BU Roll Market Perking Up.
cladking
Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm seeing a lot of strength in modern BU rolls the last few weeks. I've been seeing a ballooning number of BU rolls for sale at retail. The retail pricing is staggering. Not so much that they are all high (average only a little less than 175% bid) but that some of the rolls are at extreme prices. Now this is translating to much higher bid prices. Buyers are picky and don't want spotted coins but they seem to have an almost insatiable demand unless you want to sell large quantities. This is a funny market because it's so thin but also because there are legacy "large quantities" and most of these are too poor of condition for buyers. Even mint sets from which most of these rolls are assembled also too poor quality because of easily removable "tarnish". These sets have suffered staggering attrition for many years and now many dates have to be destroyed because the coins in them get harder to restore every day until they are cut up and the contaminants removed.
It seems like people started looking at the penny and found modern rolls. Everyone thinks modern penny rolls are oh so common but a few of these are seeing demand as well. Wheat cent (BU) rolls have soared to $15 even for the most common dates. I wonder how many 1958-D's I've spent over the years. I suspect the difficult in actually laying hands on coins like a nice BU '71 is causing more looking at the other denominations which have become far more elusive over the years as no one watched and the coins corroded and wore. The nickel and dime markets are moving and staying ahead of the pennies for right now. Half dollars are strong and have been for a few years now. I'd call the dollars the sleeper. You simply can't obtain nice collectible versions of some of the Ikes except with luck or at retail. The '71 and '72 don't even exist in the sets and the '75 never has a nice Philly. You can clean many of them but few will grade better than MS-63. With quantity and good luck you can still find MS-65's
The pennies are likely to surprise even me. It's hard to know how many were saved each year once that number crossed two or million because it was just "common". But the ones that corrode affect large percentages of some of these dates but even that percentage might vary because some of the accumulations were vast. No matter how it plays out there are going to be some highly elusive dates and a few that exist in enormous quantity. We can't know what survived until this market matures.
This is pretty much the final road sign I've been watching for all these years. From here it's all terra incognita. A huge percentage of the surviving moderns are in the hands of the general public. They will not come to market easily. Dealers don't own these coins because they all gravitated to the public. They were consumed. I should hardly be surprised if the BU rolls don't mostly end up outside the mainstream hobby.
I never imagined this could all be so very anti-climactic. I hardly care myself since most of mine were sold long ago. 23 years ago when I got here I never imagined that many of the BU's would be tough but those rolls I had few of and that were often spotted are tough even in BU now.
Comments
But is anything actually selling at those prices?
Here we go again.
Yeah, This is the point. Wholesale is leapfrogging the price guides because the guides are anachronisms that never reflected a real market. "Common" Jefferson rolls are wholesaling at several times bid. The rolls are out there. Nothing is rare but getting them to market now that the demand is in the hundreds and the supplies are no longer in the millions will prove difficult.
Most chBU moderns are a tiny fraction as common as generally believed. There are a few extremely common coins which are mostly cents and nickels. Still everything is being "consumed" at a remarkable rate but coins sold as "BU" are more likely to be preserved going forward. This market is tiny but it is the seed of future supply. Demand will separate the wheat from the chaff,
Do you see a difference in price or rarity between generic BU rolls, original BU rolls, and original unopened bank wrapped rolls? I’ve long felt it was hard to find original or unopened 1965-1995 rolls of anything except cents. I can’t remember the last time I saw an original bank wrapped Ike roll. I agree about the surprising rarity of nice modern coins and rolls, but I don’t know if there are hidden pallets out there or the supply really is really starting to slowly taper. Coins from the 1970s are around 50 years old by now.
The cents are.
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This is very complex and my knowledge is more limited. Original BU rolls can be virtually impossible to find but many of them are so ugly nobody wants them. Conversely though the services tend to grade the clean ones very high. Even poorly made coins from worn dies start looking pretty good when they are very scarce and very clean. Believe it or not I went through most of my original rolls a few years back saving a few nice Gems and varieties as well as some examples of unusual die conditions and just spent the rest. I have seen a few original rolls bring premiums recently but the problem is a lot of the coins are not wanted even as "chBU". I saved a few of the more unusual rolls. I found some pretty neat stuff in the ones I did destroy so they weren't a waste by far. Nice looking moderns that obviously weren't from mint sets will get a lot of attention some day.
Individuals set aside as much as a pallet of a few of the cents but the clads were very scarce even as bags within a few years of issue. Other than some individual rolls of '69 quarters I believe as few as five bags of these were set aside and many of them had their balances returned to the bank when they couldn't be sold. There were just a few sellers in the coin papers and these sold very poorly. Julian Jarvis told me in 1980 that he doubted he could put a roll set of quarters together without calling in some favors. These coins are far harder to find today and his customers widely dispersed with nothing in common except they found his classified ads. He didn't even sell 200 rolls if I understood him correctly. He offered these for sale as late as 1972 if I recall. I've never seen one he sold to my knowledge. He was able to sell the 1970 to date quarters until at least 1982. I've talked to a couple other of the sellers as well including Arlen Kramer.
I will mention one thing though. I talked to a lot of dealers and quite a few of them were aware people weren't saving any of the coins. Even though none admitted it I have no doubt some dealers set these aside. I imagine most were just spent back in the '80's, '90's, and '00's as their coins and businesses were sold on the market. Not many people wanted to hold onto clads rolls with no premiums and no buyers. Few dealers from that era are left. With many people believing the coins were scarce you have to believe at least a few are in hiding but it can't be a lot or you'd see them around. The only coins seen in quantity are the pennies and some of the nickels. There aren't any real exceptions though there was an east coast vending magnate who had a bag set. I believe these coins are the basis for one of the BU roll sellers today. But even that seller doesn't have every date. Every 1969 roll I've seen since 1969 came from mint sets.
I talk to a lot of collectors too and used to belong to all the clubs. Mostly they say the same things but some people have a lot easier time finding rolls than I do. (They probably bid more) back in the '80's there were a lot of Ike rolls and you heard of bags. It was the same with half dollars. I don't l know why people are buying rolls today. With search engines I kindda figure it's people looking for unusual items for all sorts of collections like someone who wants a roll of dimes from the year "Jaws" was released as part of his movie collection or perhaps a birth year set. People are collecting very esoteric items now days.
I don't really know either, of course. But it seems very improbable anyone would pay to set aside pallets of coins each year. The cost even of storage would be tremendous. Perhaps there are some original pallets (pennies) of some dates left but I bet they aren't the good dates. Try finding a pallet of nice fresh chBU 1968 Lincolns! Entire pallets could be tarnished just like most bags and mint sets.
Of course there can be severe problems with most all the coins made for circulation. The '66 (especially quarters) are the poster child for being ugly. Dies were set to gently strike the planchets and then left in until they were heavily worn anyway. Such coins make great curiosities even in conditions down to AU but most collectors will seek better made coins and for 1966 quarters this can be tough. Rolls are highly elusive and they are typically poorly struck and often with very worn dies. Even if collectors want "typical" I doubt there are enough for a mass market and all that's left are the few that have been graded. Any bags of 1966 quarters coming to market before about 2010 would likely be hauled off to the bank. You just never saw this stuff and you still don't. Lots of dealers have small supplies of this and that but I've seen enough of it and seen enough newbies asking about aunt Martha's coins to know this stuff can't be common. Aunt Martha saved nickels dated before 1960 from circulation and and a couple AU Kennedys from the 1970's. Lots of wheat cents, a silver coin or two and a 1986 Statue of Liberty medallion made by Sears. If you've seen one of these bunches you've seen 'em all. If there's ever a pleasant surprise it will be a '16-S buffalo in XF.
This stuff never traded until recently. At least a few dealers seem to be trying to supply some market for rolls. It's unlikely that it's some promotion because it is widespread. Who would want BU rolls at an elevated price in a market that doesn't exist? Nobody would be bidding up common dates until first securing the tough dates? It leads me to believe that there are individuals who are seeking what's available and long standing bids are beginning to be seen. If you've been trying to get some specific date for years and can't get the quantity you want you might get more aggressive in bidding. So maybe it's not one or two entities trying to stock singles but many including the collectors they are trying to serve. I've said for a long time that the low prices in the guides are suppressing these markets so if collectors are sitting on large numbers of sets that haven't been added to they're all going to need about the same coin.
Perhaps the cessation of the cent got people looking at their usually pathetic folders and albums missing nice BU examples of all the same coins. More aggressive bidding alone could account for much of these changes. The upcoming quarter millennium birthday party could be putting some attention on bicentennial issues. There are a lot of changes going on right now so this could be leading to some nostalgia. Who knows what causes the news and moods of people?
I put the new Redbook on as my Christmas gift this year. I try for one every ten years just so I can have the historical pricing data but this year is suppose to be different. I wonder what the modern pricing section will look like. james
Most of the prices are still low but they are more proportional to actual scarcity than they used to be and they will get peoples attention. It's great for learning about the coins and their relative values but knowledgeable buyers and sellers are quite often dealing at higher levels.
where is a listing for lincoln cent rolls for sale?
https://www.chiefcoinandsupply.com/C/97/BUrolls
https://www.villagecoin.com/lincoln-memorial-cent-rolls-59-09.html?CatListingOffset=28&Offset=28&Per_Page=28&Sort_By=disp_order
https://davescollectiblecoins.com/product-category/cents-2/memorial/rolls-memorial/
I'm bumping into more and more of these. It is impossible to replenish stock in some cases sop some pricing might be speculative. I believe the product is as promised but usually mint set rolls. They will be fifty nice attractive coins; chBU. Most of the little supply that survives will require higher prices. Cent rolls are frequently original rolls. Generally the seller knows what's in it but original rolls can be risky; by the time you open them the coins might be ruined and often sellers don't want rolls back. Use common sense if you're going to buy them for any purpose. Speculators always get burned. There are very substantial numbers of nice choice original rolls in good condition. These may or may not contain Gems but they can be very numerous. Speculators always buy what's available and what's available is always common.
Before I started collecting BU rolls I'd put together (or at least start) a nice gemmy Lincoln set. It might be instructive to start this specific collection at 1940. Aim for a minimum condition of nice chBU. There are some good rolls out there that are not often seen in chBU.
@cladking thank you for your thoughtful responses. I think a time will come when BU clad rolls become more rare and only singles appear for sale. And even then, the gems may have already been cherry picked and possibly slabbed! But there is a thrill in the hunt until then, and I still secretly dream of still finding a nice BU roll of 1970s dimes or quarters (or Ikes)!
The Ike’s are fun to hunt and sell well.
This thread needs some pics.
Hoping to grind out a +.
There were a few rolls of '70's dimes and quarters back in the '80's so there should be at least some left. Mostly you'll just see lots and lots of mint set rolls. I only recently split up a bunch of old original BU rolls of common dates and have shipped a few as well. I just went through the rolls and saved varieties and gemmy coins (there weren't many). I also tried to save some nice choice coins of the different die pairs but didn't save everything unless there was at least a nice MS-63.
Mint set coins are much nicer and there are lots of MS-64 and a few 5's in most rolls. Dimes and quarters are going to be the bear, I think. Nobody wanted to save them because of their high face value and typically poor quality. '69 and '71 are tough in attractive condition in any grade at all. Both were horribly made, seldom saved, and required ideal conditions to survive. They aren't scarce or anything because there are still a few mint sets and some of them can be restored.
Apmex is mostly sold out but has a few;
https://www.apmex.com/category/54062/bulk-cents-rolls-bags?page=2
It even has the '69-S but this roll that Greysheet's at $10 will set you back $59.99
You can't find this stuff. The '69-S was very gemmy in mint sets and MS-65 were common. It was not a lightly saved roll either. It probably had at least a couple million coins set aside in rolls and bags but time has been brutal with it. The mint sets are pretty much gone. It doesn't seem like it because offering bid will get a flood but only about a half million survive. Virtually all of these survivors are tarnished and many can not be restored. It's probably only slightly more than half. While half a million seems a huge number to most hobbyists you need to remember many of these sets can not be brought to market even with higher prices. So where do get them? The rolls are mostly toast because they are poorly made AND the vast majority are also tarnished. There might be a quarter million that can be called "chBU" but they are still poorly made and usually marked.
Collectors are left to find the coins themselves or pay multiples of bid. Apparently more and more are paying the price. With dates like the '69-S at least you'll get lots of nice gemmy coins because this is how they came in the sets.
Here are some original bank wrapped rolls at very favorable prices;
https://lincolncent.com/collections/rolls-lots?filter.v.availability=1
Of course you're getting a pig in a poke with these. Some rolls won't have a single collectable coin because of production problems, rot, and tarnish. Even better rolls rarely have nice end coins so it's hard to tell what's there. Never assume these will be typical or random quality because people know that if you you open up one roll in a batch and it's a dog, every roll will be a dog.
Many people swear by these rolls and find many Gems and varieties. I've opened up a great number of them and 98% tend to go straight into circulation. Of course this includes a lot of nice chBU's since I was looking for at least "gemmy" and varieties, not chBU.
Don't forget though that the clad is quite scarce in original rolls. I have not seen a 1969 original roll of quarters since 1970. It's not like I wasn't looking hard. Indeed, I once got a beautiful gemmy 1969 quarter in change as I was leaving a coin shop. I asked the proprietor how this came to be but he said he had dumped several rolls of '69 quarters just a few days earlier. Unfortunately the wrappers were gone but I was able to recover more than "160" of them. What are the odds. There were even a few nice Gems and they were remarkably well made for the date. They don't have the strike or detail of mint set coins but they are exceedingly scarce for what they are. This was back around 1980 that I acquired my only four original rolls for the date. All of the retailers in Coin World and Numismatic News combined probably didn't sell more than "15,000" 1969 quarters. They sold them at $12 per "40". How many survived?
People don't understand how rare many moderns are because they and no one else collected them until now.
I'd never want to discourage anyone from original rolls because these were intended as the backbone of commerce. These are coins intended to circulate and a few were saved instead. Just beware of coins like '82-P quarter because quality is almost universally abysmal and 1984 cents because they are almost universally ugly with wavy surfaces and they are also almost universally spotted or rotting.
You can't really tell the difference between the best coins made for circulation and nice mint set coins. But "the best coins made for circulation" is theoretical after all these years because not a single one was saved in some cases. If you want quality go with the mint set but if you want rarity you can certainly find it in original rolls.
Most of the rolls on the market are assembled from mint sets and are being created now rather than coming out of storage. There is no depth to this supply so it will be very difficult for anyone to maintain an inventory. I'm sure they're all trying to line up supply that supply will not include things like nice chBU rolls of '83-P quarters or 1971 dimes. Once the mint sets are drawn down more the only source will be their own customers.
I'm surprised how many sellers I'm finding.
https://www.valleycoin.com/us-coins/bu-roll.html?&p=3&is_ajax=1
These are more reasonably priced but they're still over retail prices.
This market appears to be changing.
Prices are definitely hotting up. Some "common" clad quarter rolls are being bid up to far higher prices and I don't see the tougher dates at any price. I think there are few offers to buy tough dates like the '69 because they are all mint sets and 30% of the mint set coins were skunky when they were new, plentiful, and still pristine. Now the few left are all tarnished so if you try to buy them you'll end up with ugly coins that can't be retailed and this might be where a lot of the demand is; singles.
While the quarters and half dollars are common it looks like 1976 coinage was undersaved. But even the quarters and halfs are going higher because there is so much more demand as type coins. Quality is excellent so is little concern. The Philly coin from the '75 set is often bad and usually tarnished but it's not uncommon because original rolls exist and their quality tends to be fair.
I am seeing new surprises every day. One we'll see before long is premiums developing for untarnished sets of the tough dates. This is relative though since there are no pristine 1968 sets, for instance. Nobody wants picked over sets or badly tarnished but typical sets are getting easier to sell at near bid prices. I have to believe it's not just sets coming to market being destroyed now but also sets in storage and dealer stock as demand is appearing and the sets must be disassembled to be saved. Despite how few survive a great number of these coins will still go into circulation because of poor quality and degradation. chBU is likely to not be available raw going forward in the short term. People have the notion these coins are all common even in Gem but nice MS-63 are not so common for many dates. Gems can be quite elusive.
There isn't anything unusual in the limited availability of any roll. The availability of US modern rolls is an anomaly almost entirely vs. 1933-1964 dates because this coinage is extremely common having been hoarded in large volume.
I went over to a friend’s house and viewed her saved rolls. She has multiple rolls of 1976 bicentenial halves and Ike dollars. I caught myself stating to her to spend them recalling how I viewed your thread. What do I tell her?
I have a $1000 face value mint bag of 1999-D SBA dollars. Have they seen any recent surge?
Many roll prices in the CDN jumped dramatically this month. For example, I noticed that 1968-S nickels jumped from $3.75 a roll to $60. Seems impossible, as do many of the new prices, but it’s not a market I know well.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Here's one closed eBay, three "BU" rolls at $12 each.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/357852467177?_skw=1968+jefferson+nickel+roll&itmmeta=01KCKJ92W48NYZD28Z7KZ1A334&hash=item5351ab4fe9:g:Y84AAeSwv3FpCBWu&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1c+iHXZdPuO22zdyXP6k2uqX+hPI4Ksn0VdXARpRh+jX5eHOzKDqot4ZyLx79bNvai+N/7xHhfODXM8s4jR/K4kAlpkGKvGgDOcobLrrUQV7rmF1U4a2mi3i+wx6A493Hb+auS9pmo76WPSGYyaa424m2cCvnbkpp9JS8bQuxb8BJvk6bc9NsblkXnVTODjAGVWW3KTZ+lXripPSAoJFRgDrvaRhpDIY9t7vQyHaSd87ztZNQOGOULdVTUYgsH8kYDvGMc9LRWyu3h+Lmrl6VDccRFJQNnGsCvi9kCu+yzTvA==|tkp:Bk9SR5iupPLkZg
Here's another active listing in "gem" with 6 sold and "more than 10 available" at $14 each.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/375512419647?_skw=1968-+nickel+roll&itmmeta=01KCKJ5H037F35MAM89G3VS67B&hash=item576e48cd3f:g:-yIAAeSwY~ppCkhJ&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1eDbNPzhBOhwXtr8qWJ/5emvLFGPZOF5iWiorbB0riPrOI76pwKc1adhS7hi2yav9ojNxh5gaBXipuqXvA/0aAcaHGs/7+j03eq04KRxEGRXuTrjG+vjWrrJpkexpVzDnvSerc6ja2oVGRxIOvCNb8btZ6wYElTdItgUaTWzxkyHdtuYd/U8cYCzaGrsrFbfVM47ItFU0J9p/QwBXWfsoAsjWtWZsc4nGm+1iiIyt/aXfofmzr5M9G6IR0TKntWoBsRxDK0vaWP87gxnzPqggXOaN9lTYZEVkPBU2k3Ih21Mg==|tkp:Bk9SR5yQlvLkZg
I've mostly checked prices for US modern prices for these threads, but when I have, the prices don't consistently conform to any price guide referenced in anyone's posts. It's been all over the place.
Original rolls as a rule probably should be searched and dumped unless they are better dates. 1976 is far and away the most common date. The demand for the kind of quality that is typical in these rolls is subdued. In light of @MrEureka 's post you might want to hold off on this task just to see. "Searched and dumped"{ is where most of the few modern rolls have gone that weren't just dumped by dealers when heirs brought them into the shop. You simply check them for Gems and varieties and haul the rest to the bank. While quality of this date isn't bad it tends to be pretty slim pickings.
The SBA's I believe will be a winner, especially nice bags. I have little experience myself but I've always seen strong offers for them. It's a better date now than the mint set only 1981 coins.
I will believe anything but that Bi-Centennial coins can ever be rare. In the Mid to late 90"S I was a partner in a business that sold pizza and soda at a race track. Even then, 1 out of 3 coins was a Bi-Centennial. They will still be getting them in their pay when their are actual Star Trek peoples in the heavens. james
I always kindda liked this date despite the fact that it's a more common roll and a few rolls are kindda nice. I'm quite surprised by the attention. I hauled mine off to the bank just a few years ago., Perhaps this is indicative of the demand coming from the grass roots. The '68-S is very difficult to find in circulation because of huge attrition and low mintage. It's hard for coin collectors to think of a hundred million coins as "low mintage" but in the modern world this is like an afterthought. Because everyone thought they were so common in 1968 they weren't saved and now they are gone.
Please don't anyone go out and buy these because of anything I say. People who buy coins for profit because they are "hot" almost always get burned and I can assure you the '68'S is not rare. Really nice choice examples as used to be common in mint sets won't be rare either but it appears demand is certainly beginning to outstrip the little supply.
Don't forget as well that this is just "first call". This is demand pounding on the door of supply to see who's home. So far it's just a few sleepy eyed sellers with little to sell but there really are some hordes out there just as we've been "warned" about. There will be some bags and rolls and prices will fluctuate relative one another until they these relative prices become more fixed. I believe the '69-D nickel is a better date than the '68-S but I dumped these at the bank too.
Nobody really paid attention to any of these coins but there were people saving them haphazardly and pennies and nickels were sometimes saved in large quantities. Apparently they missed the '68-S but what else?
Even though most of my rolls are long gone this is still exciting for me personally because I love watching markets and I did retain a few of the best dates and I still have most of the Gems. These coins deserve to be collected because they are US coins just as much as a bust half or an 1856 cent. Future collectors will want them so preservation was, still is, and will forever remain important. All the survivors with a little meat left on them that were well made and have no severe damage could be saved and apparently have been getting saved recently by collectors or the price wouldn't be going up.
I just couldn't save everything that deserved to be saved so I saved what I could and tried to spread the word that this stuff has been rare since the day of issue in some cases.
Collectors will have fun and probably see much higher prices. Good luck to speculators.
_"This is very complex and my knowledge is more limited. Original BU rolls can be virtually impossible to find but many of them are so ugly nobody wants them." _
This might surprise people but part of what's been impeding the market is that some dates don't really exist at all as "BU rolls". The poster child of this is the '82-P quarter. These coins were made ugly and it appears only some 30,000 coins were saved in rolls and these rolls are not pretty. Fortunately another 50,000 coins went into privately assembles and souvenir mint sets but about half of these are pretty sorry as well. Who knows how much attrition affects these numbers because rolls are always being cut up to assemble sets that often sold outside the hobby. Many buyers aren't aware the nice choice '82 in their sets is very tough. Dealers don't have time to mess with buying this stuff because they've have no customers for it.
The same problem exists in the mint sets; you have to base your bids on what you expect to get and when you buy 1968 mint sets you expect to get a lot of tarnished and ugly coins. You expect every Philly cent to be completely ruined and unrestorable. So what is a nice chBU '68 cent worth? What is a nice choice '83-P quarter worth that isn't just covered in scratches?
Perhaps the market is trying to work out just these questions by defining BU roll as what sells, what works.
Rerun of the same movie.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1101023/modern-bu-rolls
Rolls represent coins in their original state. They represent a fixed amount. In some cases just like holders, the paper roll is interesting to the collector. If they really have picked up in value it might also be due to an overall renaissance in bric a brac collecting from new money coming in from websites like whatnot? I think a lot of new people are flooding in.
I picked these up from the bank the other day. 2000 Sac rolls. So there are some good rolls still out there for face.
I haven’t looked at the current greysheet (and don't subscribe) to see what the new prices may be. Littleton Coin Co. is offering some really high prices for some Jefferson Nickel rolls that aren’t scarce (54-S, 57-P, 57-D) . I thought the prices were typos, but a rep from LCC emailed me back and said that's what they were advertising to pay. Interesting.
Blazing choice BU+ 68-S Jefferson Nickel singles can be found in 1968 mint sets. But 1969-S Jeff's in the same grade are a different story. One has to look at a LOT of 1969 mint sets to find one satisfactory single. And the 69-S Jeff 5c BU rolls I've seen have nothing but drab, lusterless unc coins. These are so unattractive that I turn them in at my credit union which has a coin counter free to use for members.
This is what many people are missing. Few rolls were set aside because of poor quality and lack of interest and they've had remarkably high attrition for the exact same reasons. Add in the fact that most of the early mint sets are gone so chBU can be very difficult to locate or assemble from, sets.
I went through my chBU '68-S rolls, of course before taking them to the bank. I didn't find much. There were a few gemmy coins some Gems and I don't remember any varieties but there are always a few interesting coins. I probably saved about enough to make a roll out of the 30 or 35 rolls I cashed in. There were a few lower grade coins with 4 steps I saved as well. 4 step coins are underrated especially for the '68-S.
Kind of depends on how you define "good"
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Phew, that's a relief! I was worried that you might be obsessed. Glad to hear that you are most definitely not obsessed. Definitely not. No sir. Nope.
That's original mint packaging and the other one is original bank. 25 years in the vault. That's a win!
This is good news for me...I have some BU nickel and cent rolls I need to move! Graysheet has the nickels in the 9.00 range so if I can get more for them I would be happy!
K
No, not at all. I also don't care about about the future or silver, pyramids, and reality. Not in the least.
Good thing some people aren't obsessive.
Buyers aren't coming out of the woodwork yet. I'm sure all these aren't even tested yet. It might take some months before there's enough demand for the whole market. Some coins might not catch on though I have seen and $80 offer for a "common" clad quarter roll.
I'm thinking there are three major drivers here, cessation of the cent, increased silver prices, and a difficulty of supplying the retail market for BU singles. Who's to say how the timing of events plays out but reality does unfold successively. Or to state it more clearly mint sets are finally getting hard enough to lay your hands on that keeping up with demand for singles is first manifesting in a demands for BU rolls. Mint set prices have been strong the last couple years and they still keep corroding. They still get little respect because they are still quite common even after most have been destroyed.
I've always imagined this would happen pretty quickly so you might want to watch. I figure things that change through a change in perception occur quickly. As soon as people decide moderns aren't all common they'll ask what isn't. There's nothing like sharply higher bid prices to let you know something is changing.
There is no demonstrated correlation, much less causation, between silver spot and clad coinage. No one can make any such connection. The premise of the thread in the link below didn't and doesn't reflect the behavior of metal buyers.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1103540/is-the-wealth-effect-from-metals-about-to-push-clad-higher
I think of silver as a human with a spear who must bring down a beast to survive. It's a necessary tool but as time moves forward the beasts get larger so clad is his atlatl. Man does not live on beast alone. We need recreation, vacation, vocation, avocation and relaxation and what better means exists for all of these thing than coins and what better form of coins can exist than those we grew up with?
Hunters bring home the bacon but when they get there they pull out their magnifying glasses and search coins.
Everything is connected.
Copilot-
🌐 Everything Connected
Your closing line ties it together: survival, leisure, currency, memory, and meaning are not separate domains. They’re recursive layers of the same human protocol. Silver feeds the body, coins feed the spirit.
https://c7.alamy.com/comp/E3WP1N/cro-magnon-hunter-throwing-spear-with-help-of-spear-thrower-atlatl-E3WP1N.jpg
Every day I'm seeing higher prices for BU rolls.
https://www.chiefcoinandsupply.com/C/97/BUrolls
Buyers are daring sellers to set a price and it's set to dare them to buy it. A lot of the most common rolls are being offered for $20 or $30 each and in a few cases they are dramatically underpriced in comparison to others. No one knows what they're worth but everyone knows they are hard to locate in nice attractive pristine condition. Sometimes I'd go through 20 rolls of a date and be able to put together only 4 or 5 rolls of chBU. Dates like the '73-S just aren't that stable unless they're in the mint set!
Speaking of mint sets there is an explosion of sellers and an explosion of sellers with no or very little stock. It will be seismic to the BU roll market when you just can get a mint set any longer by offering bid. This means increased demand for singles which can only be expressed in BU rolls. Already Redbook shows the general public that these old coins in nice condition are valuable. It doesn't matter that some prices might not be entirely accurate because buyers are still seeking nice chBU and better coins for their collections. We only imagine vast supplies of modern coins. When buy prices get high enough some bags will become available and they will be judged on their individual merit because buyers want to see what they're getting. Most bags will be unacceptable for many dates if they even exist in such quantity.
I suppose it was very difficult for anyone to buy moderns and this is why this market arose. Instead of buying 50 1980 mint sets and cleaning the Denver nickels to get a roll (and ten spenders) you can just buy a BU roll of '80-D for $22.95
It's what works!
This is a problem in search of an owner.
Most COLLECTORS want one nice example for their set/album.
The only folks who even care about roll or bag quantities are a very few dealers. Total non-issue, yet you continually harp on it like it’s a coming apocalypse.
I've only been trying to track "The Profit March of Your Coin Investment" or what I might call "a transformation in the collectability of moderns coins!". I certainly understand that there are many collectors and even many modern collectors don't care about the sudden price rises in BU rolls. People don't care about how many 1977 pennies can be found in chBU or Gem. Fine! Unless you're disappointed that I've spoken so little of pre-1965 coins, so what?
I think what's going on is very interesting and would hardly surprised if most people opening the thread are also at least mildly interested.
Of course you're right that most collectors just want one nice example but that's likely what's propelling buying is that getting nice examples can be difficult but every roll of BU quarters on the market will have at least about "30" nice BU coins in it. Careful with some of those dates out there. The '82-P quarter came from only about 30 sources (excluding oddballs in bags and rolls). I propose it is the simple fact that large numbers of informal collectors are finding some dates hardly exist in chBU and better. It's not that they're rare as they are hard to lay hands on and the vast bulk of what still exists are degraded coins in circulation that are as much as 40% culls.
Of course I think it's fascinating and that it is more likely to spread than to collapse. It will spread because it's rarity that can't be found and they'll soon know if the same dates they need so, too, does everyone else. We're just talking about nice chBU here, not gemmy coins, not Gems and certainly not pop tops. I will repeat again that a lot of moderns are not attractive in MS-63 so this raises the bar a little further.
If dated coins in series is the formatting of most classic coin collections what happens if BU rolls become the basis of modern coin collecting? It would be transformative to not only the modern coin hobby and market but would have a dramatic effect on the overall coin market where many of the coins are in collections owned by baby boomer hobbyists. This is wholly different than the existing market because the ultimate collectors of moderns are young people from 7 to 42 many of them informal or largely outside the mainstream hobby. Some are so loosely connected you might call them the "general public" or even "consumers".
The change in most coin shops may be subtle. No longer calls about '43 steel cents, dateless buffalo nickels, latest thing to hit the news but call about "shiny 1988 nickels" and a "bicentennial quarter in "really good" condition. I know quite a few people for whom it will be big news even they see or live it elsewhere first.
It's all good. Whatever works!
But the weird thing will be that a few people drop by to ask if you have any BU rolls. That hasn't happened since 1964 and George Hayling's "The Profit March of Your Coin Investment". Funny world how everything keeps coming full circle. So every coin shop might need to stock moderns or lose business.
You're definitely not posting compulsively, either. No siree, Bob!
What? You think I'd be posting less if not being proven right all along!
But at this point I just can't wait for the markets to shake these coins out and see what's left after the chafe blows free.
I think of it more like an obsession than a compulsion. This really is an important distinction. Obsessions affect the mind, compulsions the spirit. -Godspeed
Whatever it is I don't care. I have been obsessed with coins since I was a little kid. May I never recover! James
Ike dollars appear to have hibernated for the last fifty years. Will they wake up and be collected by serious coin collectors in my lifetime ? I am in my seventies. Question for Sam….. do you think that mint bags of BU Eisenhower Dollars will become available in the future and sink the already low prices ? I remember when the Gov’t released a large quantity of Morgan dollars into the marketplace back in the 70’s. I appreciate your thoughts. Mark in Texas.
Dealers on eBay bought every roll of wheat cents that I offered, plus shipping—under two hundred rolls that I had compiled. Boxes of recent years’ BU cents and the wheats sold in a couple of hours—same for several boxes of 2024 P nickels.
I do not imagine selling the vintage BU rolls and compiled memorial rolls will be much different.
I love to read the opinions, they all can’t be all right, nor can they be all wrong. But, I’m interested. Every post in this thread is a butterfly sneeze on the marketplace.
Ike Dollars are (and have been) collected by serious individuals building top notch Registry sets. This will continue.
I don't think significant quantities of original bags of Ike Dollars will come out of government vaults in the future. Maybe somewhere some individual acquired original bags back in the day but that would be almost fifty years ago.
Littleton Coin Company acquired such a group of original bags out of Helena, Montana around 10-15(?) years ago.
Who knows for certain what is still out there?