I posted this coin when I first got it but I just now got it back from grading after leaving it in my tray for a while.
I believe this type is notable for being the first ever coin minted with the word "Guatemala" on it. According to Brian Stickney in A Monetary History of Central America it was minted from silver donated by the Catholic church at a fineness of .750 when all other circulating silver was to the colonial era standard.
A heritage auction listing for a different example states there are fewer than 30 confirmed surviving examples. Even if the real number is higher than that, I am glad to have my example.
These coins are fascinating, the CAR had serious political problems when this coin was minted. I think the 1829 Guatemala real and the El Salvador coinage from the 1830s are some of the most interesting coins ever minted. At least to me.
These coins are fascinating, the CAR had serious political problems when this coin was minted. I think the 1829 Guatemala real and the El Salvador coinage from the 1830s are some of the most interesting coins ever minted. At least to me.
Do you have any readings you would recommend to learn more about the Guatemala coins? I rely pretty heavily on the Stickney book. If it's only in Spanish I could probably give it a try. I have learned about the El Salvador coinage from Jovel & Yonaka's book, but I've been outbid the 3 or 4 times I tried to get a coin for myself.
These coins are fascinating, the CAR had serious political problems when this coin was minted. I think the 1829 Guatemala real and the El Salvador coinage from the 1830s are some of the most interesting coins ever minted. At least to me.
Do you have any readings you would recommend to learn more about the Guatemala coins? I rely pretty heavily on the Stickney book. If it's only in Spanish I could probably give it a try. I have learned about the El Salvador coinage from Jovel & Yonaka's book, but I've been outbid the 3 or 4 times I tried to get a coin for myself.
For the 1829 specifically this is the book:
Mr Jovel has an extraordinary group of books on CAR and early Central American coins, as well as the Iturbide series minted in Central America. Some of his books are easily available. Others not so much. The one on El Salvador I had to call a library in San Salvador to buy it and have it shipped to me... worth every penny as far as I am concerned.
I can add one more coin from my most recent submission. Came back details for the scratch but hard to complain since, well, it's scratched. The significance of this coin is the date of 1832, which in my experience has been much harder to find than 1831.
I think it's interesting to compare the positioning of the legend in this coin to the 1831 example directly above. It's rotated by about three letters if you look at where the volcano touches REPUBLICA. Meanwhile the reverse die appears to be the same, though on close inspection it might not be.
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
@Abuelo said:
Mr Jovel has an extraordinary group of books on CAR and early Central American coins, as well as the Iturbide series minted in Central America. Some of his books are easily available. Others not so much. The one on El Salvador I had to call a library in San Salvador to buy it and have it shipped to me... worth every penny as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for the tips.
I wasn't able to find the book covering Guatemala for sale immediately. However in my searching I found the El Salvador volume so based on what you said, I bought it right away. Just reading the table of contents I'm excited.
And for fun, I brought all my Central American specific books onto one shelf next to my desk.
@Boosibri said:
First time buying a coin at auction and seeing myself quoted on the flip attached.
That’s pretty cool.
Im looking forward to seeing what the Boosi pedigreed holders will look like!
Something like this....
Great coin!
If I ever do sell my collection, many years from now, I will sell them in the holders that they are in I think. Gives a better impression of being fresh, and I doubt the provenance will matter much to folks.
I bought one Eternal coin and I can't wait to liberate it from its holder.
@Boosibri said:
First time buying a coin at auction and seeing myself quoted on the flip attached.
That’s pretty cool.
Im looking forward to seeing what the Boosi pedigreed holders will look like!
Something like this....
Great coin!
If I ever do sell my collection, many years from now, I will sell them in the holders that they are in I think. Gives a better impression of being fresh, and I doubt the provenance will matter much to folks.
I bought one Eternal coin and I can't wait to liberate it from its holder.
I love the humility but I think your doubts are incorrect. Definitely hear you about the Eternal holders. Lots of provenance holders come off a bit cheesy to me.
If I wasn’t a very proud Virginia Cavalier who’s been traumatized multiple times in March by Izzo and the Spartans I would actually love Johnnys logo concept fwiw.
@Boosibri said:
First time buying a coin at auction and seeing myself quoted on the flip attached.
Um - where is the coin?
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
@realeswatcher said:
It's Thursday, here are some coins laying about
Dude....
Edit: to say something slightly more helpful, that is just an absurdly diverse, rare, and high quality display of Latin American coinage. Thanks for sharing!
@realeswatcher said:
It's Thursday, here are some coins laying about
Dude....
Edit: to say something slightly more helpful, that is just an absurdly diverse, rare, and high quality display of Latin American coinage. Thanks for sharing!
Coin from the Richard August Collection:
Plenty in the auction I had to pass on, but this one is special as it is unlisted in Yonaka, Gilboy, and Craig and Ponterio (reference below) in their US Mex article on varieties of Philip V 8 Reales. Coins shows "PHILIP Ɐ" variant, with an inverted A punch taking the place of the V:
Craig and Ponterio caught two additional varieties of Ɐ punches used in the 1737 8 Reales, but did not discuss this variety.
Reference: Craig, Freeman, and Kent Ponterio. March 2015. CHECKLIST OF SPANISH COLONIAL MILLED 8 REALES OF MEXICO PART 1 OF 5 – PHILIP V. US Mex Journal, Mar 2015, p. 12-15.
Here’s a fun piece from Guatemala, 8R, 1771. All the Guatemala pillars are kinda messy, the minting was very crude, but the last years are even morso. The flans were cut down due to silver inflation, but they decided not to change the die sizes, so here we are, elements falling off the edges 😂
Also, many crude elements, the assayer initial is HUGE and probably hand carved. I love it, a great little piece of history. Being the final year of production is icing on the cake.
Most people won’t know what’s special about that coin.
The 1883 Flat top 3 was struck reportedly in 1925, but more likely in 1929, as compensation to Peru for the annexation of the city of Arica after the War of the Pacific which started in 1879. In 1883 the Peace Treaty of Ancon was developed, but wasn’t signed until 1929, making 1929 the most logical date for these to have been struck. The common date of 1925-1926 is often cited but I can find no reason to suggest this date.
New dies were created with the flat top 3 vs the original rounded 3 to signify the new retro-issue. These are struck in medal alignment. Reportedly 6 million were made, though few remain today and most that do are in MS grades.
Hail the gift of memory in this fifty-second state. Who sold me down the river and shafts me while he waits. Outside the gates of Eden, star spangled and so late.
1638 Potosi (Bolivia) 8 Reales Galano, aka a "Royal" aka a "Redondo". A rare find for one of these - NOT holed. Last digit 8 confirmed from a Lazaro die match for 1638.
@pruebas said:
Bringing this thread back to the north......
It's pretty rare these days that I can find something new for my main Mexican pattern collection. Due to a recent sale of another 1979 20 Pesos pattern at auction, this particular coin came out of the woodwork and thence to me.
There were many patterns made during this era due to currency devaluation and the resultant coinage changes, but they all are quite rare. This is the first 20P pattern that I know of that was made in the metal of eventual issue--copper-nickel--and with the intended edge design--incuse INDEPENDENCIA Y LIBERTAD, which is why it was purportedly found in a bag of regular issue coins.
It is similar to Krause KM-Pn217, but with a slightly different design. The issued coin was released in 1980 with a yet different design than this pattern.
It will go to PCGS later this year, and I will post a TrueView when obtained. But here is the raw photo and a corresponding trial already in my collection with this design.
My NEWP (still raw):
The existing trial in my collection:
This fortuitously popped yesterday (a Thursday), but I was too busy to post it here.
After almost 2 years, this piece I bought raw in Mexico City is finally slabbed (and still unique). PCGS SP66.
Interestingly, I met the discoverer in Monterrey during the show there last June. He was so happy it joined my collection.
Comments
I posted this coin when I first got it but I just now got it back from grading after leaving it in my tray for a while.
I believe this type is notable for being the first ever coin minted with the word "Guatemala" on it. According to Brian Stickney in A Monetary History of Central America it was minted from silver donated by the Catholic church at a fineness of .750 when all other circulating silver was to the colonial era standard.
A heritage auction listing for a different example states there are fewer than 30 confirmed surviving examples. Even if the real number is higher than that, I am glad to have my example.
@Euclid yes, it was "donated"...
These coins are fascinating, the CAR had serious political problems when this coin was minted. I think the 1829 Guatemala real and the El Salvador coinage from the 1830s are some of the most interesting coins ever minted. At least to me.
Picked this one up recently, just popped on PCGS, AU55. Very pleased.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
8 r Northern Peru
Sic semper tyrannis.
Do you have any readings you would recommend to learn more about the Guatemala coins? I rely pretty heavily on the Stickney book. If it's only in Spanish I could probably give it a try. I have learned about the El Salvador coinage from Jovel & Yonaka's book, but I've been outbid the 3 or 4 times I tried to get a coin for myself.
For the 1829 specifically this is the book:
Mr Jovel has an extraordinary group of books on CAR and early Central American coins, as well as the Iturbide series minted in Central America. Some of his books are easily available. Others not so much. The one on El Salvador I had to call a library in San Salvador to buy it and have it shipped to me... worth every penny as far as I am concerned.
1944 2 1/2 struck for Curaçao at the Denver Mint. I picked this coin up for $25 at the start of September
VF 30
I can add one more coin from my most recent submission. Came back details for the scratch but hard to complain since, well, it's scratched. The significance of this coin is the date of 1832, which in my experience has been much harder to find than 1831.
I think it's interesting to compare the positioning of the legend in this coin to the 1831 example directly above. It's rotated by about three letters if you look at where the volcano touches REPUBLICA. Meanwhile the reverse die appears to be the same, though on close inspection it might not be.
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/food_for_all_1972/1000_peso_1969_Uraguay_o.2.jpg
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/food_for_all_1972/1000_peso_1969_Uraguay_r.png
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/uragay_1969_fao.html
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/images/uraguay_web/images/032-rupublic.png
My second 8 r 1813, another stamp.
Sic semper tyrannis.
Thanks for the tips.
I wasn't able to find the book covering Guatemala for sale immediately. However in my searching I found the El Salvador volume so based on what you said, I bought it right away. Just reading the table of contents I'm excited.
And for fun, I brought all my Central American specific books onto one shelf next to my desk.
Well done @Euclid
First time buying a coin at auction and seeing myself quoted on the flip attached.
Latin American Collection
Impressive @Boosibri
That’s pretty cool.
Im looking forward to seeing what the Boosi pedigreed holders will look like!
Something like this....
Great coin!
If I ever do sell my collection, many years from now, I will sell them in the holders that they are in I think. Gives a better impression of being fresh, and I doubt the provenance will matter much to folks.
I bought one Eternal coin and I can't wait to liberate it from its holder.
Latin American Collection
I love the humility but I think your doubts are incorrect. Definitely hear you about the Eternal holders. Lots of provenance holders come off a bit cheesy to me.
If I wasn’t a very proud Virginia Cavalier who’s been traumatized multiple times in March by Izzo and the Spartans I would actually love Johnnys logo concept fwiw.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
@SimonW great coins!
Thanks Abuelo!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Forgot to post this one one Thursday...so here's a Saturday Special
Here is my first post to this thread. Picked this up recently and very happy once it arrived.
Successful buys/sales on BST board from NotSure, Nankraut, Yorkshireman, Astrorat, Ikeigwin(2x), Bob13, Outhaul, coinbuf, dpvilla, jayPem, Sean1990, TwoKopeiki, bidask, Downtown1974, drddm, nederveit2, ajann
Um - where is the coin?
It's Thursday, here are some coins laying about
Dude....
Edit: to say something slightly more helpful, that is just an absurdly diverse, rare, and high quality display of Latin American coinage. Thanks for sharing!
I assume that the 1759 Pillar is an NR
Latin American Collection
I spy an 1839 Arequipa 8R
Latin American Collection
Coin from the Richard August Collection:
Plenty in the auction I had to pass on, but this one is special as it is unlisted in Yonaka, Gilboy, and Craig and Ponterio (reference below) in their US Mex article on varieties of Philip V 8 Reales. Coins shows "PHILIP Ɐ" variant, with an inverted A punch taking the place of the V:
Craig and Ponterio caught two additional varieties of Ɐ punches used in the 1737 8 Reales, but did not discuss this variety.
Reference: Craig, Freeman, and Kent Ponterio. March 2015. CHECKLIST OF SPANISH COLONIAL MILLED 8 REALES OF MEXICO PART 1 OF 5 – PHILIP V. US Mex Journal, Mar 2015, p. 12-15.
Awesome coin and great information @Plus00Vltra
1877 8 Reales MS64
1827 2 Reales MS62
1830 1 Real MS64
@Rampage nice trio!
Technically it’s Thursday 😂
Here’s a fun piece from Guatemala, 8R, 1771. All the Guatemala pillars are kinda messy, the minting was very crude, but the last years are even morso. The flans were cut down due to silver inflation, but they decided not to change the die sizes, so here we are, elements falling off the edges 😂
Also, many crude elements, the assayer initial is HUGE and probably hand carved. I love it, a great little piece of history. Being the final year of production is icing on the cake.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
The 1732-Mo pillar planchets are too small as well. It was fixed by 1733 at Mexico.
Guatemala pillars are so cool!
Very cool indeed!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Latin American Collection
VF 25
XF 40
XF 45
AU 58
Jamaica in the house:
Fabulous luster in hand.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Most people won’t know what’s special about that coin.
The 1883 Flat top 3 was struck reportedly in 1925, but more likely in 1929, as compensation to Peru for the annexation of the city of Arica after the War of the Pacific which started in 1879. In 1883 the Peace Treaty of Ancon was developed, but wasn’t signed until 1929, making 1929 the most logical date for these to have been struck. The common date of 1925-1926 is often cited but I can find no reason to suggest this date.
New dies were created with the flat top 3 vs the original rounded 3 to signify the new retro-issue. These are struck in medal alignment. Reportedly 6 million were made, though few remain today and most that do are in MS grades.
I’ve been looking for one myself. Very difficult.
Latin American Collection
Hail the gift of memory in this fifty-second state. Who sold me down the river and shafts me while he waits. Outside the gates of Eden, star spangled and so late.
Silver 1908/7 Peruvian 1/2 Dinero.
Overdate, double struck and struck-thru.
BST📋✅️: mainejoe
1638 Potosi (Bolivia) 8 Reales Galano, aka a "Royal" aka a "Redondo". A rare find for one of these - NOT holed. Last digit 8 confirmed from a Lazaro die match for 1638.
This fortuitously popped yesterday (a Thursday), but I was too busy to post it here.
After almost 2 years, this piece I bought raw in Mexico City is finally slabbed (and still unique). PCGS SP66.
Interestingly, I met the discoverer in Monterrey during the show there last June. He was so happy it joined my collection.
Astounding!