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May I please get a details grade on this spiked chin 1804 half cent

WorldCoinsDmitryWorldCoinsDmitry Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
edited December 31, 2025 9:09AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Hi guys and happy new year!
So, my thing is 98% foreign coins so I’m a bit out of my element. The coin has been wiped (fine hairlines on bust side), which is why I’m asking for a details grade, but otherwise does not seem to have much actual wear? I appreciate all of you and your input <3




Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff <3

Comments

  • RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 672 ✭✭✭✭

    Commercial XF or EAC VF30, harshly cleaned. The EAC Grading Guide is available here:

    https://eacs.org/wp-content/uploads/grading-guide-book-eac-web-version.pdf

    Check out pages 33 to 35 for grading of circ coins.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 11,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF 35 details. I Iike it. 200+ yr old coins in details grade can be acceptable to many.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    XF details, cleaned and scratched, with the latter typically resulting in a larger value penalty than the former.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm seeing XF details, cleaned... but there are various levels of cleaning. It doesn't look like the cleaning moved any metal around (like a brillo pad) but whatever the compound used, it left an unnatural color for early copper.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 31,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    xt detail, cleaned. bummer a crosslet 4 with stems, ya hate to see it

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m curious as to why all but one of the comments have been about cleaning and not the very large scratch in the right obverse field?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I’m curious as to why all but one of the comments have been about cleaning and not the very large scratch in the right obverse field?

    Yikes, I was so hung up on the cleaning I didn’t even notice the large V-shaped scratch!

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I’m curious as to why all but one of the comments have been about cleaning and not the very large scratch in the right obverse field?

    I can only speak for myself, but I was drawn to the cleaning first and then relied on the last few images for details... now that I go back to that first image, the scratches are easily visible on the first image of the obverse... I missed it!

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The scratches were the first thing I saw. Too bad it is not just cleaned.

    Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
    $5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
    CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572

  • RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 672 ✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I’m curious as to why all but one of the comments have been about cleaning and not the very large scratch in the right obverse field?

    Because the harsh cleaning that stripped all of the natural color and surfaces just kills the coin for me. If it was natural brown with nice patina, the scratch would be the dominant detractor and knock it from VF35 to a F12 to maybe VF20 depending on how well the color covered the scratch.

    Here's a PCGS XF Dets Scratched piece. More like gouged, but the damage doesn't bother me as much because of the color.

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/half-cents/1804-1-2-c-spiked-chin-c-8-b-7-r1-scratch-pcgs-genuine-xf-details-pcgs-35167-/a/60445-50137.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

    And here's one with obv scratches but decent color:

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/half-cents/1804-1-2-c-spiked-chin-c-6-b-6-r2-obverse-scratched-ngc-details-xf-pcgs-35161-/a/132122-21010.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

    See what I mean?

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,652 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2025 10:55AM

    It’s a shame that someone ruined a potentially nice coin. Yes, EF details. It’s a Cohen 8 which is the most common of the four spiked chin varieties. The diagnostic spot the bar running to the rim on the upright of the “R” on the reverse.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm... interesting discussion about which is the bigger detractor... cleaning vs. scratch. The two main factors I look for in early copper are surface condition (ie, no corrosion or roughness) and then color (ie, no old cleaning, recoloring, etc). Depending on where a scratch is on the coin, it may play less of roll in determining value than these other two characteristics...

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:
    Hmmm... interesting discussion about which is the bigger detractor... cleaning vs. scratch. The two main factors I look for in early copper are surface condition (ie, no corrosion or roughness) and then color (ie, no old cleaning, recoloring, etc). Depending on where a scratch is on the coin, it may play less of roll in determining value than these other two characteristics...

    The long scratch is a distraction, but it would not be a killer for a middling collector. Given that it’s most common Spiked Chin, a collector can be picky.

    The cleaning is a big deal. Coin doctors can re-tone it, but experienced collectors will spot that. The original surfaces are also compromised.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • goldengolden Posts: 10,398 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Harshly cleaned with a bad scratch.

  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    35 net 20

    Empty Nest Collection

  • RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 672 ✭✭✭✭

    @lkenefic said:
    Hmmm... interesting discussion about which is the bigger detractor... cleaning vs. scratch. The two main factors I look for in early copper are surface condition (ie, no corrosion or roughness) and then color (ie, no old cleaning, recoloring, etc). Depending on where a scratch is on the coin, it may play less of roll in determining value than these other two characteristics...

    I don't disagree, but for a different perspective, everything you mentioned - corrosion, roughness, color, scratches - are surface conditions. To that you can add luster, strike, and visible planchet defects. In fact, everything we use to determine the grade and eye-appeal of a coin is surface condition because that is what you see - no one sees "subsurface conditions."

    Grade, condition, aesthetic appeal, whatever you wish to call it is how coins are valued. For non-error coins, nothing else matters. It is up to the individual to relatively value luster vs, color vs. original surfaces vs. defects. Because I collect early US and therefore will own XF and down coins with minimal luster and some level of surface defects, I value original surfaces over strike, luster and defects. So, my "valuation order" is original skin, then strike, then luster, then net-out any defects.

    I'd much rather own a smooth, original, solid-strike XF45 with luster and defects consistent with grade over a slightly baggy, recolored or dipped MS63, regardless of strike. Those who collect coins readily available in higher grades are likely going to over-weight luster, strike, and lack of defects.

  • WorldCoinsDmitryWorldCoinsDmitry Posts: 371 ✭✭✭

    Thanks to all for the depth of insight, very much appreciated :)

    Highly enthusiastic about world coins, contemporary circulating counterfeits and unusual stuff <3

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 10,166 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2026 2:22PM

    XF details. The scratch distracts me a great deal more than the cleaning.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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