What (if anything) should I do with this coin?
Copperindian
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I’m considering bringing out any value to consider a future sale.





Not an easy call for me, so other’s opinions are appreciated!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Early Walkers
What (if anything) should I do with this coin?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Comments
I would enjoy owning it knowing that with it PQ toning, OGH and gold bean would drive a nice bonus sale price if needed. Beautiful coin.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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I'd leave it in the OGH with a gold bean. These older holders are getting collectible of themselves...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
You’d be foolish to mess with it, given the gold sticker + OGH and (importantly) the stability of color.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
This.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
With copper the older the holder the better alluding to stability of the color which is paramount on a keydate all there example with a RD or RB designation. Collectors want it just as it is currently.
That said I think it brings more money better chance to maximize upside to you as a CACG 66RB and part of the reason many collectors prefer it as-is is the hope of the discount even if it doesn't always shakeout that way in completive bidding
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
To me, it’s a no-brainer to leave it, as is.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Crypto: good comments!
Not to influence any votes, but here’s a few facts for the 1877 IHC:
1) there are no grades above 66 in RB @ PCGS or CACG;
2) CAC has accorded 2 green beans @ 64RB; none for 65RB. So only this gold CAC is in their system at this grade level.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Early Walkers
You already have everything you could possibly want with this coin - why bother. Leave it as is.
WS
Honest question, Is your perspective as a personal coin lover who would want it as-is or a dealer/auction house Vet who thinks it will return more as-is than in a 66RB CACG holder
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
The color/surface preservation advantage of the old holder aside, a gold-stickered PCGS 65 example is almost certain to be valued higher than a PCGS or CACG 66 (and likely as much as, if not more than a 66+).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would say maximize return.
However, it would have to be a significant bump over a gold bean.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Primarily, because people pay stupid money for OGH/Gold CAC combos.
To a lesser extent to preserve the old slab and because the coin is stable.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Sorry, I was replying to your previous post at the same time you were posting the above question.
My perspective is as both a personal coin lover and a dealer/auction house representative wanting to maximize value for a seller.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the choice was there I would vote to leave as is because the Gold Bean and OGH are a big plus. It has nothing to do with TPG grading being more strict so can't pick that one.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I respect your opinion immensely but in a rare bit I disagree due to the coin being near the top of the census, value of the overgrade and the actual merits of the color designation. Yah there isn't a whole lot of 66RB (can't find a +) auction results which trend at double a 65RB on avg which is also a rare grade. The coin from those photos appear closer to Brown than Red on the spectrum of RB and it is a fickle market. Getting double the grade price requires a couple of determined bidders at which point most dealers drop out limiting the buyer pool. Where I would guess a 66RB CACG has a much higher floor at auction.
If it was me I would try and consign to Eagle Eye as is at 30k and if it doesn't move in 90 days go for the upgrade.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Thank you and I respect your opinion equally. All we can do is guess and say what we’d do if the decision were ours.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This! If a copper coin is going to turn, it would have done so by now...
I think the only place I might send this coin would be to Rick Snow to get an Eagle Eye designation too... other than that, this coin would live... as is... in my collection, and I'd look at it every d@nm day!!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I would make sure to carefully remove that sticker if it has not already been taken off. It will destroy the hologram. I have seen plenty of these recently.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
This is the only unc with gold CAC 1877 in any color. There are not any golds in 58 either.
Ken, I think you answered your own question. An OGH, 65RB, the ONLY GOLD CAC, IMO, nothing trumps this! A 66 upgrade with a green bean doesn’t hold the same appeal to me as what you have now. I would not upgrade or anything to remove from current holder. In fact if you’re thinking of selling I would be interested in purchasing your King of the hill coin. She’s a beauty! Zack.
Fair I can't rule out the OGH Gold combo brings more but CACG coins are fairly strong currently, I value the 65RB at 14-21k With Upside of a bidding war and a 66RB at 16-22k with limited upside of a bidding war but with upside for a (+) during grading where the sky is the limit with the right buyer. It should be noted I don't see the coin as a 66+ RB
I viewed the question as purely transactional with maximizing the outcome while limiting the risk. Which is why consigning to Eagle eye might be a wise play to guarantee a price point
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
You could also talk to John over at CRO. He is a leader in Gold CAC, Old Holder, high end coins.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Great feedback - thanks to all! Clarifying - I’m not ready to sell, but preparing for a best (or better) case scenario when I do.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Early Walkers
From my experience purchasing IHCs, that coin in my opinion falls correctly into the RB spectrum. It looks to be in the 25-35% reddish color range with PCGS using 20% (?) red as their base. I understand that without having the coin in hand making a 100% positive call is guess work at best, but it has enough red to be correctly attributed as such.
Leave it as is at least until you decide to sell. Who knows, perhaps grading standards or even grading companies will have changed by then. Don't waste money chasing new grades when you already have a very nice graded coin in your possession.
I would be shocked if this was anything other than a "thought experiment" that you decided to bring to the boards.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Might as well peel that ugly one off on the front too while you're at it.
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I think we agree off of what you're saying also considering that not all oranges and tans count as red indicators either. I agree with the RB just there are 90% Red RBs out there and there are 25% so it matters. To get a TOP Pop at CACG in this case a 66+ it most likely needs to be a slam dunk and faces like a 67 with Luster eye appeal to support. Based off the pics I am not convinced it gets there but could be surprised. A 90% red RB gets eye appeal points compared to a lower end of the spectrum. Also as a thought exercise I do for measuring upside, what would we grade it if it was a 1882
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Why I don't buy crypto jk
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Nice coin. Leave it alone.
Gold beans often sell for more than the next grade up, and in many cases, two grades up.
It’s a unicorn with a lot of cachet. I assume you paid a premium to own it due to these factors. If you wish to recoup that premium, then best to leave alone.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
I dont blame you, Im getting killed out here. But to be fair neither do I, My crypto is from dating back to the 90s well before Tamagotchi money.
I get collectors (forum peeps) being attracted to that specific combo and the ole Gold beans bring next grade up prices thinking but I don't think that is always the case in near top pop keys which the huge spreads between the grades. If youre talking a 1851C gold piece in AU55 Gold, sure it can bring UNC money. But I think most people are responding with what they would want Vs want a transaction looks like at that level especially at auction where most "collectors" are not even players. All the while focusing on the holder and not the coin and where it plays against the next levels up. The market for copper pennies that cost what a basic new car does isn't the same dynamics.
My only question is "does CAC have to upgrade it". I think the only cross to 66+ is a fairly safe play as I simply disagree that a TOP pop Key date in a wildly CACG holder will bring less than the current holder. I would be interested in what a subject matter dealer or top pop dealer pro like @wondercoin @ThePennyLady @EagleEye thinks.
Maybe Im crazy
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Man, what a great coin and package. No way would I change anything about it.
I think you should sell it. To me.
Empty Nest Collection
So I guess you actually are serious with this question. Again, I had thought previously it was just a thought experiment. I have always advised folks to take the least invasive approach to the coins in their collection and this extends to coins in their slabs, as well.
You own the Unicorn. The only business strike 1877 IHC (regardless of color designation) to earn a gold CAC sticker and it is in a PCGS OGH graded as a full gem MS65. This is everything folks dream of and I imagine it was everything you dreamt of when you bid on the coin and purchased it. I also imagine that the half dozen folks who bid MS65+ money for the coin were heavily influenced by the combination of the OGC and gold CAC sticker. In the end, you paid MS66RB money for the coin.
My thoughts are that once this holder is gone then it is gone. It doesn't matter that the coin might be "the same" because collectors aren't always buying simply the coin. They are buying the package and the history and "the flex" that a coin like this carries with it. I find it hard to believe that you didn't appreciate the flex that this coin would carry when you placed your bid and that this appreciation might not have pushed your bid higher. I also wonder how likely it would be to get PCGS to grade this coin 66+ given they haven't given that grade out yet to any 1877 IHC in RB, and only apparently a single example each in BN and RD. That is a tough nut to crack.
Additionally, if you lose the OGH and lose the gold CAC sticker then this is just another example of a pretty, key date, expensive coin in a maxed out holder. How many potential buyers do you lose once that happens? At that point the coin and slab and sticker combination are already a scratched-off lottery ticket, winner or not. If you keep the package intact the way you purchased it then you will keep the flex and the value and the unused lottery ticket mentality.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@TomB: good comments, as usual. Agree with everything you said, except for this: “I find it hard to believe that you didn’t appreciate the flex that this coin would carry when you placed your bid and that this appreciation might not have pushed your bid higher”.
Of course I did. But…..one, nothing is forever. Two, with a coin like this, I get a lot of buzz, such as “you should do this”, or, “if I were you, I would do this”. And so on.
Bottom line, though, is I find your analysis valuable & appreciate them. Always do.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Early Walkers
I think that the coin is maxed out the way it is. It's a nice coin, but I would not have given it the gold sticker. It meets the grade assigned which rates a green sticker. I don't see the outstanding the eye appeal that would merrit an MS-66. I'd leave it as is.
This reminds me of the contestants on "Let's Make a Deal" who just won $4,000 worth of stuff and now get an offer from Wayne Brady to trade it in for the "black envelope" which is either a zonk or worth over $10,000. Nine times out of ten it's a zonk. Greed on that show usually leads to a bad end.
The future value was determined when it was first graded. The sticker was a nice touch. Anything beyond : an exercise in futility. That’s my opinion of the coin I see.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Without too much glazing and fawning, this disagreeableness is why you have such a brilliant and unique insight into the coin collecting hobby (and presumably other things as well).
The ability AND willingness to take a thoughtful, contrarian viewpoint is a rare and much sought after skill set.
I still don't agree with you in this particular instance but you made me think about the scenario from a completely different viewpoint.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
There are no 67’s in CACG or PCGS holders. Hence, the OGH/CAC gold combo provides wild speculative appeal that raises its value, taking that away by cracking into a 66 or 66+. Yep that all goes away…………………..
I get all your points and you stated kind of where I was going. But the facts are it has made it to 66RB money in a well publicized auction which is not always a given the 2’d time, are you saying a 66rb in a CACG holder would have a harder time making it to 66RB money?
And the OPs question was submit/cross with a min- of 66+ RB. I don’t think it would make it but would that not be a more likely home run and worth the 50$ lottery ticket ? A 66+ in a CGCG holder is still a unicorn
If he wants to maximize his returns he need to try and cash the lottery ticket. If it doesn’t make it he hasn’t lost anything (although I would put a big fat circle on on submission form around the plus). As a collector I would leave it as is but the core of the question is how to maximize return and to you point I think he has to play the lottery.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Happy New Year to all! The varied comments are appreciated, with a special shout-out to @Crypto for a “contrarian” point of view that was well thought out & analyzed! @TomB & @MFeld comments especially welcomed, as always!
I’ll leave the thread open for any late voting and/or commentary. Thanks to all!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Early Walkers
I would submit under reconsideration with a minimum grade of 66+ when you are ready to sell
I'm curious about something here, some folks are suggesting to send it to PCGS for reconsideration to go to 66+RB, but in the past PCGS did not give the option for reconsideration of a full grade plus for the service. In other words, you could submit for reconsideration and as for "at least full grade" or "at least + grade" or "at least added designation", but you couldn't request "at least full grade and at least + in the next grade up". So, the option that folks are writing about does not exist, as far as I know. Has this changed?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
‘Any of these options’ could be interpreted to mean a combination is allowed
The holder shows stability. Some will go crazy for the old holder and gold sticker combo. If selling it, price it at 66+ money or higher. Remember the gold sticker shows it is at least a solid 66 as per CAC’s opinion. The other alternative would be to see if it would CACG with a minimum grade of 67. I think it is unlikely, but crazier things have happened.
Late to the party. I would definitely leave the coin in the old holder with the gold bean. I own a Proof 1833 half cent that got a gold bean after I purchased the coin back in 2011. Wish I had kept it as purchased and not upgraded by one point.
This reminds me of the show ‘Deal or No Deal’…….and like in poker, the house wins quite a bit of the time. Every now and then a windfall happens, but not enough. The coin is beautiful, has a coveted Gold bean….and the risk is there of ruining a great combination to chase a gold ring that may not be there. But since I was in the aviation business for the last 35 years I’ll tell you this……a non-stop flight is pretty much a ‘problem free’ given, but if that same trip has three legs (to save money), every leg was another opportunity for something to go wrong. Stick with the non-stop (what you currently have) and skip the aggravation. 😉 Good luck! Cheers, karl
I absolutely understand what you are saying and agree with it. The coin could go from MS56RB to MS67RB under Reconsideration. However, what I am getting at, is that is appears PCGS will not allow you to stipulate that it has to go from MS65RB to at least MS66+RB before they will crack it out and put it in a new holder. So, if submitted for Reconsideration using the full point requirement, the coin may very likely come back as MS66RB. If so, what do you think would be more liquid and more valuable...an MS65RB OGH Gold CAC or a new MS66RB Green CAC?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson