Question on Potential New Set
Goob
Posts: 334 ✭✭✭✭
I’ve been considering collecting proof and/or circulation strike Franklin halves. Do you think I should? Should I not?
I have two circulation strike, (both will likely be sold at some point) and three proof (all graded by me at some point because…I honestly don’t know..!)
From what I remember for the proofs, both the 1957 and 1960 I thought could get cameo and I thought the 1958 could get a high grade…was I right? Definitely not!
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What anyone thinks you “should” do should be largely irrelevant to you. That’s a decision for you, not someone else.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It’s just, would it be smart or do I save my money on other things
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It depends what’s more important to you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Fair enough but I do like Franklin halves basically as much as I like my other sets but I don’t know how much I’d be able to balance purchases with 3 sets
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Then why not give it some thought and time before making a decision/doing anything?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
All positives and negatives for this set put into consideration in my opinion weight 50/50 for me
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Ultimately your call, as you asked for opinions I am not a fan of the series/design but have a mid-low grade MS raw set in an album that I put together many years back. I do not think this series is a "winner" from a strict financial standpoint and would (for myself) use funds for different coins. I say that because they are super common (unless you get into the ultra gem grades) and I just do not see this series becoming the must have coin anytime soon.
But as you say you like the coins then an MS64ish set should be doable for not much $'s.
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I have to echo the esteemed @MFeld, which is always a good thing to do when it comes to numismatics.
You should stay true to what you like, what you want to learn about, what you understand and what you can afford. I think Franklin half dollars are a great set because they are big and silver, they come blast white and satiny and crusty and wonderfully toned, they are affordable in circulated and mint state and gem proof, they can be brilliant or CAM or DCAM proofs, and they are a low cost (relatively) affordable set that can be completed by most folks in a reasonable amount of time.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I did the proofs first, started as a teen and finished in my 30s. I was always on the lookout but never focused. I have most of the business strikes and will probably never finish.
I wanted 65 or better on the proofs (super easy and cheap until you get to the first few years) and 64FBL or 65(fbl not required) or better in the biz strikes. Pretty much all of those are attainable for a reasonable price.
The reason I’ve abandoned the biz strike quest is because abuse I want to buy more expensive other coins now. I might sell most of them to buy other stuff, but I do like the ones I own. I definitely won’t be selling the early years of the proofs. They are special to me.
If you start either of these sets, pick some criteria and stick to them. A grade, a look, a particular characteristic (white/toned/FBL/cameo/something else), something and stick to it. It will make the search much more fun because there are so many available.
@Goob PM sent. As many have already said, make the collection what you like, what you appreciate, what you enjoy and what you understand (or care to learn the most about). In that way you will get the most enjoyment out of your pursuit.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
A Franklin set is a terrific affordable project you can have fun with. However it requires strong commitment.
Get a book or two on them. I like this one.
The Red Book one is probably also good, but I don’t have it. I want to get the giant Red Book that focused on halves, but so far only have the dime one.
Good idea, I’d probably consider the Bowers Series book although it’d probably cost just as much as an average Franklin half!
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I’m sure they’re all good. I just wish I’d had a book much earlier into my collecting. Both sets would be much better at this point.
As I look back on the last 20 years of collecting coins I've come to the realization that there are two things that I'd offer for you to consider: Have fun with your coins, and collect what interests you. About 20 years ago I was offered a Dansco with a complete set of BU halves that a co-worker of mine said she wanted to sell. Over the first couple of years I upgraded a couple of them that I thought needed to be replaced. I'm a fan of Mr. Franklin and read his "Poor Richard's Almanack" and "Autobiography" and I try to collect a few of his portraits on $100 bills to use to buy more coins when I can, so yeah for me it's a set I like. I also have one slabbed example for my type set. I don't think I've ever shown my set to anyone that was in the least bit interested to see it. Do what feels right for you, because in no way will it matter to anyone else.
So your looking for a financial Advisor?
That would require more information on your finances and your plans for at least the next few years, your Age, you're threshold for swings and well you get my drift.
I'd say if you like what you're doing and you have some extra/disposable Income it's not the worst hobby.
He's a teen ager. So....
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Looking back, if i were 17 again, I would buy NOTHING until I had 100k in retirement savings. Then I would never have to worry about money again and my peers would never catch up. Of course, at the time, waiting 10 years to start having fun would have seemed ridiculous. So... do what you want. In the end, you probably will anyway.
I often wonder how much money I would have if I had just invested the money in every coin or collectible "mistake" I ever made. Even the "winners" were usually losers of the opportunity costs were considered. But, I would have more money but had less fun. It's really an impossible calculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I would advise you to collect what you like. I collected a set of BU Franklin Haves in the late ‘60s. I lost a fortune on them when I traded them. Like most modern coins, there are lots of Mint State pieces. The market can be manipulated.
In my old age, I bought two BU sets at a show, built a set using the best coins from each set and sold the others. Then silver went up, and I have a paper profit.
I have never been a fan of Proof singles from 1950 to date. It was far more efficient to buy complete Proof sets. So I have complete Proof sets which gets me a set of Proof Franklin half dollars and the other four denominations.
I’m old and markets change. I don’t know if nice Proof sets from the early 1950s are still out there. For the later dates from 1955, they are definitely out there.
The choices are yours, but bear in mind that modern coins are not “investments” in my opinion.
At my age, I bought gold coins in the 1960s and made out like a bandit. I lost money on a circulated Indian cents. I made a lot of money on type coins. Coins are a double edged sword. With medals prices as high as they are, I wonder if the same thing would happen for a young person if they bought gold now.
And it’s the same old question. You need to know how to grade coins to buy well, even with certification.
@Goob You referenced some concern about balancing (pursuing?) three sets at once. I believe the bigger challenge will be to determine your patience in their assembly. Ask yourself do you have the discipline to be picky and delay the satisfaction of a set completion? I know my long ago teenage self would not.
I think most collectors, whether young or old, are challenged by waiting for the right coin to come along. Practicing this virtue should lead to something special depending upon the set parameters. If you had the money, you could complete the Franklin set in a matter of hours via ebay. Once approach is to look to @SanctionII as someone who could give you excellent guidance on building a cameo proof collection. He scours mint and proof sets for ones that he thinks are superb (he's picky) and then gets them graded. As I read his posts here, he's having a blast.
I like what you did with your Washington quarters where you decided you'd build an ANACs holdered set. That adds extra challenge and perhaps fun for you. I've considered doing something similar for the frankies, but I only own one! Yet if another comes around of a different date, in an OGH, and has something distinctive about it, I'll acquire it. I'm in no hurry though to build a set.
My advice would be to worry less about investment and more about doing what you enjoy in the hobby. By being careful with what you buy, you'll be happier in the long run with less collection turnover.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Depends on the gold coins. $100 invested in the S&P 500 in 1966 would be worth $28, 500 today. That's really the point. Most coins simply will not keep to up with investment portfolios.
If you invested $50 per MONTH in the S&P 500 starting in 1966, it would be worth $2.66 million today.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I do actually own one gold coin, my Russian 5 rouble; saved up for months to get it and paid $365 February last year when I was 14, when gold was at its high, it was nearly double the value, (still worth around $550 now) so I’d say it’s certainly similar although I doubt most people my age (or younger, I am old enough to get a job!) could afford any gold at this point.
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I do try to look for the right piece but opportunity for me to buy coins is sometimes just so far between so I do get tempted…and fall for it! (😅) I don’t really trust eBay much because while I’ve gotten great coins off it, there are simply too many risks!
As for my ANACS WQ set, I do think I might do something similar with my Franklin Half set, should I pursue it, although I’m not sure what yet. I will definitely say, consistency is very enjoyable and I think it’s something people should definitely try. I haven't seen many of these (if any)!
I’m not really focused whatsoever on investment, I just really don’t want to overpay or underpay. If it’s small and occasional, it’s fine but it’s happened too many times and I just really don’t want it to happen again. Of course coin values fluctuate sometimes in favor, sometimes not, but still.
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
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If you don’t want to overpay for coins, patience is required. And for many collectors (of all ages) that can be much easier said and understood than done.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I hesitate to post this, but I don't believe you could buy a basket or combined fund for the S&P 500 in 1966. I think this is something that occurred later, perhaps as early as the late 1970s. Regardless, the S&P 500 is not a static fund; it has stocks removed and added regularly, so it isn't quite the same as buying and holding one coin for decades.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The index funds date to Vogle in the late 70s. There were institutional funds earlier, although maybe not in the 60s. But that's really besides the point. The S&P just provides an easy benchmark to compare to.
Berkshire Hathaway under Buffet dates to the mid 60s. My aunt was a school teacher and started investing in stocks in the 1930s.
The point remains, even the coins that "win" don't tend to compound and match the performance of a steady investment portfolio. Investing $50 per month starting in the 1960s results in $2.7 million today. Hard to beat that with 99% of coins or other collectibles. But, as I said, I would have had less fun even though I would have been richer.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I bought a Russian 5 ruble gold coin for $20 in the 1960s. That was high retail. I bought a $5 Liberty which graded MS-64 for $31. I paid $45 for a $5 Indian that later graded MS-63 by PCGS. I paid the same amount for a $10 Liberty which graded MS-65. They told you not to be gold in the 1960s because it was a “safe investment” but not a “productive one.”
I bought numerous type coins when I was in high school which sold for multiples of the retail purchase price. The worst investments I made was in a circulated set of Indian cents.
Since we’re on the topic of kids and coins and investments, I’ll chime in that they don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Fun money is fun money. If you spend it on coins or video games or theme parks, it’s all entertainment. You’re not too young to invest in the market (I did with a growth stock mutual fund starting probably the same summer I started collecting coins). If you are able to earn money and able to budget, you can have a lot of fun while setting yourself up well for the future.
Collect coins for fun. If you have to choose coins or savings, save your money. When you’re old like me you’ll be able to buy whatever you want, within reason.
Franklins are a terrific idea! A very inexpensive way to have a lot of fun!! I believe they might have some future potential, as well. But, even if they don’t, you’ll be fine, because they’re very affordable, right now!!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
If you like the series and want to assemble a set then go for it! Worst case scenario is you end up not liking the series at some point down the road and you can sell what you’ve purchased up to that point and buy into another series that interests you.
Many people think it’s an awful design and I can definitely understand their points of view. I personally enjoy the design and the subtleties from one date/mm to the next. I’ve been an avid collector of the series for about 15 years now. I’m down to the last 5 coins to complete my registry set and still enjoy the hunt for the remaining few coins.
I have thought a few times over the years that maybe I should just sell them all and pursue other coins but could never quite pull the trigger. I’m glad I didn’t because I still enjoy pulling them out and looking at them from time to time.
If you do decide to collect the series I strongly recommend getting yourself a copy of Rick Tomaska’s guide book of Franklin and Kennedy half dollars. I got myself a copy within the first year of deciding to try to complete the series. It was an invaluable resource to me early on when I was getting familiar with the series. I would reference it before every potential purchase. It helped sway my decision to buy or pass many times.
As an avid collector of the series I’m somewhat embarrassed I didn’t know this book existed.
I’ve owned a copy of Rick’s guide book on Franklin AND Kennedy half dollars for about 15 years.
Is the book you posted much different than the one I mentioned?
I would imagine the Bowers' version of the book wouldn't be much different but I'll have to check!
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You should buy some graded ones before trying the grading game on these.
The 1950 and 1951 can be pretty expensive.
Collector, occasional seller
@FranklinHalfAddict I don’t have the one with the Kennedy’s, so I can’t say if there’s a lot of overlap or not. I would assume there is, but it would just be a guess.
I do already have a few graded Franklin halves
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
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Personally, no. But whatever floats your boat.
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I know I've posted twice (at least) in this thread, but just came back to write good luck again. When I was trying to figure out where I wanted to be in numismatics I built blast white mint state sets of Roosevelt dimes and Franklin half dollars as well as Washington quarters and had them all in those blue Whitman Deluxe (or is it Classic?) holders with the acetate slides. Eventually, I purchased the two-part Capital Plastics acrylic holders for the Washington quarter series. I took my time with these and it was several years before I really figured out where I wanted to go. Of course, this all pre-dates the internet so maybe you won't take as long.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
John Vogle?
I might put the idea of a Franklin half series on hold for a little while to add a sublayer to my ANACS Yellow Label Washington (circulation-strike) Quarter set: an ANACS Soapbox Washington Quarter PROOF set.
I got my 1953 PF 65 OBV Cam a month ago just to finish the trifecta (Rattler, Fatty, Soapbox) but honestly I really like it and its like the opposite of my circulation strike set.
What do y'all think?
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I buy expensive holders certified by NGC, PCGS and now, perhaps, CACG.
I would never chase after a set because the coins are in a certain holder, especially something like ANACS Soapbox holders which are no longer produced. What if you find a date and mint mark combination you need, but the coin the holder is over graded. Are you still going to buy it? Dealing with finding rarities is hard enough without added obsolete holders to the mix.
i pick the best looking coin, the slab is just a small criteria, there are enough coins of most dates in soapboxes that I can easily cherrypick a nice example
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
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You are seeing far more soapbox holders than I am.
Just through a quick eBay scan I’ve seen a pretty decent amount of soapbox WQ proofs, including one I got yesterday, arriving sometime next week.
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The 1963 Proof Quarter is one of the most common dates. Remember that you are working with a closed end set.
1950-1964 is fully affordable and I do already have a 1953 PF65 OBV Cam so it wouldn’t be like I’m doing this out of impulse or anything
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The older they are, the harder they get, but finding a 1953 was a good start.
Sorry, Bogle. My fat fingers. Yes, he Main Streeted funds, although they existed prior for investment banks.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Might be possible with Washington quarters, but a @BillJones said, vintage holders can be a problem. The supply is limited and you could end up paying a large holder premium. But, if that's your idea of fun, go for it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I do think there’ll be enough Soapboxes to go around. Of course that’s not to say supply won’t be an issue because most likely it will be. But the end result will hopefully be a unique set with good quality coins with holders to match.
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
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