GTG's 1809 large cents
Coin 1:
Coin 2:
Comments
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G-4
F-12
2 -
G-6 (nice at that grade!)
F15Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris2 -
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G6
F122 -
G4
F121 -
I'd say G6 and F12.
Both quite nice examples of a scarce coin (2nd scarcest after 1811/0)1 -
I'm guessing they are graded the same, fine-12.
Although the color and the lighting pronounce the detail on the second coin, the first coin has comparable wear with a terrible photo.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #16061 -
VG-08
F-12 details for facial scratches.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain1 -
10,15
1 -
VG10 and F15, although not my series at all
The first issue one seems to have a weaker strike, which I suspect could be due to the Die Marriage
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #2421 -
It's already been stated, but I agree with G-6 and F-15.
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@pursuitofliberty said:
VG10 and F15, although not my series at allThe first issue one seems to have a weaker strike, which I suspect could be due to the Die Marriage
Only one die marriage for this low mintage date, the S-280. They are also likely or nearly the same die state. But I agree coin 1 has strike weakness, either due to the planchet or die spacing/parallel issue.
Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug2 -
4 12
0 -
Sorry, having trouble editing this post; it won't let me change the title to reflect the posted grades w/o resetting the whole thread back to square one.
Coin 1:
Coin 2:
I bought this as a raw coin 6-7 years ago, from a dealer at FUN who graded it VF, but used the Greysheet, so it worked out to Fine money, which was good as the coin had a far better than average surface for an 1809 cent, and the obverse is a lighter brown than the TrueView shows.
I submitted it and was disappointed in the grade result on this, along with a 1796 and an 1808. Ah well I guess PCGS is tough on early copper. Then I saw coin 1. in an auction this week and thought “what the heck? Mine’s substantially nicer than that one!”
And there’s a big jump in price between the grades, so I’m wondering if it’s worth it to resubmit, or send it to another service….
Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug2 -
Nice coin
Investor1 -
What do you think they would grade using EAC standards?
0 -
... late to the party! I was going to go VG10 for the top coin and F12 details for the bottom coin knowing how hard PCGS has been on copper lately. I saw a full eye and I can make out the ear on the top coin... it looked a little struck through grease on the obverse. Glad you got the straight grade on the bottom coin but I was on the fence for 12 or 15...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.1 -
@ambro51 said:
What do you think they would grade using EAC standards?Well, that depends on the person doing the EAC grading; I’ve met some who are somewhat loose, and others like Bob Grellman who are very strict. Bob and others might net it to VG8, possibly along with a ( - ) sign, and probably classify it as Average. For a cent to not get a net grade and a Choice designation, it needs to be pretty much be pristine.
Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug0 -
Coin 1 as a F12 seems a little high to me. This is a coin to be graded by the obverse as the reverse is typically stronger.
As a comparison, here are my 1809's. The first is VG8 (NGC). The second is raw and would probably get a details grade If I were to send it in (which I won't).
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Yours is much better. Must resubmit.
I’ve had a hard time finding a nice low grade one for my “VG and less” set. The 1811/0 was no problem, but the 1809 is killing me. Too picky I guess.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
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Nice grades. That 1809 is what it is, nice coin 🪙
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Interesting that Coin 1, though as many think as over graded as a F12, sold for over retail F12 price guide money. Buy the grade on the holder? Or are they under valued across the spectrum? Could be the latter, as auction results for the early dates across the board were quite strong, even coins in no CAC NGC and genny holders bringing strong bids.
Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug3 -
I Would not pay fine money for coin 1 but I would pay fine money for coin 2. Either way, any 1809 large cents are great coins to have. Finding nice original coins in lower grades is hard to do sometimes.
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The first coin has excellent, high quality surfaces, but the strike seems to have made when the obverse die was out of alignment. The left side of the coin is weak as a result. If you are grading by surfaces, you might have a case for a Fine-12 grade, but from the market perspective, there is no way that I would pay Fine money for that coin.
The second coin is typical for the VG grade.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?1 -
@rec78 said:
I Would not pay fine money for coin 1 but I would pay fine money for coin 2. Either way, any 1809 large cents are great coins to have. Finding nice original coins in lower grades is hard to do sometimes.Agree on all counts. The coin I snagged hadn’t been added to the dealer’s inventory yet, and I didn’t hesitate to pull the trigger on it. And time has been on my side, as I’m into for <VG money in today’s market. PCGS pops are low, with less than 100 coins in all grades above VG.
Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug0 -
Maybe Coin 1 got the bump in grade for superior surfaces. Surfaces that clean are unusual for Classic Heads especially in circulated grades... coin 2 is sort of a conundrum for me as I see more details, but the surfaces aren't as clean...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.1 -
Agree with @BillJones on the misaligned dies, otherwise coin 1 is a beautiful lower grade classic head cent, pretty scarce as such IMO, but overgraded by the TPG. I’d love to have that coin in a G-6 or VG-8 holder, with a CAC sticker. That’s a “wheelhouse” type of coin for me.
I have a somewhat similar 1797 C3-a half cent in a PCGS-10 slab, the coin is absolutely perfect (no marks, perfect original color, really nice planchet) but it hasn’t stickered in 2 tries, likely because it’s more of a VG-8 coin.
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris1 -
Here's the 1809 cent in my date set of cents. It's graded VF-30. I like it for the date, and that's all that matters to me.
I don't care about stickers. If I like the coin and think the price is fair, I buy it. If it has a sticker, that's nice, but I won't pay a huge premium because of it.
Do you want to see a 1797 half cent? This is the most common one, a C-1. It's better than most of what I've seen on the market because it's an early die state that shows everything. One of the leading grading services unfairly body bagged it 25+ years ago. I've been around and around with grading services. I don't agree with all of their opinions.
Some people allow CAC to tell them which coins to buy. I am not one of those people.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?1 -
@BillJones thats a gorgeous C-1 and I agree with you, a sticker doesn’t “tell me which coin to buy” and my C3-a is a great example, it’s one of my favorite little half sisters and hasn’t stickered. That said, I appreciate the sticker at resale time…. No doubt in my mind a CAC sticker makes a coin like that much more liquid and more apt to pull down a good strong bid come sell time. I’m all in on that notion.
Other passions include golf, Moto Guzzi motorcycles, and Euro motorcycles in general.
Chris0 -
@GuzziSport said:
@BillJones thats a gorgeous C-1 and I agree with you, a sticker doesn’t “tell me which coin to buy” and my C3-a is a great example, it’s one of my favorite little half sisters and hasn’t stickered. That said, I appreciate the sticker at resale time…. No doubt in my mind a CAC sticker makes a coin like that much more liquid and more apt to pull down a good strong bid come sell time. I’m all in on that notion.Funny, how when get ready to bid on auction lots without a sticker, the price still goes to the moon.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?0 -
Nice coins! I got here too late to play…
Smitten with DBLCs.
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Mine's aren't near as nice... Here's the piece in my album. I still tried to get as decent a surface as I could find for the 1809 for the grade... color isn't too bad
and here's the Liberty Cap Half Cent from my Box of 20... it has a scratch on the obverse but still decent surfaces and color given the grade...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.3 -
I like coin two better despite the slightly lower grade.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
1 -
@lkenefic said:
Mine's aren't near as nice... Here's the piece in my album. I still tried to get as decent a surface as I could find for the 1809 for the grade... color isn't too badDecent indeed, @lkenefic !
Any 1809 that isn’t black, corroded, damaged, or has green verdigris is a good find. And there aren’t many.
It’s interesting that in lower grades it’s valued much cheaper than a comparable graded 09SVDB cent, despite thousands of examples available. But there are many other instances where this is also true. Popularity is tough to beat!Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug0 -
@Walkerguy21D said:
@lkenefic said:
Mine's aren't near as nice... Here's the piece in my album. I still tried to get as decent a surface as I could find for the 1809 for the grade... color isn't too badDecent indeed, @lkenefic !
Any 1809 that isn’t black, corroded, damaged, or has green verdigris is a good find. And there aren’t many.
It’s interesting that in lower grades it’s valued much cheaper than a comparable graded 09SVDB cent, despite thousands of examples available. But there are many other instances where this is also true. Popularity is tough to beat!Thanks! I had to look at my spreadsheet to see how much I paid... ouch... but yeah, this was actually an ebay auction and I recall there being "3 or 4" bidders sniping at the end. Even with the heavy scratch at Ms. Liberty's throat, there were enough of us that realized how rare clean(er) surfaces are on this issue. Surfaces were the "line in the sand" for my Classic Heads... the only one I have that's obviously corroded is the 1811/0. I have a couple that were cracked from straight-graded ANACS slabs...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.0
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