Just how does one ‘find’ the top wheat cent in existence in the wheat series?
This cent is currently up for auction. Out of billions of cents made, how does one just find the best one in existence? I mean, seriously, how does this happen….and to the same collectors no less…….? 🤔
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1745189/
Comments
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If I recall correctly, Stewart Blay, who was an incredibly knowledgeable, particular and persistent collector, “found” that coin in a superb roll of 1919 cents and submitted at least some of the coins to PCGS.
Someone, please correct me if I’m wrong and/or fill an any additional information.
Edited to add: Here are two old posts from Mr. Blay and a link to the pertinent thread https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/112417/has-anybody-seen-that-1919-p-ms69-lincoln-or-know-who-owns-it
STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭ July 29, 2002 4:44PM
“Master HankyYes, I do own the coin. Yes, I have recently seen it. As a matter of fact,I plan on seeing it tomorrow.
When I submitted the first ten coins ( all 1919 cents ) eight came back ms 67 and two came back ms 68. PCGS had never previously graded a wheat cent ms 68. When I submitted the next ten pieces, eight graded ms 68 and two pieces graded ms 67. I then submitted five ms 68's for review. One was clearly better. I earned the ms 69 grade.The coin glows in the light, has full mint bloom and frost like no other cent .
Stewart”
“ STEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭ July 30, 2002 4:05PM
SOG - I made all but one of the 1919 ms 68 red Lincoln cents.Yes, I made 13 of the 14.The other one was made by Heritage and as far as I was concerned,it was a mistake. Of the seventy coins I bought, at the time was a record price, 13 graded ms 68, about 35 graded ms 67,1 graded ms69 and the rest graded ms 65 and ms 66.Rella - Andy and I split a roll deal from 1934-1958. We paid stupid money for it because of the roll of 1954 P. Andy bought me out and then went partners with someone else. Then Andy had to buy out the other follow.This weekend he got the first two 1954 P's to go 67. I bought one of them.Alot of money,time and work is the reason these
P mints are so... expensive
Stewart”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Man, as soon as I saw this thread I thought ... I think there's already a consensus. Stewart's old 1919 in P69RD
I guess that's still the case, at least in some peoples minds.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #2424 -
One of, if not the best Lincoln Cents I've ever seen.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon2 -
"Patience" is a word that goes with the above postings
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@MFeld said:
If I recall correctly, Stewart Blay, who was an incredibly knowledgeable, particular and persistent collector, “found” that coin in a superb roll of 1919 cents and submitted at least some of the coins to PCGS.…….
Hi Mark….as someone who has graded so many top coins do you think there is/was more MS69’s? What would be the reason that only one would exist and would there be any for other dates this good, or is this just due to the grader’s interpretation at the time? Thanks for the informative post! Cheers, karl
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@safari_dude said:
@MFeld said:
If I recall correctly, Stewart Blay, who was an incredibly knowledgeable, particular and persistent collector, “found” that coin in a superb roll of 1919 cents and submitted at least some of the coins to PCGS.…….
Hi Mark….as someone who has graded so many top coins do you think there is/was more MS69’s? What would be the reason that only one would exist and would there be any for other dates this good, or is this just due to the grader’s interpretation at the time? Thanks for the informative post! Cheers, karl
Karl, based on the huge number of uncirculated Lincoln cents in existence, it’s hard for me to imagine that others couldn’t grade MS69RD. But it would require that the right coins be submitted and that they receive accurate grades.
It’s also important to remember that Mr. Blay stated that the subject coin graded MS68RD the first time around. So maybe there’s one or more other 68’s that upon resubmission, could grade MS69. That said, please don't my comments as a recommendation that everyone should resubmit all their MS68RD Lincoln cents. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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In the past I have used this strategy (not with MS68RD Wheat cents!) at PCGS and it has worked. I've taken multiple strong coins of the same date and grade and bundled them together with what I thought was clearly a coin that was at least one grade higher than the others, but that had received the same grade. I've placed the best coin at or near the end of three or four pieces and those limited times I have done this the best coin has received the grade bump to the next grade.
Please note that although these have been high grade and super tough coins to make they are not in the same league, value wise or absolute grade, as the MS69RD 1919 Wheat cent from Stewart. Also, keep in mind that these pieces might have upgraded without the strategy, though in at least one case I attempted an upgrade previously and the coin graded the same. The coins I have experience with in this scenario are twentieth century silver with terrific toning and in super gem grades.
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@safari_dude said:
This cent is currently up for auction. Out of billions of cents made, how does one just find the best one in existence? I mean, seriously, how does this happen….and to the same collectors no less…….? 🤔
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1745189/Must be those tiny flecks of something that keep this one from being called MS 70...
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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…….sometime ago someone posted on this forum the (insane) thought the Blay 69 was a counterfeit. I still laugh at that…. 2 -
Stewart was a pretty amazing character. Besides the 1919 roll story, he aggressively pursued the 1958 DDO and was very aggressive in buying the 1877 "Indian Princess", prices paid that seemed crazy at the time but cheap in retrospect.
Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.3 -
I am pretty sure that the roll of 1919 Lincolns that produced the ms69 example came from a Stacks auction circa 1990. In addition, complete BU rolls of several other early dates were available including a 1910 BU roll.
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I have never seen this coin in person, but have seen various photos through the years. It appears to me to be almost other-worldly in terms of quality for any pre-1920s wheat cent.
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
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Wowsers! OGH. MS69RD and a CAC!
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
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Great question! Blay had a great eye for quality. Having generous supply of financial resources also helps one seek out and find the best coins.
The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…
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Three weeks left in this auction (has it really been open for bidding since March?).
Will it close higher or lower than the $422k close (w/fees) in 2023?
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@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Three weeks left in this auction (has it really been open for bidding since March?).Will it close higher or lower than the $422k close (w/fees) in 2023?
I think it will hammer for a bit less, the froth over the Blay collection elevated all the selling prices for the coins in his collection.
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how does one just find the best one in existence? I mean, seriously, how does this happen….and to the same collectors no less…
You work with a dealer like Andy Skarbalak who knows what a premium Lincoln should look like if you can afford to buy it.
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.2 -
@coinbuf said:
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Three weeks left in this auction (has it really been open for bidding since March?).Will it close higher or lower than the $422k close (w/fees) in 2023?
I think it will hammer for a bit less, the froth over the Blay collection elevated all the selling prices for the coins in his collection.
Just sold for a touch under $300k. Pretty big haircut from 2023.
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@P0CKETCHANGE said:
@coinbuf said:
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Three weeks left in this auction (has it really been open for bidding since March?).Will it close higher or lower than the $422k close (w/fees) in 2023?
I think it will hammer for a bit less, the froth over the Blay collection elevated all the selling prices for the coins in his collection.
Just sold for a touch under $300k. Pretty big haircut from 2023.
Ouch! That really underperformed, I thought 375K maybe 350K but did not expect that low.
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That coin will be bought and sold hundreds of times during ITS life. It will be here on August 31, 2317. None of us will, but that coin will.
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@World67 said:
What happens to the value of this coin if it develops a carbon spot or two? No slab is completely air-tight.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire3 -
@PerryHall said:
What happens to the value of this coin if it develops a carbon spot or two? No slab is completely air-tight.
The value would drop; how much would depend on other factors. When I compare this GC photo to earlier photos I've saved of this coin the rev appears to have mellowed just a bit. Of course that is just comparing photos so it may just be the differences in the lighting/photography. Copper changes, and the more this coin gets passed around the better the chance for a negative change.
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@PerryHall said:
@World67 said:
What happens to the value of this coin if it develops a carbon spot or two? No slab is completely air-tight.
It looks like it already had, though granted, they are tiny.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@MFeld said:
……It looks like it already had, though granted, they are tiny.
Mark…is there any way to 100% protect it? Would be a shame to see this amazing coin lose its luster!
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@safari_dude said:
@MFeld said:
……It looks like it already had, though granted, they are tiny.
Mark…is there any way to 100% protect it? Would be a shame to see this amazing coin lose its luster!
I’m not aware of a way to protect a coin to that extent.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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Maybe it's already lost it's luster. Someone's records need to be updated. 🤣
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That is such a beautiful coin in the photos, I cant imagine how nice it is in person
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@MFeld said:
@safari_dude said:
@MFeld said:
……It looks like it already had, though granted, they are tiny.
Mark…is there any way to 100% protect it? Would be a shame to see this amazing coin lose its luster!
I’m not aware of a way to protect a coin to that extent.
I’d say that inventor/scientist who packaged up his red copper that lasted several centuries might disagree
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@tradedollarnut said:
@MFeld said:
@safari_dude said:
@MFeld said:
……It looks like it already had, though granted, they are tiny.
Mark…is there any way to 100% protect it? Would be a shame to see this amazing coin lose its luster!
I’m not aware of a way to protect a coin to that extent.
I’d say that inventor/scientist who packaged up his red copper that lasted several centuries might disagree
He might disagree that “I’m not aware of a way to protect a coin to that extent”? 😉
Was he able to view his red copper after he packaged it up?Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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He was not but his technique would be sound and viewable with today’s technology. Encase this slab in a clear vacuum container along with a sacrificial anode and nothing will get through to that coin.
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@tradedollarnut said:
He was not but his technique would be sound and viewable with today’s technology. Encase this slab in a clear vacuum container along with a sacrificial anode and nothing will get through to that coin.Do you think there are a lot of collectors of valuable copper coins who would be interested in that? And how practical would it be?
Those aren’t rhetorical questions, as I don’t know nearly enough to have an opinion about it.Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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@safari_dude said:
This cent is currently up for auction. Out of billions of cents made, how does one just find the best one in existence? I mean, seriously, how does this happen….and to the same collectors no less…….? 🤔
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1745189/Designate of "the best in existence" is an award, can never be a find.
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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