Neat Draped Bust 1795 $1 at Pawn Shop
Proofmorgan
Posts: 922 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry for the poor pics. I found this 1795 $1 at a local pawn shop. It definitely looks genuine. It’s the off center variety. I’d grade it 50-55 but it has an obverse scratch on the bust that will make it go details. What’s it worth and is it worth toying with?
Asking $5500, I bet they’d go 4500-5000.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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Humbly, I don't believe it to be genuine.
maybe a shanghai copy-dollar?
I have no idea what it’s worth but I’d be very reluctant to buy a raw coin at a pawn shop for $5k and I’m not the risk averse type.
Of all the fake 1795 dollars, this one is the most fake.
Doesn’t look genuine. Has that not right look to it and no way would it be prudent to purchase an unauthentic, ungraded $5500. fake coin from a pawn shop.
I appreciate all the insight. The only reason I even considered it was I bought several underpriced/undergraded coins from this source already that panned out.
Any key indicators to look for in a fake? I could inspect it
Closer next time I’m there.
Here is a PCGS certified VF-35 example. There have been counterfeit examples of the Off-Center bust variety around for many years, including some that are dated 1796! The variety was only struck in 1795.
The dollar looks off to me. I hope the “underpriced/undergraded” coins you bought are genuine.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Definitely some differences on the reverse. Thank you!
The other coins (CBHs) did grade out fine.
I wouldn’t have bought it without a buyback if counterfeit, but this thread has saved me the hassle.
Definitely a counterfeit. Color, surfaces, and denticles are off.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Bad fake.
Back in late 2007 a customer came into the coin shop I was working at with a 1795 Draped Bust dollar with the mis-placed bust that he had just bought from a dealer in China. It was in a major TPG slab, but I still did not like the coin. However, I was reluctant to flat out condemn it without a duplicate specimen to find matching contact marks on. I suggested that he return it for a refund.
Instead, he came back in couple of weeks with that coin and a 1796 and a 1797 from the same seller in China. All had the same reverse die, with repeating contact marks that could prove all of them counterfeit.
The most interesting thing was that all three obverse dies were descended from the same genuine 1795 misplaced bust coin, again with repeating contact marks copied from the genuine host coin. The most interesting things were the dates. On the 1796 die they had copied the 9 from the 1795 coin and inserted it, upside down, as a 6 where the 5 had been. On the 1797 they just copied the 7 from the 1795 coin and inserted it where the 5 had been.
All of the slabs were counterfeit, of course. I passed this information on to the TPG in question. I then lost track of the story when I broke my leg and spent two months in recovery.
All of the above being said, I refuse to make any comment upon the OP coin because of the quality of the pictures. Draw your own conclusions.
TD
Does that have a CAC sticker?Looks pretty nice!
All you have to do is look at the date to tell that it is counterfeit.
Definite fake.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Nice coin @BillJones!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Well.... you asked:
If this was even remotely tempting, I'd take a big, big step back and re-evaluate your buying strategies. You say "it definitely looks genuine" but you're not sure what variety it is. I didn't even need to look at the photos to know that paying that much for this coin at a pawn shop was almost guaranteed to be a bad idea. If you are an expert in the series, and absolutely know (or have a 90% level of certainty) that the coin is genuine, sure, go for it.
Sure, truly rare coins can sometimes show up in unusual places, but most dealers or pawn shops with even a little knowledge will have them professionally authenticated prior to offering them for sale. Doing anything else is leaving money on the table. Why would they do that?
I'll go ahead and answer......
Because they strongly suspect that it isn't genuine. There's no way they paid 4 figures for it. If they did, they won't be in business very long. There are maybe a few dozen of these that exist in AU condition or better in the whole world. The vast majority of those are slabbed and in collections. The odds are immensely stacked against you here.
Sure, maybe he has a buyback guarantee. Maybe he will even honor it. Or, maybe he goes out of business while you're getting it checked out, or suddenly forgets that he sold it to you, or accuses you of swapping a fake for the genuine one he sold you, or....... You are assuming all of the risk here.
No CAC sticker. If I like it, I buy it if the price is okay, sticker or no sticker.
I bought that Bust Dollar from a dealer who often sends coins to CAC. He used indicate on his stickers if they had failed (e.g. “has been to CAC” but there was no sticker.) This one had no markings about that.
1, 7 and 5 appear off to me. Not genuine. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
For $5.50, if it’s real silver it’s a bargain … 😉
This is a strong AU 55 3 leaf variety that would be worth $50K if it was real, which it isn't.
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"Sou Mangueira......."