich people don't care about that, same as they didn't care about how it used to cost $5 to get an extremely valuable GEM MINT 10 card into a PSA holder. They still paid big for the top tier stuff. Nothing has changed. Big money does what it does. It doesn't care about what comes cheap.
This reminds me of 2016, when a small group of people managed to pump the Jordan rookie. The PSA 8 was going for as much as 30k. By 2017 it was back to 2k.