@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
PCGS does slab some over strikes and tokens.
"Some"? Which ones, and what determines whether or not they will slab it?
My understanding was that they do not accept Dan Carr stuff. Has that changed?
If so, I wonder why HSN is talking about crossing to them rather than just offering it?
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
PCGS does slab some over strikes and tokens.
.
.... yes, if listed here: Krause Unusuals (listed in the US Section). https://www.pcgs.com/tokensandmedals
.... but this one is not listed, nor it will it be listed, until perhaps a new edition comes out, but even then, not likely.
And yeah, that part, about folks crossing them to NGC or PCGS....just ain't happenin'.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
PCGS does slab some over strikes and tokens.
"Some"? Which ones, and what determines whether or not they will slab it?
My understanding was that they do not accept Dan Carr stuff. Has that changed?
If so, I wonder why HSN is talking about crossing to them rather than just offering it?
@NJCoin said:
Right. Now tell me how many Draped Bust overstrikes he is making and selling for $35 less. And then tell me how many other coins I can buy directly from Dan for that $15 shipping fee (unlimited), which really means the Draped Bust is $50 less. Then we can have an apples to apples conversation about value and overpriced.
How about when you buy coins raw, then you still need to get them graded MS70 by ANACS to be a true apples to apples comparison. The $35 difference evaporates right there.
Does it, though? Is an ANACS MS70 worth any premium, any at all, in the market?
.
Generally, yes, an ANACS MS70 is worth more than an MS69 for Carr overstrikes.
My opinion is based on buying & selling & collecting over 200 Carr products. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in with a different opinion.
There is one scenario I can imagine where there might be little or no premium for MS70 vs MS69 for Carr overstrikes...
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
For example, this was graded in June2016:
.
In-hand, this looks to me like MS70. But I won't re-submit it because it's part of my not-for-resale collection and, maybe more importantly, I don't want to risk losing the blue-ink autograph.
Interestingly, around the same time ANACS stopped using Dan's blue-ink autographs, ICG started grading Carr overstrikes -- with some earning MS70.
Maybe not coincidentally, that's when ANACS changed their grading policy to allow MS70 on Carr overstrikes.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
@NJCoin said:
Right. Now tell me how many Draped Bust overstrikes he is making and selling for $35 less. And then tell me how many other coins I can buy directly from Dan for that $15 shipping fee (unlimited), which really means the Draped Bust is $50 less. Then we can have an apples to apples conversation about value and overpriced.
How about when you buy coins raw, then you still need to get them graded MS70 by ANACS to be a true apples to apples comparison. The $35 difference evaporates right there.
Does it, though? Is an ANACS MS70 worth any premium, any at all, in the market?
.
Generally, yes, an ANACS MS70 is worth more than an MS69 for Carr overstrikes.
My opinion is based on buying & selling & collecting over 200 Carr products. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in with a different opinion.
There is one scenario I can imagine where there might be little or no premium for MS70 vs MS69 for Carr overstrikes...
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
For example, this was graded in June2016:
.
In-hand, this looks to me like MS70. But I won't re-submit it because it's part of my not-for-resale collection and, maybe more importantly, I don't want to risk losing the blue-ink autograph.
Interestingly, around the same time ANACS stopped using Dan's blue-ink autographs, ICG started grading Carr overstrikes -- with some earning MS70.
Maybe not coincidentally, that's when ANACS changed their grading policy to allow MS70 on Carr overstrikes.
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
PCGS does slab some over strikes and tokens.
"Some"? Which ones, and what determines whether or not they will slab it?
My understanding was that they do not accept Dan Carr stuff. Has that changed?
If so, I wonder why HSN is talking about crossing to them rather than just offering it?
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
I'm not saying anyone is "doomed." Or that this is going to in any way detract from the value of anything else Dan has produced to date.
I'm just saying that it's kind of funny to all of a sudden be a Magic Mike fan just because he is now mass marketing Dan Carr stuff. Or to think Dan Carr stuff, at 100x the typical mintage, and at a significant premium to the typical price, is "reasonable." That's all.
HSN has always sold things we know and love, at prices far in excess of what they are available for elsewhere. No one ever thought that was a great thing because he was bringing new people into the hobby. In fact, the consensus has always been that it's a bad thing, because when people learn the true value of what they are overpaying for, that they would be turned off from the hobby. I just love how this is somehow different.
Because the fact remains that anyone assembling the complete set of these, with a mintage anything close to 10K, at a price in excess of $1100, when they contain nothing more than 5 ounces of 2026 bullion ASEs, even in ANACS MS70, are going to be every bit as buried in them as in anything else anyone else buys from HSN. Even though they will surely be every bit as lovely as anything else Dan produces.
People here who are otherwise very clear eyed with respect to what HSN and its TV brethren are and are not to numismatics seem to have a blind spot here with this.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
.
I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
.
I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
Correct. I am just sharing observations.
Which I guess includes soliciting opinions and seeking reactions. But certainly not seeking information. I already know what the MS70 premium is when every single coin is a MS 70. I was just wondering whether or not the person I was responding to did.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
I'm not saying anyone is "doomed." Or that this is going to in any way detract from the value of anything else Dan has produced to date.
I'm just saying that it's kind of funny to all of a sudden be a Magic Mike fan just because he is now mass marketing Dan Carr stuff. Or to think Dan Carr stuff, at 100x the typical mintage, and at a significant premium to the typical price, is "reasonable." That's all.
HSN has always sold things we know and love, at prices far in excess of what they are available for elsewhere. No one ever thought that was a great thing because he was bringing new people into the hobby. In fact, the consensus has always been that it's a bad thing, because when people learn the true value of what they are overpaying for, that they would be turned off from the hobby. I just love how this is somehow different.
Because the fact remains that anyone assembling the complete set of these, with a mintage anything close to 10K, at a price in excess of $1100, when they contain nothing more than 5 ounces of 2026 bullion ASEs, even in ANACS MS70, are going to be every bit as buried in them as in anything else anyone else buys from HSN. Even though they will surely be every bit as lovely as anything else Dan produces.
People here who are otherwise very clear eyed with respect to what HSN and its TV brethren are and are not to numismatics seem to have a blind spot here with this.
I understand the point you are making and agree with you, although at the same time I wanted to order the D Carr Minute Man privy ASE. I like Dan's work, what this item is, and wanted it for the SQC. I justified it to myself with a 15% discount offer and free shipping from HSN, unfortunately they will not ship to my state, and I couldn't justify it from CSN at the same price, with no discount and without free shipping. I have only one other time purchased or considered purchasing an item from HSN, a Canadian maple leaf for their 150th that was exclusive to HSN, and also held great meaning to me.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
I'm not saying anyone is "doomed." Or that this is going to in any way detract from the value of anything else Dan has produced to date.
I'm just saying that it's kind of funny to all of a sudden be a Magic Mike fan just because he is now mass marketing Dan Carr stuff. Or to think Dan Carr stuff, at 100x the typical mintage, and at a significant premium to the typical price, is "reasonable." That's all.
HSN has always sold things we know and love, at prices far in excess of what they are available for elsewhere. No one ever thought that was a great thing because he was bringing new people into the hobby. In fact, the consensus has always been that it's a bad thing, because when people learn the true value of what they are overpaying for, that they would be turned off from the hobby. I just love how this is somehow different.
Because the fact remains that anyone assembling the complete set of these, with a mintage anything close to 10K, at a price in excess of $1100, when they contain nothing more than 5 ounces of 2026 bullion ASEs, even in ANACS MS70, are going to be every bit as buried in them as in anything else anyone else buys from HSN. Even though they will surely be every bit as lovely as anything else Dan produces.
People here who are otherwise very clear eyed with respect to what HSN and its TV brethren are and are not to numismatics seem to have a blind spot here with this.
I understand the point you are making and agree with you, although at the same time I wanted to order the D Carr Minute Man privy ASE. I like Dan's work, what this item is, and wanted it for the SQC. I justified it to myself with a 15% discount offer and free shipping from HSN, unfortunately they will not ship to my state, and I couldn't justify it from CSN at the same price, with no discount and without free shipping. I have only one other time purchased or considered purchasing an item from HSN, a Canadian maple leaf for their 150th that was exclusive to HSN, and also held great meaning to me.
If you like it, you like. No need to justify.
I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of everyone always pooping all over Mike and HSN, until now, with this. I wonder why HSN won't ship to you, since they are set up to collect sales tax from everyone, everywhere?
FWIW, given the numbers involved, and who they are selling to, I have a feeling a ton of them will be available in the secondary market in a few months at prices approaching spot.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
.
I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
It was just a matter of time until he made his way to this 'pot'.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
I'm not saying anyone is "doomed." Or that this is going to in any way detract from the value of anything else Dan has produced to date.
I'm just saying that it's kind of funny to all of a sudden be a Magic Mike fan just because he is now mass marketing Dan Carr stuff. Or to think Dan Carr stuff, at 100x the typical mintage, and at a significant premium to the typical price, is "reasonable." That's all.
HSN has always sold things we know and love, at prices far in excess of what they are available for elsewhere. No one ever thought that was a great thing because he was bringing new people into the hobby. In fact, the consensus has always been that it's a bad thing, because when people learn the true value of what they are overpaying for, that they would be turned off from the hobby. I just love how this is somehow different.
Because the fact remains that anyone assembling the complete set of these, with a mintage anything close to 10K, at a price in excess of $1100, when they contain nothing more than 5 ounces of 2026 bullion ASEs, even in ANACS MS70, are going to be every bit as buried in them as in anything else anyone else buys from HSN. Even though they will surely be every bit as lovely as anything else Dan produces.
People here who are otherwise very clear eyed with respect to what HSN and its TV brethren are and are not to numismatics seem to have a blind spot here with this.
I understand the point you are making and agree with you, although at the same time I wanted to order the D Carr Minute Man privy ASE. I like Dan's work, what this item is, and wanted it for the SQC. I justified it to myself with a 15% discount offer and free shipping from HSN, unfortunately they will not ship to my state, and I couldn't justify it from CSN at the same price, with no discount and without free shipping. I have only one other time purchased or considered purchasing an item from HSN, a Canadian maple leaf for their 150th that was exclusive to HSN, and also held great meaning to me.
If you like it, you like. No need to justify.
I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of everyone always pooping all over Mike and HSN, until now, with this. I wonder why HSN won't ship to you, since they are set up to collect sales tax from everyone, everywhere?
FWIW, given the numbers involved, and who they are selling to, I have a feeling a ton of them will be available in the secondary market in a few months at prices approaching spot.
Certainly nothing to do with CA sales taxes, they will ship other coins to CA residents and charge the tax when required.
I could try to have them shipped to a non-CA address, but I decided to hold off on trying to get these. The mintages are high enough that I know it's just a matter of time before I see them locally on the secondary market at coin shops or coin shows. Even today, I still see other Dan Carr home shopping products regularly like the 2009 Eagle proof overstrikes and the 2007 Alternate Presidential Set. I'll just be patient, maybe I'll get them for less, maybe not.
That said, I too wondered why CA residents were not welcome to buy these on HSN so I asked AI. In summary, AI guesses that it's California's more strict consumer protection laws. Not sure if that's accurate, but could just be a decision to limit potential liability. Here's what AI spit out and I did NOT verify any of this info:
FROM AI:
California has the strictest consumer protection laws in the country (specifically regarding "authenticity" and "collectibles"), and Dan Carr’s coins sit in a legal grey area that makes them "toxic" inventory for a major corporation like HSN to sell in that specific state.
Here is the reality of why HSN’s legal team likely flagged California as a "Do Not Ship" zone for these specific items:
The "Deceptive Marketing" Class Action Trap
California has aggressively enforced laws against "deceptive practices" (Business and Professions Code 17200).
The Problem: Dan Carr’s coins are "fantasy" overstrikes. They are genuine US legal tender Silver Eagles that have been physically altered to show a date or mint mark that does not officially exist (e.g., a "2026-D" Silver Eagle struck in Denver, when the US Mint might not have made one).
The Risk: In most states, this is considered "numismatic art." In California, a consumer could sue HSN claiming they were "deceived" into thinking they bought an official US Mint rarity. Because HSN is a massive corporation (unlike a small eBay seller), they are a prime target for a class-action lawsuit. Blocking California removes the risk of being sued for selling "fake" legal tender.
California Civil Code 1739.7 (The "Autographed" Loophole)
This is a specific California law regulating the sale of "autographed" sports memorabilia and collectibles.
The Trap: The law defines "dealers" very strictly and requires them to provide a rigorous Certificate of Authenticity (COA) with specific warranty language for any "signed" or "marked" collectible sold for over $50.
The Connection: Dan Carr's coins feature a "privy mark" (his artist signature). California regulators can interpret this privy mark as an "autograph" or "personal mark" on a limited edition collectible.
The Dealbreaker: If HSN sells it, they must provide the California-compliant COA and warranty. If they fail to include that specific legal document, the buyer can sue for 10 times the damages. HSN likely does not want to generate a custom legal warranty document just for California residents on this one niche product.
The "Altered" vs. "Counterfeit" Distinction
While Federal law (Hobby Protection Act) allows "fantasy" coins if they don't copy an existing coin, California state law is stricter on "implied warranties."
HSN sells these as "Silver Eagles."
If a California court decides that overstriking a legal tender coin turns it into a "replica" or "slug" rather than a coin, HSN could be liable for selling counterfeit goods under state statutes.
Carr fights this definition vigorously (and legally, he is usually in the clear), but HSN's corporate lawyers are risk-averse. They would rather lose the California sales than risk a single court case establishing a precedent that they sold "defaced currency" to consumers.
I have 3 or 4 live signature ANACS Slabs with multiple fracture lines in plastic that I am good with keeping them the way they are due to hand signed COA.
I have not noticed PCGS or NGC slabs shatter cracking outward from around the coin, the defects are just confined to ANACS roll top.
@NJCoin said:
Right. Now tell me how many Draped Bust overstrikes he is making and selling for $35 less. And then tell me how many other coins I can buy directly from Dan for that $15 shipping fee (unlimited), which really means the Draped Bust is $50 less. Then we can have an apples to apples conversation about value and overpriced.
How about when you buy coins raw, then you still need to get them graded MS70 by ANACS to be a true apples to apples comparison. The $35 difference evaporates right there.
Does it, though? Is an ANACS MS70 worth any premium, any at all, in the market?
.
Generally, yes, an ANACS MS70 is worth more than an MS69 for Carr overstrikes.
My opinion is based on buying & selling & collecting over 200 Carr products. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in with a different opinion.
There is one scenario I can imagine where there might be little or no premium for MS70 vs MS69 for Carr overstrikes...
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
For example, this was graded in June2016:
.
In-hand, this looks to me like MS70. But I won't re-submit it because it's part of my not-for-resale collection and, maybe more importantly, I don't want to risk losing the blue-ink autograph.
Interestingly, around the same time ANACS stopped using Dan's blue-ink autographs, ICG started grading Carr overstrikes -- with some earning MS70.
Maybe not coincidentally, that's when ANACS changed their grading policy to allow MS70 on Carr overstrikes.
@COCollector said:
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
Now I gotta go back and look at my old slabs. I knew about the 69-cap but not the timing, and the blue/black ink is news to me. All of my overstrikes have the green Moonlight Mint label except one -- a 1965-D Peace in the classic ANACS yellow so probably missing the signature altogether. I almost sent it in for reholdering just for consistency purposes but held back because I still don't know if they'll cross to the green label or if I should just leave it as-is.
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
.
I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
It was just a matter of time until he made his way to this 'pot'.
Yes, just a matter of time. Sorry for pooping on your HSN parade.
This is subjective, but the market doesn't pay as much for an ANACS 70 as a PCGS 70 simply because PCGS gives out fewer 70 grades. It doesn't mean the coin isn't really a 70 overall. I trust ANACS
Has anyone ever submitted an ANACS 70 to cross over to PCGS ? (probably not, because there is a risk of a downgrade based on pride)
“When you don't know what you're talking about, it's hard to know when you're finished.” - Tommy Smothers
I'm surprised they didn't ask him to do a 2026 Omega Lincoln cent since the Omega cents of 2025 did so well. Also the margins would be much higher since it could be struck on a common Lincoln cent of past years. Daniel could even put a fingerprint on each one to mimic the US Mint.
@COCollector said:
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
Now I gotta go back and look at my old slabs. I knew about the 69-cap but not the timing, and the blue/black ink is news to me. All of my overstrikes have the green Moonlight Mint label except one -- a 1965-D Peace in the classic ANACS yellow so probably missing the signature altogether. I almost sent it in for reholdering just for consistency purposes but held back because I still don't know if they'll cross to the green label or if I should just leave it as-is.
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I believe there may be some overlap; that is, the earliest black-ink signatures might still have been subject to ANAC's MS69 policy. For example...
The left slab was graded MS69 in March2017; in-hand I think it deserves an MS70. The right slab was graded MS70 in March2022.
Also, did you notice the difference in signatures?
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It's not a photographic artifact: In-hand, the slab on the right has a thicker black-ink signature. Only my 2017-graded overstrike slabs have the finer signature.
Unfortunately I don't have any overstrike examples graded from 2018 - 2021. So I can only look at my more recent slabs, which all have the thicker signature.
Of course, it'd be great if we knew which serial numbers corresponded to the different signatures & products & MS69 grading policy. But I doubt all that info is available, at least not publicly.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Definitely was a cap at ANACS 69 on the Dan Carr pieces early on. Went back and looked at my submissions.
We sent our 2015 Glendale Coin Club medals in for grading June 2015, all capped at MS69 and all have the blue ink hand signatures.
We sent our 2016 Glendale Coin Club medals in for grading in August/September 2016 and we did get back some in MS70 and all have the blue ink hand signatures.
Would have to dig through some later submissions to see when the blue ink labels ran out and switched to the printed.
On another note, starting to getting excited about our 2026 Glendale Coin Club medals coming later this year!!! USA250!!! Thank you in advance, Dan!!!
@NJCoin said:
Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
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I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
It was just a matter of time until he made his way to this 'pot'.
Yes, just a matter of time. Sorry for pooping on your HSN parade.
@Nickpatton said:
I’m gonna go out on a limb on this one……………………………………….probably NOT‼️‼️‼️
It's not. Google Lens / reverse search for that image (reverse side), tells us "Based on the image provided, this appears to be an Eisenhower Dollar Proof Coin, which was minted from 1971 to 1978". 🙄
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
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The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
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Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
About them all being ms 70 i would think that is just Dan's way of being sure everybody gets a top notch strike. It also means the price of the Coin after market will stay pretty reasonable in the future. A good example would be the usmint morgan dollars. The d mint mark came back mostly 69s so the 70s price took off to surprise everybody! It hit a whooping 1200 bucks at one point! Sure glad I pulled one of them from ngc.
@zonnk said:
About them all being ms 70 .... also means the price of the Coin after market will stay pretty reasonable in the future.
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Fast forward 3-5 years. We Dan Carr collectors will still be holding on to the ones that we bought in 2026. But, other buyers may not hold on to them. When these "other buyers" become sellers, I'm not convinced that these pieces will, with certainty, hold the same premium over silver spot (about 2.7x spot) due to the greater number coming back to the secondary market than a more typical low mintage product from Dan.
The 2009 DC ASE proof Die pair 3 (mintage 4155) sold for $110 when silver was about $22/oz (about 5x spot). These pieces still sell well above spot, but not 5x spot.
I would agree that these new pieces will retain a premium above spot, but not likely 2.7x spot.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I am in sales exclusion State so no Minute Man for me.
I bought my common 2009 ASE $ RE-PROOFED raw with COA for $75 16 years ago. I liked the piece due to extreme ghosting of 2009 host ASE $. These were not available new till 2010.
Silver for me is an odd duck now. I always thought if silver ever returned to $50 I'd cash out. Yet I have added some ounces for $100 lately. Cannot get enough of the 5 ounce Apollo in flawless & OGP. I was no longer ordering from Mint in 2019 as QC for me was annoying.
May 22nd one day only evnt will be interesting.
Still I live in an excluded State, not Cali, maybe I should ask AI what's up with my State ?
Why can't Colorado delivery addresses play too ?
@zonnk said:
About them all being ms 70 .... also means the price of the Coin after market will stay pretty reasonable in the future.
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Fast forward 3-5 years. We Dan Carr collectors will still be holding on to the ones that we bought in 2026. But, other buyers may not hold on to them. When these "other buyers" become sellers, I'm not convinced that these pieces will, with certainty, hold the same premium over silver spot (about 2.7x spot) due to the greater number coming back to the secondary market than a more typical low mintage product from Dan.
The 2009 DC ASE proof Die pair 3 (mintage 4155) sold for $110 when silver was about $22/oz (about 5x spot). These pieces still sell well above spot, but not 5x spot.
I would agree that these new pieces will retain a premium above spot, but not likely 2.7x spot.
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
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Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
.
Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
With all due respect, comparing one jacked up price to another is not much of a comparison. How much is APMEX PAYING for 2026 silver eagles, in quantity or otherwise?
It is bullion, so that's the value. As I type this, APMEX lists silver at $85.53, and is offering to buy at spot plus a tiny premium. Nowhere near $104-108. 20%+ is a very healthy delta for a commodity bid/ask spread.
I'm pretty sure Dan's cut of these is fairly modest. He's making his money due to the volume. The grading value is also quite nominal, given the volumes ANACS does for Mike.
All this said, you are inadvertently making my point. "The marketer's piece" -- HSN, Mr. Mezack himself, whoever Mike works for, plus the price of all the TV time CSN buys every night across the country, plus production costs for the videos, is HUGE. IOW, "a ton of jacking going on."
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
.
Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
With all due respect, comparing one jacked up price to another is not much of a comparison. How much is APMEX PAYING for 2026 silver eagles, in quantity or otherwise?
It is bullion, so that's the value. As I type this, APMEX lists silver at $85.53, and is offering to buy at spot plus a tiny premium. Nowhere near $104-108. 20%+ is a very healthy delta for a commodity bid/ask spread.
The spot price of silver or the APMEX buy price of SEs is not what Dan pays to purchase the SEs he needs to make these overstrikes.
He currently has two one-ounce silver overstrikes on his website and they are $180 for one using a SE as the host and $170 for one using a generic silver blank.
The mintages are obviously very different but anyone who is willing to pay those prices probably won't think the HSN price is too unreasonable.
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
.
Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
With all due respect, comparing one jacked up price to another is not much of a comparison. How much is APMEX PAYING for 2026 silver eagles, in quantity or otherwise?
It is bullion, so that's the value. As I type this, APMEX lists silver at $85.53, and is offering to buy at spot plus a tiny premium. Nowhere near $104-108. 20%+ is a very healthy delta for a commodity bid/ask spread.
The spot price of silver or the APMEX buy price of SEs is not what Dan pays to purchase the SEs he needs to make these overstrikes.
He currently has two one-ounce silver overstrikes on his website and they are $180 for one using a SE as the host and $170 for one using a generic silver blank.
The mintages are obviously very different but anyone who is willing to pay those prices probably won't think the HSN price is too unreasonable.
How do you know what Dan is paying to purchase the ASEs? He is buying tens of thousands of them.
What makes you think he isn't getting them direct from Mike, and he isn't just getting a fee for the striking, since it's an exclusive consignment? Whatever the cost of the host coin, and who is paying it, I'd be willing to bet it's significantly less than you imagine.
@Mr Lindy said:
Very Nice as I guessed the five would be different hosts instead of different privy marks.
Makes sense to rotate privy on same platform since the USMINT hasn't released 1776-~2026 W ASE $ in Unc yet.
Then after a couple days the 3rd product becomes available
4th issue did not get a target date
Then 5th & final July 4th product
You cannot have whole set if you do not buy this first one
7,500 made, production of Minuteman has ended
Customers will cross these into PCGS & NGC holders"
Previous video Mike said "his friends who never bought anything from him last 30 years bought a Minuteman issue"
On several videos Mike has said price on first issue "should have been $299 & not their $229 wholesale"
Happy Shopping !
I have never spent close to 2 hours watching multiple HSN product videos for one item.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
.
The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
.
Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
With all due respect, comparing one jacked up price to another is not much of a comparison. How much is APMEX PAYING for 2026 silver eagles, in quantity or otherwise?
It is bullion, so that's the value. As I type this, APMEX lists silver at $85.53, and is offering to buy at spot plus a tiny premium. Nowhere near $104-108. 20%+ is a very healthy delta for a commodity bid/ask spread.
The spot price of silver or the APMEX buy price of SEs is not what Dan pays to purchase the SEs he needs to make these overstrikes.
He currently has two one-ounce silver overstrikes on his website and they are $180 for one using a SE as the host and $170 for one using a generic silver blank.
The mintages are obviously very different but anyone who is willing to pay those prices probably won't think the HSN price is too unreasonable.
How do you know what Dan is paying to purchase the ASEs? He is buying tens of thousands of them.
What makes you think he isn't getting them direct from Mike, and he isn't just getting a fee for the striking, since it's an exclusive consignment? Whatever the cost of the host coin, and who is paying it, I'd be willing to bet it's significantly less than you imagine.
I don't know what he's paying but I have an idea of the price of silver and the sorts of premiums on SEs right now. I also know what he sells SE overstrikes for on his website. If an overstruck SE sells for $180 on his site then the cable ones are not excessive (slabbed, free shipping, profit for the marketer).
If you're going to base your claims of price jacking on the spot price of silver then why stop there? Go back and quote what the refiner pays for the raw/scrap silver. Better yet, go back even farther and quote the cost the mining company pays to mine an ounce of silver.
Comments
Well Bill of Rights, Constitution, and Independence Hall have been posited so far.
Mike says lots of things that turn out to be utter BS. In this case, if ANACS 70 has any value, why would anyone want to cross? The fact that these will all be 70s tells you all you need to know about the premium attached to ANACS MS70. At least with these.
That's before we get to the fact that PCGS and NGC do not slab Dan Carr tokens or overstrikes. If they did, and if Mike thought they were desirable, why wouldn't he be selling them, rather than advertising these as something people will be crossing? Do you ever hear anyone else on TV talking about crossing something they are selling?
I also seriously doubt any of his "friends" buy anything from him. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be friends for long after realizing how much they overpay. But I do have to admit, after seeing the reaction here, that I am sure there are people buying these who never before bought any coins from HSN.
PCGS does slab some over strikes and tokens.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
The forth one (5th), was the easiest for me‼️👍
I will guess the five planned 1776~2026 D ASE$ overstrikes are all COMISSIONED BY DISTRIBUTOR.
"Some"? Which ones, and what determines whether or not they will slab it?
My understanding was that they do not accept Dan Carr stuff. Has that changed?
If so, I wonder why HSN is talking about crossing to them rather than just offering it?
.
.... yes, if listed here: Krause Unusuals (listed in the US Section). https://www.pcgs.com/tokensandmedals
.... but this one is not listed, nor it will it be listed, until perhaps a new edition comes out, but even then, not likely.
And yeah, that part, about folks crossing them to NGC or PCGS....just ain't happenin'.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
.
Generally, yes, an ANACS MS70 is worth more than an MS69 for Carr overstrikes.
My opinion is based on buying & selling & collecting over 200 Carr products. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in with a different opinion.
There is one scenario I can imagine where there might be little or no premium for MS70 vs MS69 for Carr overstrikes...
Up until around 2017, the highest grade ANACS gave any Carr overstrike was MS69. These early slabs are easily identified by a blue-ink autograph hand-signed by Daniel Carr. Later slabs use a signature reproduced in black ink.
My point is, some MS69 Carr overstrikes might sell for MS70 money -- if they have a blue-ink autograph. But before buying, I'd want to see the blue-ink MS69 in-hand before paying an MS70 premium.
For example, this was graded in June2016:
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In-hand, this looks to me like MS70. But I won't re-submit it because it's part of my not-for-resale collection and, maybe more importantly, I don't want to risk losing the blue-ink autograph.
Interestingly, around the same time ANACS stopped using Dan's blue-ink autographs, ICG started grading Carr overstrikes -- with some earning MS70.
Maybe not coincidentally, that's when ANACS changed their grading policy to allow MS70 on Carr overstrikes.
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Okay, great. Now tell me, what do you think the premium is going to be when there are 9700 in ANACS slabs, and they are ALL 70?
There is a term for this. It's called "Jumping the Shark." Unfortunately, the forum has not yet recognized it here with these, due to excitement over our local hero going mainstream on national TV.
I'll add this-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
You ask lots of questions when you also give big opinions as though you already know everything. I already pointed out how high volume products can help low mintage past issues, it happens all the time with regular mint products.
Also if you notice there is nobody else here worried over this like you are. Why you decided to jump in here and tell us all we are now doomed because HSN is suddenly selling Carr coins at reasonable prices makes no sense.
I'm not saying anyone is "doomed." Or that this is going to in any way detract from the value of anything else Dan has produced to date.
I'm just saying that it's kind of funny to all of a sudden be a Magic Mike fan just because he is now mass marketing Dan Carr stuff. Or to think Dan Carr stuff, at 100x the typical mintage, and at a significant premium to the typical price, is "reasonable." That's all.
HSN has always sold things we know and love, at prices far in excess of what they are available for elsewhere. No one ever thought that was a great thing because he was bringing new people into the hobby. In fact, the consensus has always been that it's a bad thing, because when people learn the true value of what they are overpaying for, that they would be turned off from the hobby. I just love how this is somehow different.
Because the fact remains that anyone assembling the complete set of these, with a mintage anything close to 10K, at a price in excess of $1100, when they contain nothing more than 5 ounces of 2026 bullion ASEs, even in ANACS MS70, are going to be every bit as buried in them as in anything else anyone else buys from HSN. Even though they will surely be every bit as lovely as anything else Dan produces.
People here who are otherwise very clear eyed with respect to what HSN and its TV brethren are and are not to numismatics seem to have a blind spot here with this.
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I made the mistake of thinking NJCoin was asking questions because he wanted information & opinions.
In retrospect, I see he's just trying to stir up conflict, get attention, and/or provoke reactions.
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Correct. I am just sharing observations.
Which I guess includes soliciting opinions and seeking reactions. But certainly not seeking information. I already know what the MS70 premium is when every single coin is a MS 70. I was just wondering whether or not the person I was responding to did.
I understand the point you are making and agree with you, although at the same time I wanted to order the D Carr Minute Man privy ASE. I like Dan's work, what this item is, and wanted it for the SQC. I justified it to myself with a 15% discount offer and free shipping from HSN, unfortunately they will not ship to my state, and I couldn't justify it from CSN at the same price, with no discount and without free shipping. I have only one other time purchased or considered purchasing an item from HSN, a Canadian maple leaf for their 150th that was exclusive to HSN, and also held great meaning to me.
If you like it, you like. No need to justify.
I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of everyone always pooping all over Mike and HSN, until now, with this. I wonder why HSN won't ship to you, since they are set up to collect sales tax from everyone, everywhere?
FWIW, given the numbers involved, and who they are selling to, I have a feeling a ton of them will be available in the secondary market in a few months at prices approaching spot.
It was just a matter of time until he made his way to this 'pot'.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
Certainly nothing to do with CA sales taxes, they will ship other coins to CA residents and charge the tax when required.
I could try to have them shipped to a non-CA address, but I decided to hold off on trying to get these. The mintages are high enough that I know it's just a matter of time before I see them locally on the secondary market at coin shops or coin shows. Even today, I still see other Dan Carr home shopping products regularly like the 2009 Eagle proof overstrikes and the 2007 Alternate Presidential Set. I'll just be patient, maybe I'll get them for less, maybe not.
That said, I too wondered why CA residents were not welcome to buy these on HSN so I asked AI. In summary, AI guesses that it's California's more strict consumer protection laws. Not sure if that's accurate, but could just be a decision to limit potential liability. Here's what AI spit out and I did NOT verify any of this info:
FROM AI:
California has the strictest consumer protection laws in the country (specifically regarding "authenticity" and "collectibles"), and Dan Carr’s coins sit in a legal grey area that makes them "toxic" inventory for a major corporation like HSN to sell in that specific state.
Here is the reality of why HSN’s legal team likely flagged California as a "Do Not Ship" zone for these specific items:
California has aggressively enforced laws against "deceptive practices" (Business and Professions Code 17200).
The Problem: Dan Carr’s coins are "fantasy" overstrikes. They are genuine US legal tender Silver Eagles that have been physically altered to show a date or mint mark that does not officially exist (e.g., a "2026-D" Silver Eagle struck in Denver, when the US Mint might not have made one).
The Risk: In most states, this is considered "numismatic art." In California, a consumer could sue HSN claiming they were "deceived" into thinking they bought an official US Mint rarity. Because HSN is a massive corporation (unlike a small eBay seller), they are a prime target for a class-action lawsuit. Blocking California removes the risk of being sued for selling "fake" legal tender.
This is a specific California law regulating the sale of "autographed" sports memorabilia and collectibles.
The Trap: The law defines "dealers" very strictly and requires them to provide a rigorous Certificate of Authenticity (COA) with specific warranty language for any "signed" or "marked" collectible sold for over $50.
The Connection: Dan Carr's coins feature a "privy mark" (his artist signature). California regulators can interpret this privy mark as an "autograph" or "personal mark" on a limited edition collectible.
The Dealbreaker: If HSN sells it, they must provide the California-compliant COA and warranty. If they fail to include that specific legal document, the buyer can sue for 10 times the damages. HSN likely does not want to generate a custom legal warranty document just for California residents on this one niche product.
While Federal law (Hobby Protection Act) allows "fantasy" coins if they don't copy an existing coin, California state law is stricter on "implied warranties."
HSN sells these as "Silver Eagles."
If a California court decides that overstriking a legal tender coin turns it into a "replica" or "slug" rather than a coin, HSN could be liable for selling counterfeit goods under state statutes.
Carr fights this definition vigorously (and legally, he is usually in the clear), but HSN's corporate lawyers are risk-averse. They would rather lose the California sales than risk a single court case establishing a precedent that they sold "defaced currency" to consumers.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
Me, I'm still waiting for one with a steam engine privy.
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I have 3 or 4 live signature ANACS Slabs with multiple fracture lines in plastic that I am good with keeping them the way they are due to hand signed COA.
I have not noticed PCGS or NGC slabs shatter cracking outward from around the coin, the defects are just confined to ANACS roll top.
.> @COCollector said:
Now I gotta go back and look at my old slabs. I knew about the 69-cap but not the timing, and the blue/black ink is news to me. All of my overstrikes have the green Moonlight Mint label except one -- a 1965-D Peace in the classic ANACS yellow so probably missing the signature altogether. I almost sent it in for reholdering just for consistency purposes but held back because I still don't know if they'll cross to the green label or if I should just leave it as-is.
Yes, just a matter of time. Sorry for pooping on your HSN parade.
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@dcarr - I'm curious: in your set-up, which (obv or rev) die are you using as the hammer die?
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
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Just ordered another one. The one that I have is Reverse die A. Ordering later now, so hoping to pull a Reverse die B.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
This is subjective, but the market doesn't pay as much for an ANACS 70 as a PCGS 70 simply because PCGS gives out fewer 70 grades. It doesn't mean the coin isn't really a 70 overall. I trust ANACS
Has anyone ever submitted an ANACS 70 to cross over to PCGS ? (probably not, because there is a risk of a downgrade based on pride)
I like the overstrike "impossible date" concept. Plus Dan did his signature privy mark. Clever
I'm surprised they didn't ask him to do a 2026 Omega Lincoln cent since the Omega cents of 2025 did so well. Also the margins would be much higher since it could be struck on a common Lincoln cent of past years. Daniel could even put a fingerprint on each one to mimic the US Mint.
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I believe there may be some overlap; that is, the earliest black-ink signatures might still have been subject to ANAC's MS69 policy. For example...
The left slab was graded MS69 in March2017; in-hand I think it deserves an MS70. The right slab was graded MS70 in March2022.
Also, did you notice the difference in signatures?
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It's not a photographic artifact: In-hand, the slab on the right has a thicker black-ink signature. Only my 2017-graded overstrike slabs have the finer signature.
Unfortunately I don't have any overstrike examples graded from 2018 - 2021. So I can only look at my more recent slabs, which all have the thicker signature.
Of course, it'd be great if we knew which serial numbers corresponded to the different signatures & products & MS69 grading policy. But I doubt all that info is available, at least not publicly.
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Definitely was a cap at ANACS 69 on the Dan Carr pieces early on. Went back and looked at my submissions.
We sent our 2015 Glendale Coin Club medals in for grading June 2015, all capped at MS69 and all have the blue ink hand signatures.
We sent our 2016 Glendale Coin Club medals in for grading in August/September 2016 and we did get back some in MS70 and all have the blue ink hand signatures.
Would have to dig through some later submissions to see when the blue ink labels ran out and switched to the printed.
On another note, starting to getting excited about our 2026 Glendale Coin Club medals coming later this year!!! USA250!!! Thank you in advance, Dan!!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
At the risk (nay, probablity) of going off topic, may I suggest that Dan Carr make a restrike/copy of the Lewis and Clark, Heads I win medal?
Not my parade, just buying what I like.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
I would love to see Dan do a 1776-2026 Ben Franklin Half Dollar! To commemorate America's 250th anniversary. I'd pay for that!
I’m gonna go out on a limb on this one……………………………………….probably NOT‼️‼️‼️
It's not. Google Lens / reverse search for that image (reverse side), tells us "Based on the image provided, this appears to be an Eisenhower Dollar Proof Coin, which was minted from 1971 to 1978". 🙄
My post 10,000 give-away:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1122899
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The over-strikes which do not grade MS70 are returned to me and they go through the process again. The reason that a piece might not make a 70 grade is typically due to a small struck-through piece of debris, or a planchet flaw in the host coin. Such items that are processed again are cleaned more aggressively (possibly including sand-blasting) prior to over-striking again. A few of them that could not be salvaged have been melted. But that outcome is fairly rare since the host coins are brand new 2026 Silver Eagles.
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This one is coming back as a MS69, there is something
going on my the 1st star.
The silver one is MS70 AS is 1944-D Peace Dollar.
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The wait is almost over!
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Understood. The point is not that there is anything nefarious going on with the grading. Just that when we all get a trophy, a trophy has no value. In this case, all 9700, or whatever, will be MS 70, so MS 70 isn't special, and is just an excuse or justification to jack up the price.
About them all being ms 70 i would think that is just Dan's way of being sure everybody gets a top notch strike. It also means the price of the Coin after market will stay pretty reasonable in the future. A good example would be the usmint morgan dollars. The d mint mark came back mostly 69s so the 70s price took off to surprise everybody! It hit a whooping 1200 bucks at one point! Sure glad I pulled one of them from ngc.
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Fast forward 3-5 years. We Dan Carr collectors will still be holding on to the ones that we bought in 2026. But, other buyers may not hold on to them. When these "other buyers" become sellers, I'm not convinced that these pieces will, with certainty, hold the same premium over silver spot (about 2.7x spot) due to the greater number coming back to the secondary market than a more typical low mintage product from Dan.
The 2009 DC ASE proof Die pair 3 (mintage 4155) sold for $110 when silver was about $22/oz (about 5x spot). These pieces still sell well above spot, but not 5x spot.
I would agree that these new pieces will retain a premium above spot, but not likely 2.7x spot.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I am in sales exclusion State so no Minute Man for me.
I bought my common 2009 ASE $ RE-PROOFED raw with COA for $75 16 years ago. I liked the piece due to extreme ghosting of 2009 host ASE $. These were not available new till 2010.
Silver for me is an odd duck now. I always thought if silver ever returned to $50 I'd cash out. Yet I have added some ounces for $100 lately. Cannot get enough of the 5 ounce Apollo in flawless & OGP. I was no longer ordering from Mint in 2019 as QC for me was annoying.
May 22nd one day only evnt will be interesting.
Still I live in an excluded State, not Cali, maybe I should ask AI what's up with my State ?
Why can't Colorado delivery addresses play too ?
APMEX sells 2026 silver eagles in quantity for between $104 and $108 (depending on how you pay). Add DCarr's piece of the pie, the marketer's piece, and the grading, and I don't see a ton of jacking up going on.
They are on CSNmint.com and apparently, unlike HSN, they do ship to California....and perhaps your state as well.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
With all due respect, comparing one jacked up price to another is not much of a comparison. How much is APMEX PAYING for 2026 silver eagles, in quantity or otherwise?
It is bullion, so that's the value. As I type this, APMEX lists silver at $85.53, and is offering to buy at spot plus a tiny premium. Nowhere near $104-108. 20%+ is a very healthy delta for a commodity bid/ask spread.
I'm pretty sure Dan's cut of these is fairly modest. He's making his money due to the volume. The grading value is also quite nominal, given the volumes ANACS does for Mike.
All this said, you are inadvertently making my point. "The marketer's piece" -- HSN, Mr. Mezack himself, whoever Mike works for, plus the price of all the TV time CSN buys every night across the country, plus production costs for the videos, is HUGE. IOW, "a ton of jacking going on."
The spot price of silver or the APMEX buy price of SEs is not what Dan pays to purchase the SEs he needs to make these overstrikes.
He currently has two one-ounce silver overstrikes on his website and they are $180 for one using a SE as the host and $170 for one using a generic silver blank.
The mintages are obviously very different but anyone who is willing to pay those prices probably won't think the HSN price is too unreasonable.
Ahhh if only Dan would do these
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How do you know what Dan is paying to purchase the ASEs? He is buying tens of thousands of them.
What makes you think he isn't getting them direct from Mike, and he isn't just getting a fee for the striking, since it's an exclusive consignment? Whatever the cost of the host coin, and who is paying it, I'd be willing to bet it's significantly less than you imagine.
I don't know what he's paying but I have an idea of the price of silver and the sorts of premiums on SEs right now. I also know what he sells SE overstrikes for on his website. If an overstruck SE sells for $180 on his site then the cable ones are not excessive (slabbed, free shipping, profit for the marketer).
If you're going to base your claims of price jacking on the spot price of silver then why stop there? Go back and quote what the refiner pays for the raw/scrap silver. Better yet, go back even farther and quote the cost the mining company pays to mine an ounce of silver.