Indian head cent purchase

Morgan13 · April 22, 2026 3:25PM

I liked the look of this coin so I put in a bid and won it for $142.36.
It looks good to me the surfaces look original to me. They have great luster with no scratches. A small hit on the obverse that doesnt bother me.
Every once in a while I like to buy something other then a Morgan.
Just wanted to post it to share.

hummingbird_coins · April 22, 2026 3:36PM

My main concern would be that the color of the surfaces is unnatural, but that might be due to the method of photography.

TomB · April 22, 2026 3:46PM

I hope the white balance is off on that image because the color looks processed and not original in the images.

Steven59 · April 22, 2026 3:48PM

Right - hopefully it's just the pictures - but not seeing any "luster" and the coin looks "over-dipped".

P0CKETCHANGE · April 22, 2026 3:51PM

I hate to knock a new purchase, but I agree with the first three comments. It looks like the results from soaking a brown cent in a cup of lemon juice, which I did as a science experiment a few times as a kid.

TPring · April 22, 2026 4:50PM

Well, you've likely just killed the enthusiasm the OP had for this coin and has now "wasted" $142.36.

To the OP: I don't think that the bust/head is of an actual Indian...

jmlanzaf · April 22, 2026 5:13PM

Sorry, but I agree with everyone else.

Morgan13 · April 22, 2026 6:12PM

That's a shame to hear. It looks really nice in hand and the luster does look good. You guys know your stuff and I can return the coin.

coinbuf · April 22, 2026 6:32PM

@Morgan13 said:
That's a shame to hear. It looks really nice in hand and the luster does look good. You guys know your stuff and I can return the coin.

Do you have any other photos of the coin? From these I would agree that the coin is not original.

CoinHoarder · April 22, 2026 6:39PM

Personally, I would not pay that kind of money for an Indian Cent without it being certified and slabbed.

291fifth · April 22, 2026 7:09PM

CLEANED!

Dave99B · April 22, 2026 8:35PM

Color looks very off to me. Hope I'm wrong.

Dave

jonathanb · April 22, 2026 9:12PM

@coinbuf said:

@Morgan13 said:
That's a shame to hear. It looks really nice in hand and the luster does look good. You guys know your stuff and I can return the coin.

Do you have any other photos of the coin? From these I would agree that the coin is not original.

Agreed. You're collecting coins, not pictures. If the coin looks good in hand and the pictures don't show that, then the pictures aren't accurate and neither are the comments based on those pictures,

Morgan13 · April 23, 2026 8:46AM

I must say this, I have been collecting for 10 years now. If a coin was cleaned in lemon juice I would know it. My images kinda suck but you can rest assured that I know what a real luster bloom looks like. We all search for raw coins that we can send in to get slabbed. Hoping for a good grade.
I have sent in many Morgans and I have received some pretty good grades.
I plan on sending this coin into PCGS. I will post images when it comes back. I will do this even if it comes back as cleaned.
To me I dont feel humility when someone appears to criticize something I post. We have so many different personalities on this forum. I take them for what they are worth.
I post coins with the hope that I can feel good about collecting. I feel bad for some people's reaction. Life is to short to be disgruntled.
Sharing.

coinbuf · April 23, 2026 9:05AM

@Morgan13 said:
I plan on sending this coin into PCGS. I will post images when it comes back. I will do this even if it comes back as cleaned.

Looking forward to your result, it will be educational no matter the grade.

seanq · April 23, 2026 9:07AM

@jonathanb said:

@coinbuf said:

@Morgan13 said:
That's a shame to hear. It looks really nice in hand and the luster does look good. You guys know your stuff and I can return the coin.

Do you have any other photos of the coin? From these I would agree that the coin is not original.

Agreed. You're collecting coins, not pictures. If the coin looks good in hand and the pictures don't show that, then the pictures aren't accurate and neither are the comments based on those pictures,

This is an excellent comment and observation.

With eBay turning 30 this year, lots of folks here have deep experience purchasing coins from images and then evaluating the same coin in hand. On that basis, one would have an expectation of what the coin would look like in hand based on those images. You are the only one who has seen it in person to say whether those expectations are right or wrong.

The thing that concerns me in the images shared is the deep color in the recesses of the date, on a coin with altered surfaces that spot is often unaffected. You sometimes also see dark halos around the lettering and devices, which I do not see in the photos.

Thanks for not taking the feedback here personally, I will wait with interest to see what PCGS thinks of the coin.

Sean Reynolds

Morgan13 · April 24, 2026 10:43AM

Sean
Thank you for the rational response which was also educational.

lkenefic · April 25, 2026 10:01AM

As others have just said... you have the "coin in hand" and have full appreciation of the luster and surfaces.

I only wanted to add... Macro Photography in general, and Coin Photography in particular, are not easy. Getting a faithful representation of the color (and luster) on copper presents unique challenges. Even with a decent camera, lens, and lighting... the learning curve is steep.

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 10:08AM

Another attempt at some images. Cell phone images. I tried my Canon but could not do it.

lkenefic · April 25, 2026 10:30AM

What color is the background you're shooting the image on?

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 10:31AM

@lkenefic currently white

coinbuf · April 25, 2026 2:02PM

These new images do nothing to refute the opinions of not original surfaces.

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 2:20PM

@coinbuf I didnt write that they did. I just made an effort.
Hey its no big deal really. I like the coin.
Let's just let it go at that.
Life is to short to be a curmudgeon.
Even PCGS struggles with coin images.

lkenefic · April 25, 2026 5:37PM

@Morgan13 said:
@lkenefic currently white

... as others suggested early on, try adjusting white balance. The Canon manual was a little help but trial and error... and a copy stand... helped. Good luck, and let us know how the submission goes.

alaura22 · April 25, 2026 5:50PM

Curious to what you think it would grade

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 6:05PM

@Alaura22
Thats a tricky question because I have not handled a raw uncirculated IHC. I dont want to catch any flak for answering your question but I will.
With that being said I am guessing MS64 Red after spending some time trying to develop an early eye for it.
Could it grade higher or lower I dont know.
I will say this to answer your question with some background on what I do to help me try to determine a grade on a raw coin I have no experience with.
I use PCGS coinfacts and try to compare until I find what I think is a balance.
As an example-

Coinscratch · April 25, 2026 6:49PM

I don’t think anyone here was being curmudgeon or disgruntled. When you post/share a coin here you are going to get honest hardline opinions based on your images and not what you think the coin may or may not look like in-hand.

The second images are in better focus but your white balance is still off. 😁

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 6:51PM

@Coinscratch said:
I don’t think anyone here was being curmudgeon or disgruntled. When you post/share a coin here you are going to get honest hardline opinions based on your images and not what you think the coin may or may not look like in-hand.

The second images are in better focus but your white balance is still off. 😁

I was referring to myself. I dont know what gave you the idea I was talking about others.

Coinscratch · April 25, 2026 7:24PM

@Morgan13 said:

@Coinscratch said:
I don’t think anyone here was being curmudgeon or disgruntled. When you post/share a coin here you are going to get honest hardline opinions based on your images and not what you think the coin may or may not look like in-hand.

The second images are in better focus but your white balance is still off. 😁

I was referring to myself. I dont know what gave you the idea I was talking about others.

I feel bad for some people's reaction. Life is too short to be disgruntled.
Sharing.

Coinscratch · April 25, 2026 7:26PM

My apologies it’s been a long day.

Morgan13 · April 25, 2026 7:30PM

Ive had a great day but its been long also. I worked 64 hours last week and finally got a chance to sit back and rest. I work construction. Next week will be more of the same.

asheland · April 26, 2026 2:38AM

I love the series, I buy them on occasion. I am really critical on color and very careful with my purchases.

However, the one I bought about a year ago, also graded 64 red, at least to my eyes, I think this is an original coin…

And I think my picture captures it pretty well…

In hand, does it look like this?

jmlanzaf · April 26, 2026 3:33AM

@Morgan13 said:
@coinbuf I didnt write that they did. I just made an effort.
Hey its no big deal really. I like the coin.
Let's just let it go at that.
Life is to short to be a curmudgeon.
Even PCGS struggles with coin images.

I'm not sure how offering his opinion, makes him a curmudgeon.

The color looks more natural, but it still looks processed.

Edited to add; i see you said that "curmudgeon " was aimed at yourself. That confuses me even more in the context of these posts. 😆

Coinscratch · April 26, 2026 5:47AM

Life is too short especially when you work that many hours. I work 4 days a week about 7 hours a day in an air conditioned office, wearing shorts and I make around 200k. Not too shabby for a HS drop out. Never was to popular with the jocks or the cheerleaders 🤣 some things will never change.

BillJones · April 26, 2026 6:37AM

I learned to grade coins from Photograde, some limited mentoring and the school of hard knocks. I have never stopped learning about grading, and I’ve been at it for over 65 years. You should study the free advice offered here. It’s a lot cheaper than getting ripped off by problem and over graded coins.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 9:59AM

@BillJones I do learn from the advice here. Thats why I post and spend alot of my free time popping in and out.
The frustrating part for me is I just cant get good images up.
Thats on me.
Ive learned a lesson from this thread. If I cant get good images up I will not be posting a thread on a coin.
As far as this thread goes for me it has run its course.
Thanks for the advice I appreciate it, I really do.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 10:12AM

@Coinscratch said:
Life is too short especially when you work that many hours. I work 4 days a week about 7 hours a day in an air conditioned office, wearing shorts and I make around 200k. Not too shabby for a HS drop out. Never was to popular with the jocks or the cheerleaders 🤣 some things will never change.

Why would you post your income on a coin forum or any open forum for that matter?
I dont care if you make 2 million a year and are a successful urologist.

Its about the coins man.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 10:19AM

@asheland I believe that it does. Nice coin by the way. Thanks for posting it.

MtW124 · April 26, 2026 10:27AM

Like you, I thought I had a coin that would straight grade. I was wrong and received a 91 “questionable color”grade. I thought my source was old enough to not have those issues occur. I pulled it from an old Bank of Alvarado tx roll of all Indians from when they were pulling them from circulation. I thought anyway. The roll looked good. This was 10 or so years ago.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 11:14AM

@MtW124 said:
Like you, I thought I had a coin that would straight grade. I was wrong and received a 91 “questionable color”grade. I thought my source was old enough to not have those issues occur. I pulled it from an old Bank of Alvarado tx roll of all Indians from when they were pulling them from circulation. I thought anyway. The roll looked good. This was 10 or so years ago.

Now you got me thinking I should just return it because that coin looks fine to me. It actually looks better than mine. Its only $150. I would rather put it towards one thats already graded.
I would be into this coin for what a graded coin cost.
I really jam myself up sometimes. I trusted the seller. I told him I had concerns. He is in the same state as me and has been in business for decades.
I think a return is in order.

MtW124 · April 26, 2026 11:36AM

@Morgan13 I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to say that yours wouldn’t straight grade. All I’m saying is that raw uncirculated coins are a tough nut to crack when sending them in for a straight grade in my opinion. It’s easier for me to look at XF45’s and lower semi key to key dates to send in than the uncirculated ones. For me anyway. Personally if I want a good uncirculated example I buy them in slabs.

Acarroll · April 26, 2026 11:41AM

@Morgan13 said:
Ive had a great day but its been long also. I worked 64 hours last week and finally got a chance to sit back and rest. I work construction. Next week will be more of the same.

What type of construction? I'm in underground utility construction, primarily directional drilling.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 11:51AM

@Acarroll
I manage a few crews. Let's put it that way to stay modest.

Acarroll · April 26, 2026 11:53AM

@Morgan13 said:
@Acarroll
I manage a few crews. Let's put it that way to stay modest.

I'd rather run equipment than other people.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 11:56AM

@MtW124
Dont be sorry at all.
I was focused on the lousy images I put up figuring the coin looked good to me.
When you posted that image it hit me that my odds increased 10 fold that I am wasting my time with this thing.
You did me a favor.
I see dealers who do this for a living get shot down by guys like JA who think they got a good one. Sometimes we just have to suck it up.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 12:00PM

@Acarroll said:

@Morgan13 said:
@Acarroll
I manage a few crews. Let's put it that way to stay modest.

I'd rather run equipment than other people.

You got that right man.
This hobby is a great release for me.
Some of us dont pick our occupations. Sometimes it kind of just happens. Puts food on the table and keeps a roof over my head so I deal with it. I am respected by people having earned trust over the years. I dont have time for BS.
Crap rolls down hill and thank God I am the one wiping my butt.

Coinscratch · April 26, 2026 1:19PM

@Morgan13 said:

@Coinscratch said:
Life is too short especially when you work that many hours. I work 4 days a week about 7 hours a day in an air conditioned office, wearing shorts and I make around 200k. Not too shabby for a HS drop out. Never was to popular with the jocks or the cheerleaders 🤣 some things will never change.

Why would you post your income on a coin forum or any open forum for that matter?
I dont care if you make 2 million a year and are a successful urologist.

Its about the coins man.

I have no idea.
Best of luck with it.

BillJones · April 26, 2026 1:54PM

Within the limits of photography, let's see if I can help you, @Morgan13.

Over past three years I completed a date set of cents from 1793 to date. Notice I said "date set" which means my Lincoln cents are not complete with all of the mint marks. As high school and college kid, I completed a circulated set of Indian Cents. I sold the set in the early '70s and lost my shirt on it. Call me a glutten for punishment, but I formed that set again in my old age with no intention of selling them. Let my heirs worry about about that!

I don't buy red copper unless the coin is very modern. I've been burned on it in the past, and the premiums for color are often too high for me. I buy brown and R&B.

This R&B Unc. is raw and mostly red. I bought mostly EFs and AUs for my second Indian set with some exceptions. The red on this piece is original.

This is graded PCGS MS-64, R&B. Many times I have seen these better dates with a lot red called R&B or even Brown. Often they have been messed with. The "tell" is that the red is "flat," not like the red you see on the previous coin.

This is graded PCGS MS-64, Brown. There is a trace of red, but not enough.

This is a large cent, but it's what I would call "a perfect Brown." This is graded PCGS MS-65, Brown. I my opinion, it does not get much better than this.

That sort of "honey color" you have on your OP coin usually is not a good indicator.

This 1909-S Indian is PCGS graded MS-64, R&B. I don't think it has enough color for the R&B, but the coin was the sort of 1909-S Indian I wanted in my set.

Morgan13 · April 26, 2026 2:47PM

@BillJones
I appreciate you taking the time and making the effort. Nice coins btw.
I am convinced.
I already put in the return request.
No need to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I am greatful for the help. Again that's why I post here.
There's no shame in learning. Its the not being stubborn part that always has to be overcome.
Ive got the dealer again who has been in business for decades telling me the coin is nice and original, bad pictures etc.
Id put the dealers name up but its not my style.

Morgan13 · April 28, 2026 8:45AM

I am happy to say that the coin has been returned and my refund has been initiated.
I learned alot from this experience.

jedm · April 28, 2026 7:20PM

This thread is a great example of the level of experience some of these posters have, and also how their willingness to share what they've learned over the years contributes greatly to the learning that can happen here.

Indian head cent purchase

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